Snow Cat Pricing

I am just curious as to how many of you gents have given thought to the real value of a cat ? No disrespect to anyone implied or intended.
Take for example a 75 Thiokol 1200. Purchased for 8k in fair shape. Now to get it right, not for just a back yard toy, but to be dependable to go 25mi into the rockies and up 10-12k feet at -20 plus. So, new tires, tubes, wheelbearings,seals and upgrade to aluminimum wheels & tires filled. Cost $7500.00 with no labor. Track belts and bolts $ 3500-4500.00 no labor. Sproket recover $800.00 so now we are up to a total of $21,200.00. We still have done nothing to the engine, transmission, OC 12 diff, body, chasis, hydraulics, electrical etc. The reason i bring this up is years back i had one that had been gone thru, not just paint and stickers. Everything front to back and top to bottom. I had a price on it of 30k. Most everyone that looked at it wanted it for 12k or less. This machines engine and transmission were under warranty etc. it was basically a new machine. So i am wondering how many guys ( there are some very knowledgeable here) really understand how expensive a good cat can be or how much it takes to get one right. Or how many have put 25k in one plus what they paid for it and sold it for 10k ?

good question - I looked until I found one that had low hours, utility owned, and garaged when it wasn't in use, in hopes that I wouldn't be looking at major repairs

You could do the exact same restoration work to a truck or car of the same age and basic values and come to the same conclusion. Just because it is a "restored" 1970s snowcat vs. a basic unrestored snowcat does not increase the demand for a $30,000 toy with a very narrow need or use. The ones that absolutely must have one in the condition that you describe, have the money and are willing to part with it, are far and few between. Once you get down to $10-20,000 the field of buyers really opens up but as you know the numbers just don't crunch for the guy doing the full blown restoration.

There must not be a huge demand for utility snowcats in the commercial market as back in the 60-80s because there are so few being made. Prinoth could hardly give away their Trooper/Patrols, rarely see the Pisten Bully Scouts or Flexmobile, an Ohara sat on ebay for ever. All that indicates not a huge commercial demand because businesses are much more likely to by newer than restored.

The same thing can be said for general aviation. You can take a very good basic cessna/piper and start dumping the money in and never get it back out. Not the demand like 30-40 years ago. Now on the other hand I see plenty of guys buying a $50,000+ truck, putting thousands of $$$$ into tricking it out and having a $10,000 enclosed trailer with $30-40,000 worth of snowmobiles, quads and side by sides. Go figure.

I live in deep snow country and in one of the most popular winter recreational areas in Alaska with lots of remote off road cabins and a few lodges. I am the only guy in the entire area that uses snowcats on a regular basis and that is only for commercial applications, primarily grooming 125 miles of trails. The only other snowcats are rarely used by a couple of miners or the rare snowtrac or imp trailered in from town. I don't get it but that is the way it is.

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand your frustration and am only try to explain it as i see it. I did a complete restoration/modification on a Thiokol 1200 about 17 years ago. No corners were cut and it is the nicest one I have ever seen in person and could hold it's own with any I have seen in pictures, and I've seen some real nice pictures. I had about $25,000 in purchase price and parts and paint. Untold amount of labor but I would want $15-20,000 if someone wanted me to do it again.

I did it for my own use as I had the dream to do tours for a winter business. Long story short I couldn't make it work so reluctantly decided to sell while my baby was fresh. Tried in Alaska for two years and had dropped my price from$25,000 to $20,000. Finally worked a deal to trade it for two worn out BR400s in California and shipped it south only to have the guy back out while the rig was in route down there. Another long story but one of the greatest men in snowcats, Bill Gunthrie picked it up at the dock and was thrilled to do so as he had no idea it was such a nice cat. He had it sold before it got back to Idaho for $36,000 as I recall. He saved my bacon and it was because he had a reputation for selling quality equipment and had the customer base to make it happen. NOT a huge market.

