Beaux is famous..... :)

Everyone knows Beaux, my black computer literate labrador. He is now famous! Jason the admin at Best in Breed ask if I could use the picture he picked up at FF of Beaux and I gave him permission. He has since joined the ranks of FF. Please welcome him, we look for Jason to initiate more dog discussion at FF.

Timba says she is jealous as she is so beautiful and no body has noticed her!! Grrrrr.....

Ice Queen said:

Timba says she is jealous as she is so beautiful and no body has noticed her!! Grrrrr.....

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I'll betcha Dargo has and is just very shy!

Ice Queen said:

Timba says she is jealous as she is so beautiful and no body has noticed her!! Grrrrr.....

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That is a nice painting of her. GSD all the way

Jason B Bour
bestinbreed.org

I'll bet that Snowball could kick Beux's arse (English for ass)

B_Skurka said:

I'll bet that Snowball could kick Beux's arse (English for ass)

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Bob, are you mellowing?

First time I've seen you call Snowball Snowball!

Adorable. Make sure to sign up and post that one in the gallery

Jason B Bour
http://bestinbreed.org

jim slagle said:

Bob, are you mellowing?

First time I've seen you call Snowball Snowball!

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Well I would refer to him by his true name: Crapweasel
But since Anita posted to this thread I don't think she needs to hear that salty language


Jason . . . welcome to the Forums. Crapweasel is really a mean little shit of a dog but my wife loves him. Of the 4 dogs in our house, he is the meanest nastiest little beast on 4 legs. My Akita even runs from him, and she is more than happy to kill any intruding rabbits, raccoons, and other animals that enter 'her' yard.

B_Skurka said:

I'll bet that Snowball could kick Beux's arse (English for ass)

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Beaux's a lover not a fighter ..........

I want to let everyone know that this forum is not just for show people, but all dog lovers. Most everyone who has joined is in the show community, and they are the ones using it the most, but this forum is concerned about all dog issues and for all dog owners.

Jason B Bour
http://bestinbreed.org

I'd join, but I am certain that your show dog people wouldn't want to hear from a pet shop owner. They are the aristocrats..........

Timba says thank you for the compliments, but she is not a pure GSD - she is third generation timber wolf crossed with alsation - hence Timba! Full name is Timba Fluffikins Woolfie, well she hasn't got a kennel name and she didn't want to be left out!

Anita, what is an Alsation? I thought I was pretty familiar with dog breeds but that one is new to me.

Alsatian, same as a German Shepherd isn't it?

EDIT - link

Ice Queen said:

Timba says thank you for the compliments, but she is not a pure GSD - she is third generation timber wolf crossed with alsation - hence Timba! Full name is Timba Fluffikins Woolfie, well she hasn't got a kennel name and she didn't want to be left out!

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You do not have to be pureabreed to join the forum, and there is a section for mixed breeds. I will be working more on the site this weekend so I do not scare away mixed breed owners.

Jason B Bour
http://bestinbreed.org

Yes Mith you are correct I think, Alsation is another name for German Shepherd Dogs. It may be that the original name became unpopular during the last war or it may be that there is a subtle difference between GSDs and Alsations, I really don't know, but anyway Timba is the best!

Junkman said:

I'd join, but I am certain that your show dog people wouldn't want to hear from a pet shop owner. They are the aristocrats..........

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Pet shop owners who do not promote puppy mills are fine.

Jason B Bour
bestinbreed.org

You paint with a very wide brush. There are some breeders that "you" might call a puppy mill, that are very good at what they do. Not everyone wants to buy a show dog, but might want to own a particular breed. My Old English Sheepdog came from a puppy mill, and I dare say that her pedigree from the second generation to the tenth generation was far Superior to many of the "show" breeders. In fact, a person from a show kennel purchased one of her pups who later went on to becoming a champion. Get your panties in a wad if you want, but there are a lot of honest and good people that breed dogs in what you call a puppy mill, but I call a honest business.

