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WTB Snow cat

Copperhead

New member
Newbie here and don't know much about snow cats since I'm from the south. We have a second home in Ouray, CO and it sits above the city with about a 100' driveway that is real steep. Like up the side of a mountain steep. So in the winter when we go there we have to park down on the city road and trek up this steep driveway covered in snow to get to the house. I'm way too old for that anymore. I think what I'd like to have is something that can hold 3-4 people and be able to climb the grade and possibly be able to plow the driveway. Not a lot of turn around room at the top of the driveway. Open to suggestions and if someone here has something that may work.
 

Red130

Member
100 feet isn't that much in terms of length. Have you thought about a four seat side-by-side UTV (Polaris Ranger or Kubota RTV, for example) with tire chains on all tires and a plow?
 

undy

New member
Welcome Copperhead. Nice area of Colorado. Here's some thoughts, in no particular order...

A hundred yards isn't far, even steep. But uphill in snow, I bet it's tough going.

Depending on how wide and/or sloped the driveway is, perhaps a cat might be the ticket. But they do have their limitations.

How rich are ya?

If the turnaround at the top is really tight, a brake-steer cat might not do so well, whereas a hydrostatic cat might be able to spin in place. But a hydrostatic cat can get expensive.

If the drive has a side slope, it might be a bit more tricky. Cats tracks grip primarily front to back. To accommodate hardpack sidehills, you can add ice cleats. But if it's a fresh snow sidehill, you'll need a blade and to be able to to cut a level path as you go.

Then there's maintenance and storage and probably at least theft insurance if it's left sitting around.

How about one of those smaller tracked vehicles, like an Argo (6 or 8 wheels) with tracks? I doubt that it would do much for plowing, but if you can just drive over the snow, who cares? They hold a few people and some even have soft-top cabs.

Is there anyone in the area with a cat whom you could hire to plow if/when you needed to?

Do you have to plow the driveway out, because of insurance concerns?

Do you need to adopt an aging ski bum (who would promise to be gone early on any "powder days"), just to hear the pitter-patter of large feet around the house? You can let me know on this one.:whistling:

Sorry Red130, I wrote that all on my own, but it looks like we have the same take on things.
 

Copperhead

New member
Thanks for your response. The driveway is level side to side so that's not an issue. The driveway is concrete. If I leave the truck parked down on the city street then I can do a normal 3 point turn at the top. If my truck is parked at the house then I need to turn around in the yard area. Currently my budget is in the $10,000 area. I've seen some videos on things like an argo but have mixed reactions on them. As for being rich I'm 67 and still work 2 jobs to pay the bills.
 

Copperhead

New member
IS-1tr4y7opujgpp.jpg

Here is a picture that might give an idea of the slope, etc.
 

undy

New member
I only asked about being rich to qualify what you were thinking of spending, as the most desirable small hydrostatic cats seem to cost a lot.

Looks to me as if a small cat could fit up that driveway fine, as there are no cliffs off the side to worry about sliding off of. I'm still of the opinion that turning around at top could be a bit of a concern with a brake steer cat, but maybe not impossible. A hydrostatic turning machine would probably be the ideal machine. For that matter, you could almost just back uphill and drive downhill if turning around was not possible.

But it's still a very small hill to justify the costs of a cat, IMHO (but that's your call ultimately).

If someone local can plow that drive for you, that $10K might allow you to just hire it done for many years to come. Then you can skip the maintenance and repair bills entirely and drive up. At 67, that might take care of you for as long as you need(?), depending on how long you can stay at that location.

I'm still thinking of something small and Argo-ish. Perhaps others will chime in with better ideas. Good luck with the hunt.