I understand completely. I used to work as a snowcat mechanic years back, BR,s MP,s tuckers, lmc, thiokol PB,s muskegs etc. I just dont think alot of guys realize what it takes or what cost is involved.
There still is a market for good older machines. As you know you can buy a mp or mp plus with 12k hrs all day for 40-50k. But better have deep pockets or be real good friends with Donald Cleary in Quebec. Pump=10k. Drive motor = 10k on and on. Lap top & software to just diagnose. I take mine up in the beartooth mts, deep snow and demanding, no place to break down.
I will say the price of older cats is going up. Hell 15k for a new sled or 24k for a razor.

I just hope that if something happens to me that the wife sells it for what it's worth, NOT what I told her it cost + expenses. Not that I would fib on prices or anything...

59muskeg said:

I understand completely. I used to work as a snowcat mechanic years back, BR,s MP,s tuckers, lmc, thiokol PB,s muskegs etc. I just dont think alot of guys realize what it takes or what cost is involved.
There still is a market for good older machines. As you know you can buy a mp or mp plus with 12k hrs all day for 40-50k. But better have deep pockets or be real good friends with Donald Cleary in Quebec. Pump=10k. Drive motor = 10k on and on. Lap top & software to just diagnose. I take mine up in the beartooth mts, deep snow and demanding, no place to break down.
I will say the price of older cats is going up. Hell 15k for a new sled or 24k for a razor.

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I agree the price of the older cats is going up..

The cost of new, and the complication of computer controls, weight, and width are all against the newer stuff being worth much on the private market..

I never plan to get more than I paid for any machine. If I were to get more, I just think it's a lucky deal..

And restoration is a labor of love for the most part, as getting it back when you sell should not expected. Finding a good home for your former "love" is more important IMHO anyway..

Regards, Kirk

my 2100 would have to bring 18 grand to put money back I have invested right now I would likely not let it go for under 25 k if I were a motivated seller I have not done any cosmetics to it yet. yes I again like ak snow cat use my cats commercially as i',m the only one in the region who has any running, and would dare to venture out of town with a rig that old. its more of a hobby I would like to get some grooming business too

Most of us who have restored a snowcat have a very simular story. It has to be a labor of love,because there sure won't even come close to breaking even. Waited 3 years to find a buyer for a beautifully restored 75 tucker,for a huge loss.

I think there is a good market in Colorado and Utah . its all about the nostalgia

one thing a guy has to remember is that these older snow cats wont have osha safety devices for commercial use like say gaurds around fans, roll over protective structures or provisions for back up alarms. this kind of stuff makes any of the older machines useless for commercial activity's. also are the tax advantages for new equipment, and the fact that the newer crewmembers expect to drive with a joy stick and computer screen. my old 2100 is hell for reliable and also affordable to operate, the down side is between 3 hydraulic controls, a manual transmission, and 2 steering laterals one has to have some kohonnas to operate one for any period of time. something the younger generation lacks, the new machines can be real productive, but operators work half as hard. the down side is maintenance triples with all those complex electrical systems especially the emissions systems. most of our un scedualed maintenance is on emissions crap on these new diesels. smaller cats like snow tracs and imp's seem to hold there value because of high demand for easily transportable machines, same as skid steer loaders. my snow trac has a special place for me it got me into this likely I will die with it some day I may decide I have no use for the big cat till than I have the biggest and baddest snow cats in this town. and yes nfs 15 k for the snow trac and 30 for the Thiokol may get me thinking likely the answer would be no for those selling the real value is what some one is willing to pay for it.

I have always looked at it as what is the value to me. I wont buy or sell outside of that. I am about to spend my time and money to reconfigure an super imp into something I will have a good time with. Hopefully if I timed the market right? someone else wants to buy what I produce. Of course, I want to have my way with it first. If I do my job right, others will see the value in that. If I wasted time and money.. shame on me.

My thoughts:
I'm not improving it to flip it (either way), I'm improving it so I have reliable transportation to where I want to go. If I ever decide to sell, I know I'm not going to get back the entire amount, but I figure that after I factor in the Grandkid rides, It's all worth it

I fell into the disease too. I spent like I was keeping it forever. At the 'fork in the road' done mechanicals and ready to move onto paint... My snowmobile club decided to move ahead and get a tucker. I bought their ASV in the deal.