It is not about buying a show dog or not. Shows are to see if the dog meets breed standards, and to strive to improve the breed by reducing the amount of gentic problems in a breed. German Shepherds for example are prone to Hip Displaycia, so you only want to buy from a breeder who has their dogs tested and certified. Also a breeder has a breeding program, and has buyers for the pups before they are even whelped. Breeders have to meet a certain standard of breeding.

There is not much profit in breeding, and most breeders that might charge so much for a dog is because of the high costs to breed dogs. Puppy mills goal is to increase profits by reducing cost. The quality of dog is not important, but the amount sold is. Puppies are taken away too early to wean to get them the the pet shops young enough to sell.

Instead of getting into a debate look up unbiased facts. Call the vets in your area, check with the American Vet Assoc., check with the ASPCA. Ask about the conditions these dogs are whelped, heath risks, genetic disorders, etc...

bestinbreed said:

It is not about buying a show dog or not. Shows are to see if the dog meets breed standards, and to strive to improve the breed by reducing the amount of gentic problems in a breed. German Shepherds for example are prone to Hip Displaycia, so you only want to buy from a breeder who has their dogs tested and certified. Also a breeder has a breeding program, and has buyers for the pups before they are even whelped. Breeders have to meet a certain standard of breeding.

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Please tell me where I can find these standards in print form. Read about Dargo's German Shepard and his problems.... Is buying from a breeder that has had their dogs tested and certified a guarantee that the puppy that you purchase is not going to have Hip Dysplasia??? No, no one can guarantee this!! I love your comment "Also a breeder has a breeding program, and has buyers for the pups before they are even whelped." Sure they do, they breed as often as they can to fill the orders that they have, and when there is no people waiting in line, they stop breeding. Is that your "breeding program"? That it the breeding program of some of the breeders that I know. Will any of these "breeders" pay the $6,000 (approximately) that it will cost to repair the dogs hips if the buyer gets a dog with hip Dysplasia? I doubt it, and I also know that the most that they will do is to put the dog down and give you a replacement, "when they have one available". That translates to after all the rest of the litter is sold and they have one left over. If people purchase a puppy in a "pet shop", there are specific laws governing illness and genetic problems and how they are dealt with financially. Another thing that "breeders" don't have to deal with. With a "pet shop", you have the power of the State Attorney General to enforce the State law. With a breeder, your best bet is small claims court, and even then, those chances aren't very good. Breeders aren't licensed or inspected by the State, but pet shops are!

There is not much profit in breeding, and most breeders that might charge so much for a dog is because of the high costs to breed dogs. Puppy mills goal is to increase profits by reducing cost. The quality of dog is not important, but the amount sold is. Puppies are taken away too early to wean to get them the the pet shops young enough to sell.

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It is obvious that you don't know what your are talking about, because almost every state has laws and regulations on how old a dog has to be if it is sold in a pet shop. Breeders made sure to have themselves exempted from these requirements. Also, pet shops have to have meticulous health records on puppies that they sell. Once again, breeders are exempt from this requirement. What you call "puppy mills" are required to be licensed by the Federal Government U.S. Department of Agriculture. Once again, your breeders are not subject to this requirement. The "puppy mills" are also subject to both Federal and State inspections, breeders are not. You say that "There is not much profit in breeding, and most breeders that might charge so much for a dog is because of the high costs to breed dogs." Where did you ever get this notion from, because it just isn't true. The bulk of money that "breeders" spend is on going to the shows and competing. If they don't get ribbons, then they can't charge the high price for the dog. The people that breed puppies for pet shops are also in business, just like "your breeders". They both have to turn a profit, or neither can continue breeding.

Instead of getting into a debate look up unbiased facts. Call the vets in your area, check with the American Vet Assoc., check with the ASPCA. Ask about the conditions these dogs are whelped, heath risks, genetic disorders, etc...