Cheers
 

Copperhead

New member
I appreciate your response and no offense was taken on the being rich comment. The issue I've had in the past with hiring it done is that even if it is done one day and we get snow the next and my truck is parked at the top then it is one scary ride down the hill onto the city street. If you try to brake then you just slide every which way. The way the town is tucked into the mountains around it makes snowy days very common. When we bought the place I went up during March to start the interior demolition and even then it snowed every day several inches. So it may mean daily plowing and not sure what kind of costs that may be. Letting the snow accumulate over a long period and the bottom layers become really packed and is difficult to plow.
 

mtntopper

Back On Track
SUPER Site Supporter
Design a small overhead tram system and forget the plowing. It may cost more than 10K but would make your access easy in the winter....Just a thought as the drive is so short and it would not take much to move a small passenger/cargo cabin up the hill to your porch or deck area. :biggrin:

I have seen them used in river crossing in the west to access cabins and homes that do not have road access.
 

undy

New member
Gotcha. I lived in Silverthorn in '89-90, and only moved back home after a bad crash skiing. I once ran the road south from Grand Junction in a near whiteout. The two girls riding along were scared white. They finally mutinied, and we stopped overnight in Silverton. It's certainly steep near you.

It might still be worth inquiring about the cost of plowing. Some guys here contract for a set price for the season, regardless of the number of days it snows.

Or how about just putting a plow on your truck and leave it parked at the top? Hire someone for the dumps, but do the daily cleaning yourself.

There are small snow cats. I had an old Bombardier SV200 that was pretty agile even with a blade. You could find one with a full cab or expand the cab for more seating.

I guess even paradise has it's conundrums. Cheers.
 

undy

New member
mtntopper,

Just saw your post. I'd thought of that too. A guy could build one a lot cheaper than that, I'll bet. You can find old ski lifts for sale, often dirt-cheap.

Some folks near me built a small train on rails to haul building materials up a steep slope. They used some sort of winch and just hauled it up and down. The tracks were just 2x4 with some rails bolted down. It worked for several years while they built the place, but it's pretty well rotted away now.

Several years ago I built a ropetow on my farm for $120. It runs 440' in 55 seconds and you can ride it hands-free. That's actually what led to me owning a snowcat.
 

Copperhead

New member
The issue with a train or tram is that the lower half of the driveway is actually on city property and just above that is the neighbors and even though the driveway had been there 40 years there was never an easement recorded. It was originally planned to be a city road and the city ended up giving it to the neighbor instead of a normal split. So I ended up having to buy (actually the title company did the buy) an official easement but it only gives me usage rights, not rights to change or improve, etc. So that's another issue. The neighbor is okay but he typically never agrees to anything without a price. :sad:
 

Okanagan

New member
Welcome to the swamp, Copperhead!

I'm in a similar situation as you, steep mountainside driveway and all, only mine is almost a mile long. (Great view though!:wink:) Hoofing it in is not an option, been there done that (getting old sucks)!

I've been using an ol' Ford highboy ('72 4x4) with a straight six motor (God bless 'em!) and a cab-controlled hydraulic angling 7.5 foot plow. All blinged out with REALLY heavy-duty v-bar tire chains, and it works great going downhill. Won’t push up however, so I have to hump it back to the top and turn around for another downhill run. This translates into a lot of gas (1/4 tank per per snowfall). Last winter, I managed to grind the front differential to a pulp while trying to get back onto the road after high-centering by dropping the front end over the shoulder edge (OOPS!), so I’ve been looking at more suitable replacement options. I figure a tracked vehicle is the way to go, so here I am.

I guess the most important question you need to answer is; Do you just want a people (and personal cargo) carrier so you can get in while leaving your car at the bottom, or do you intend to try and keep your driveway actually cleared of snow?

Essentially, for simply travelling over deeper snow (ie; no intention of plowing), you just need plenty of 'flotation'... hence, the wider the track width, the better. Depending on the depth of un-compacted snow, and, the steepness of ascent you face, you might get by with an Argo fitted with tracks… maybe - (emphasis on the word ‘might’). You can even get them kitted with pseudo-cabs for those blizzardy days.

attachment.php


You can forget about plowing anything more than a mere skiff o' snow with one of these things though. They're just too light duty for deep snow on steepish hills (ie; their toy plow accessory will only work on a flat driveway, forget about pushing back snowbanks)... I don't care what any sales brochure says!


Alternately, if you do want to plow your driveway, you DON’T want flotation! You want maximum traction and lots of pushing power! A heavy machine with narrow, heavily cleated tracks is the ticket here. That way you have lots of weight on a multitude of small contact points with the ground, resulting in maximum pounds per square inch contact over a larger area.