I very easily could have kept going. I didn't like the IMP as a work cat as it was. I really needed a ram steer drag to work it like I wanted it to work. Had I kept it.. I was inline for paint, interior, hydraulic setup. I'm sure I would have been staring at a 20k dollar IMP in minutes. Then, had I busted a track.. well new ones are easy. BINGO.. there you go. I'm at 30k in a heartbeat. There was one close by to me recently posted for sale.

Instead, I moved mine along. I did ok, didn't hurt too much. Someone else gets a cat with good mechanicals, and can proceed on to cosmetics.

You don't buy a 40 year old mechanical device and think that it's going to be easy or cheap. I guess we're just all mentally ill!

JP

All great posts. I guess we are all mentally ill when it comes to cats lol.

Don't buy a snow cat unless you plan to improve it, maintain it or loose money selling it Oh did I miss repair it…. What a beautiful vision to see a 40 year old cat chugging up the hill.

Like anything a snow cat is only worth what some one will pay. If your selling hopefully that person buying is afflicted. If you buying well your afflicted good luck with that.

Kristi KT7 said:

Don't buy a snow cat unless you plan to improve it, maintain it or loose money selling it Oh did I miss repair it…. What a beautiful vision to see a 40 year old cat chugging up the hill.
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How about all four!

Im a get it and fix the mechanical issues, get it running guy!! let the other guy invest $40,000 and make it worth $20,000 more. I'm pretty sure if i "EVER" sell mine i might make a profit.I really do appreciate looking at beautifully restored machines,i just wouldn't dare use them!

just got back from grooming my trail with my 1344, 83 Tucker - works like a charm - beautiful 8' wide sleddog trail in one pass - 37000 btu heater, windshield wipers, all the comforts of sitting in my living room, other than a TV - other than a blade in the process of being built, I haven't spent a dime other than initial cost and trucking - just the way I hoped it would be

loggah said:

Im a get it and fix the mechanical issues, get it running guy!! let the other guy invest $40,000 and make it worth $20,000 more. I'm pretty sure if i "EVER" sell mine i might make a profit.I really do appreciate looking at beautifully restored machines,i just wouldn't dare use them!

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think you meant to say "NEVER" some things are just NOT for sale. no matter what the offer maybe,

FYI, all our machines are to be used and enjoyed, even those fully restored machines, even those that have gone to Pebble Beach Concours

sleddogracer said:

, I haven't spent a dime other than initial cost and trucking - just the way I hoped it would be

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You askin for a cracked block or sumptin? Posting that is tempting the Karma gods to smite thee and thy tracked vehicle.

Pontoon Princess said:

think you meant to say "NEVER" some things are just NOT for sale. no matter what the offer maybe,

FYI, all our machines are to be used and enjoyed, even those fully restored machines, even those that have gone to Pebble Beach Concours

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Even a one of a kind Kristi KT7

"You askin for a cracked block or sumptin? Posting that is tempting the Karma gods to smite thee and thy tracked vehicle."

I should have added "SO FAR!" - lol

Kristi KT7 said:

Even a one of a kind Kristi KT7

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yes even one of two of a kind Kristi KT7

Well our government has decided that snow cats are way to dangerous for the common public to own and have declared a manditary turn in program. So everyone that owns a cat is asked to drop them off at Minnesota Outdoors where they will be evaluated and tagged for disposal you will be given a vochure to get a pair of skis or snowshoes of choice so that pretty much means snow cats will have no value.

Does this program sound familiar? Well guess it time to create snowcat caves deep in the mountains.Wait there not using all those old missal silos they will never get them all.

Anybody with a Kristi just needs to fill with water to deactivate the threat

Gonna have to do some widening, maybe a brace or two, the guards bed and chair is in place already

Lower level anyone, this actual goes to miles of underground

i sure miss BIG AL, he was the prefect foil for you and your very overly active imagination.

Pontoon Princess said:

i sure miss BIG AL, he was the prefect foil for you and your very overly active imagination.

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OMG, I got dizzy watching that I think I'm going to puke

that is just about your snow trac size. lower level could be for that cash of parts.

JimVT said:

that is just about your snow trac size. lower level could be for that cash of parts.

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The snowtrac would never make its way to rough about 35 miles from my house
At about 6000 feet, quad is best way in or chopper can't always get a chopper ride and I can't fly one very good I've tried nice landing spot a couple hundred yards away