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I may have a bias, but your bias is severely clouded by incorrect facts. My bias is to keep the truth flowing, yours is to bury the truth with innuendo and lies. I can't check with "the American Vet Assoc." because there is no such organization. Possibly you might have meant, the AVMA??? (American Veterinary Medical Association). You did forget to mention AAHA (American Animal Hospital Association). I am certain that neither of these organizations would make a blanket biased statement like you have. There are as many bad breeders as there are bad puppy mills. On the other side of that coin, there are also lots of reputable breeders and puppy mills, as you prefer to call them. Just like there are lots of good websites such as Forums Forums, and then there are biased websites that promote a particular political agenda.

I didn't just start in this business yesterday, I have been involved with it for longer than you have been on this earth. I also have been intimately involved with breeders of all types during this time. I was involved first hand in the initial retail marketing of the second largest selling premium dog food in the country, (Hills is the first) and on a first name basis with the originator. I also know that to paint any industry with a broad negative paintbrush like you have is wrong........ very wrong.

PS....... the correct spellings are DYSPLASIA and GENETIC

Junkman said:

If buying from a breeder that has had their dogs tested and certified a guarantee that the puppy that you purchase is not going to have Hip Dysplasia??? No, no one can guarantee this!!

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Please elaborate, all my lab pups have come with hip, elbow and eye guarantee. Now this doesn't mean the dog won't develop either ailment but it does quarantee that if it develops in the first two years you have options (stated in the agreement when purchase is made) to replace or refund. It is at my expense to have the dog x-rayed at 2 years old typically, but if hip dyslasia is found I have options as agreed upon!

The "If" should have been "Is"..... typographical error.... I will correct.

As I said, no one, can guarantee that the dog won't develop problems. Your guarantee just says what they will do if problems happen. If you select a replacement, or refund, will they allow you to keep the dog that you have become lovingly attached to? Everyone of the contracts that I have seen in the past, that is one of the requirements for refund or replacement. When you ask the breeder what will become of the dog, they will tell you that it will be put down. How many people will give up the pet to see it destroyed, when it might be subject to treatment? I have no way of knowing what your particular breeder has offered, so it might be different. Just like having purchased a dog from a breeder that has OFA certificates on both sire and dam, doesn't guarantee that the pup won't develop Hip Dysplasia.

If you want to learn more about Hip Dysplasia, here is an excellent explanation with drawings.

May I suggest going to Petsmart if anyone is looking for an animal?

They have made a decision that with the overwhelming numbers of unwanted animals out there to work with animal rescue groups to find homes for animals without homes. They also have grant programs and other fundraising events for those organizations as well.

Breeders? I love the people that sell animals out of their car in the parking lots of pet shops.

I also had a guy who wanted to buy our American Staffshire Terrier at Petsmart (who was up for adoption) because he told me he wanted to breed pit bull pups (he had a mullet which was the first no no), and if he would of actually read, he would of known she was spayed.

I love all the adds from the "breeders" in the weekly "thrifty nickel" with "AKC papers".

I also get a kick out of the people who think that the more money they spend on a dog, the "better" it has to be (take my word for it, not always the case, that I do know for a fact).

As usual, I'm probably wrong, but I can't help but think that a major portion of breeders out there give the dedicated, caring breeders a bad name. My wife does have a good friend who raised and sold German Shepards up in New England. Apparently he was pretty good at it and his dogs were "well known". Personally, I thought he was a good man after meeting him. Some time later, he got out of the "business" of selling dogs for a couple of reasons, the biggest one being that he actually cared about his animals, and buying one from him was probably more trying and time consuming than trying to adopt a child (you had to know his wife as well, those dogs were like her children). I know he did not speak highly of some of the people he knew in the "dog business" because of (not his exact words) quantity over quality trying to make the big dollar.

Heck, get a pair of dogs and get into the business (perferably one male and one female).