Bombardier used to make a dedicated sidewalk plow specifically designed for clearing four foot wide city sidewalks. These things (called SW48’s) are miniature tanks and will push pretty much whatever you put in front of them. They have heated cabs, rubber tracks (so you won’t buggar-up your concrete driveway surface), and a fully hydraulically controlled angling plow blade (sweet!). Most circa 1975-2006 units even have powered sand/salt spreaders mounted on the rear. One of these little gems would be PERFECT for your application! You could even hitch a seat-equipped trailer to the rear for hauling your groceries, grandkids, and the wife up the hill. (Just don’t turn on the sander if expect to get supper that evening!) Here’s what they look like:

attachment.php


You’ll easily be able to buy one within the budget you’ve mentioned, but be patient. There are lots of these machines still out there, but not all have trustworthy backgrounds. Hour meter replacement is a common way for some characters to try and pass off a sow’s ear as a silk purse (believe me, I’ve seen some real doozies, with highly dubious stories that just don’t add up to what current photos show)… so beware. Caveat Emptor!

Looking for units with histories of being previously owned by municipalities with decent maintenance shops is your best bet, as proper maintenance is more likely to have been done on a regular basis, thus reasonably assuring you of a reliable machine that will, in turn, fetch a better resale when you finally decide to move on. If you shop the auctions (where municipalities typically sell their assets), keep an eye on the fine print… auction fees can kill ya! Shipping cost is another matter, too, but I won’t get into that here. PM me for suggestions on how to drive shipping costs down.

Hope at least some of this helps. Good luck
 

Okanagan

New member
You're welcome, Copperhead.

I don't know what the problem is with the photos. They come up beautifully on my screen, right where they're supposed to be!

Anyhoo, Google Image search: "Argo ATV snow" will bring multiple examples of the first AWOL pic. Google Image search: "Bombardier SW48" for the second. There are various model versions through the years shown. The square-cabbed ones are version I was discussing.
 

Okanagan

New member
WHAT THE.... ?

Now the pics I uploaded earlier today and viewed right here just an hour ago are gone!

Mod? Have a chat with your webmaster, will ya? I've tried to read, figure out, and follow site instructions (in both the User CP AND the FAQ section) on how to post pics here... and they're about as clear as mud! (What is a "parsed link"?)
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
what I would suggest is a sw machine, or a municipal tractor, like a trackless or a holder, with a snow blower .chained up all around they will go both directions,and the sw machines have enough weight to push like a small cat.
 

sno-drifter

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I like what Snowtrac Nome said, get a 4X4 tractor, chain it up all around. You could have a loader on the front and a PTO blower on the rear three point. http://www.bercomac.com/accessories...-sub-compact-cub-cadet-yanmar-sc-tractors.php You may not like the blower on the back if you have neck issues. But the loader will do OK for light snows and the blower will clear out when the sides get too deep. Get something that will fit in your garage and park it out side when the driveway is clear and you want your car inside.
 
I'd go with an older sw48, preferably with rubber tracks or at least rubber cleats - you could get one well under your budget limit and you'd have over kill as far as plowing your driveway is concerned - once you have one you'll be looking for a place with a longer driveway to plow - lol
 

Okanagan

New member
Don't mean to sound contrary, but my neighbour has a 4x4 (agricultural type) tractor. He dreads when it snows!

He tells me that sitting out in the elements sux (no cab), a snowblower attachment would be nice, except that he has no cab (the mental image is positively hilarious to me... talk about a "D'OH" moment when he spins it up for the first time on a windy day!).

He complains that his loader bucket doesn't push snow off to the side so he's forever jockeying back and forth while trying to get the snow actually off his driveway, it takes him three times longer than me to clear his driveway (even though I can only plow one direction at a time), he's always in fear of tipping over whenever he goes near the edge of his ditches and shoulders due to tractors' high centres of gravity, and (very expensive) chains are absolutely necessary for control (steering, stopping) on the slightest bit of ice.

If we lived on the Prairies, maybe he'd be just fine... but not where mountainsides are involved. Tractors and steep slopes DON'T mix, especially with a loaded bucket up in the air!