From what I've seen, read, heard and met, the AKC is a bunch of snobs who have created an organization who's primary goal is to make money. Funny how that seems to be the case with a lot of organizations that started off with good intentions but then has grown to be a "monster out of control".

What's somewhat ironic is the dog in my avatar was a bitch who for some reason could never have more than one pup per litter sp? and was "discarded" because of that reason. There are some breeders who make me think not to nice thoughts.

BD, I'm curious, when you mention "replace or refund", does that mean that you could get your money back and still keep the dog or get another dog at "no charge" and still keep the one you have? If the answer is yes, sounds like a breeder who does care and has integrity, and I know they are out there, just few and far between from what I've seen.

dzalphakilo said:

BD, I'm curious, when you mention "replace or refund", does that mean that you could get your money back and still keep the dog or get another dog at "no charge" and still keep the one you have? If the answer is yes, sounds like a breeder who does care and has integrity, and I know they are out there, just few and far between from what I've seen.

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I'll dig out some of the agreements when I get time. There are stipulations a lot like Junk descibed. I know one is if you keep the dog it would have to be spayed of neutered. All the breeders I have worked with have been excellent but I know there are bad ones too! The last two I have purchased from had extensive referencing of ME! Beaux's breeder (Trinity Labs guarantee) actually makes calls to see how he's doing!

Big Dog said:

The last two I have purchased from had extensive referencing of ME! Beaux's breeder (Trinity Labs guarantee) actually makes calls to see how he's doing!

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If they call and do follow up's and are sincere, they already sound like they are above average.

I'm curious, how in depth did they "check you out"?

Not trying to get on a soap box, but for as many breeders out there that may not be what some would consider "above average", you have as many people looking for dogs who have no clue what they are getting themselves into and the responsibility it involves.

Even though we do work with rescues, some people fall over dead when they hear they need to fill out a questionaire/paperwork, we do a home visit, and the dog cannot be taken home the same day you when you first see the animal.

Then again, if I told you some stories on people looking for animals, I think you'd see our point on our reasoning behind the paperwork and home visits.

After checking out Trinity labs website, have to show a pic of our yellow lab, Rose

dzalphakilo said:

I'm curious, how in depth did they "check you out"?

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Questionaire (both paper and verbal questioning), paperwork and referencing. It was not feasable for them to do a home visit. I'm pretty sure they called my previous trainer or knew him through the HRC.

Per Trinity's website.

Honestly, after looking at thier (yes, I know, I never spell their the same way twice) website and reading about your experiences with them, I'm surprised that they would actually request the dog to be destroyed for a full refund.

1. You may keep the dog and receive half of the purchase price back after proof the dog has been spayed or neutered.
2. You may return the dog after having it spayed or neutered for a refund of half the purchase price.
3. The dog may be euthanized for a full refund.
4. The dog may be replaced with another puppy from another litter of equal value after being put to sleep. If the price of a replacement pup is greater than the original pup purchased, you must pay us the difference. You, the purchaser, will assume the expense of shipping the replacement pup if necessary.

I am SO glad that Timba is not a pedigree, she is not a dog anyway, she is my best friend and soul mate. She doesn't care what I do, she is with me all the way and you can't have a better friend than that. As I type this she is lying beside me (fully agreeing with all I say).

dzalphakilo said:

Per Trinity's website.

Honestly, after looking at thier (yes, I know, I never spell their the same way twice) website and reading about your experiences with them, I'm surprised that they would actually request the dog to be destroyed for a full refund.

1. You may keep the dog and receive half of the purchase price back after proof the dog has been spayed or neutered.
2. You may return the dog after having it spayed or neutered for a refund of half the purchase price.
3. The dog may be euthanized for a full refund.
4. The dog may be replaced with another puppy from another litter of equal value after being put to sleep. If the price of a replacement pup is greater than the original pup purchased, you must pay us the difference. You, the purchaser, will assume the expense of shipping the replacement pup if necessary.

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This is a standard pedigree guarantee, prevents exploiting the bloodline with a damaged dog.