Just sayin'.

Ps. Farm tractors and Trackless/Holder Muni "tractors" (like Nome was referring to) are two completely different animals.
 

Red130

Member
I agree a raised FEL is dangerous on a slope, but I think a compact tractor (like Kubota BX or B series) with tire chains on all 4, front plow (probably with a front sub-frame mount, there is no need for FEL and bucket) and a 3 point snowblower would work great. But one problem is that's going to cost more than $10k even for a used machine. ($20k ???)
Ritche Bros. has several SW48's coming up on auction on Sept. 30 but they're in Montreal so logistics are more complicated than if they were in Denver or Salt Lake.
 

Red130

Member
One additional suggestion for the original poster: Call Southwest Ag in Bayfield, CO and ask them about small used Kubota's for snow removal. They're the largest Kubota dealer in the region and sell a lot of snow removal equipment. You might get some additional ideas/suggestions from them.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
To piggyback on suggestions by Snowtrac Nome, Sno-Drifter and Red130...

I use a Bobcat with a snowblower and it works very well. It's a model 763 High Flow with the fully enclosed cab (and heater) and an Erskine 66" two-stage hydraulic snowblower. I have chains on all four wheels.

Living in Park City we can get some impressive snow years (though not lately). The snowblower allows you to put the snow where you want it with much more freedom than a blade. You can blow it over any banks whereas once you start with a blade the snowbanks typically get narrower over the course of the winter. I will say in heavy, wet, slush-like "snow" it sometimes does clog the discharge chute.

It's a compact unit and very maneuverable. The windshield wiper does a good job of keeping the door window clear and you need about 1/3 of the heater's capability.

My Bobcat is a late ninety's model and I'm sure they've changed greatly since. But with my vintage you must have the additional hydraulic volume that you get with the high flow option. (My recollection is it's a factory option and not economically feasible to have added later.)

I have about 8,000 square feet of asphalt and I considered every option I could think of for snow removal. This certainly wasn't the cheapest route, but after 15 years of experience I wouldn't change a thing.

The Bobcat comes in handy for other uses as well.
 
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here's a link that lists several SW48s for sale in Quebec - it's in French so you may have to translate it, but it might give you some ideas of what's out there --
 

wade2367

New member
You might want to look on KSL.com Classifides Recreational Vehicles/snowmobiles used for a Max IV Snowcat. I am selling it for an elderly couple. Totally rebuilt unit. This should fill your needs. The man has over $11k invested in it and is asking $7500. Any questions you may call me Wade 801-450-8143
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
when suggesting municipal tractors this is what I was suggesting http://www.tracklessvehicles.com/tractor.htm these little machines are handy and can be had on the second hand market pretty reasonable. they can handle just about all the attachments a bobcat can handle. the sw machines can also be outfitted with some of these attachments,and are a good choice too. some one else suggested a bobcat,I think that too is a good idea.the one plus with a bobcat is the versatility will get you a higher resale value should you decide to sell it off later just stay away from tracks for winter operations tires and chains are the way to go.
 

Bobmog

Member
Maybe you should consider a Unimog. We typically get 300-400 inches of snow per year and that is what we use. We have a Vee plow, a snowcutter, a snowblower, an angle plow and a loader bucket for the Unimog. We find the loader the most useful in keeping a quarter mile steep driveway cleared including the widening of the driveway on a fairly regular basis depending on snowfall. If you shop around you can find a decent 406 model in the $10K-$12K range. With a loader it is real easy to push huge amounts of snow. It works great.
Bob
 

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Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Just a thought...

If you want to go the Unimog route there are 14 Freightliner FLU 419 vehicles coming up for auction on 8/26 on ironplanet.com.

The FLU419 is essentially a Unimog 406 with a front loader and rear backhoe.

The ones in the auction are late 1980's vehicles and have between 114 miles and 4487 miles. (Boy... us taxpayers sure got our money's worth out of those...NOT!!!)
 

undy

New member
As far as what? A bathtub? Wonderful.

I don't think they are generally available nor handle a plow, if you're considering one.

But they do have an interesting design for sidehill operation.

Got a specific one in mind?
 
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