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ebaycrosspost st4 $#244 $18.8K
- Thread starter Cidertom
- Start date
vintagebike
Well-known member
That is a nice one. It even still has the original Hella K-1288 rear reflectors I have been hunting for 3 years. 
I'm certainly jaded, and generally speaking, not a fan of the standard ST4 SnowTrac. (The ST4B Trac Master, or Snow Master, is a different machine.)
So with that disclaimer out of the way, when I look at the photos of the so-called "grousers" there looks to be virtually no depth (meaning no "bite" if you're trying to get some traction). I've been known to call them "cleats" rather than grousers due to that lack of depth, but these look to be so flat that even calling them "cleats" may be a stretch. Perhaps "tie bars", to indicate their function holding the rubber belts in position as well as the track guides?
Is that silver cylinder on the right side behind the driver's side window the gas tank? It looks like it might hold all of two gallons or so...
If my observation is correct, that price seems "aspirational", considering the expense of replacing all the tie bars (or cleats, if you prefer).
So with that disclaimer out of the way, when I look at the photos of the so-called "grousers" there looks to be virtually no depth (meaning no "bite" if you're trying to get some traction). I've been known to call them "cleats" rather than grousers due to that lack of depth, but these look to be so flat that even calling them "cleats" may be a stretch. Perhaps "tie bars", to indicate their function holding the rubber belts in position as well as the track guides?
Is that silver cylinder on the right side behind the driver's side window the gas tank? It looks like it might hold all of two gallons or so...
If my observation is correct, that price seems "aspirational", considering the expense of replacing all the tie bars (or cleats, if you prefer).
Lol your jaded alright...
Not every were there is snow is it 8 feet deep powder on a 40% slope.
The Snow Master or Trac Master are for that kind of running. The people who built these and the machine you despise were smart enough to offer 2 versions of the same basic machine, and you could pick the one that filled your needs.
Out here on the tundra with our deciduous trees, and hard wind packed snow those in the know find the standard ST4 adequate for our needs, and small and agile enough to snake our way through the woods, under the trees at only just over 6 feet tall... Narrow enough (72") and with a long enough track line, and light enough weight (1/2 the weight of most Tuckers) we don't need those big" tear up the trail" grousers. When We leave the area and hardly anyone would know a snow cat was even in the area because our tracks look like a snowmobile track.. Tuckers? not so much....
Those grousers you make fun of are some of the toughest longest lasting in the snow cat world. You can take your machine on pavement just fine, at speed... Tuckers???
Regards, Kirk
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Kirk,
I do like to "poke" the Snow Trac aficionados (to include The Pontoon Princess of Tucker Royalty fame), but the vast majority of the time I'm poking in fun, and not trying to draw blood, so to speak...
That said, I have considerable experience snowmobiling; back east as a youngster, and in Utah as an adult. Snowmobile manufacturers make models specifically designed for mountain use. Polaris has historically called theirs RMK's; which stands for Rocky Mountain King. The sleds are characterized by light weight, powerful engines and very long tracks with deep lugs. It's a winning combination: out here as they have amazing performance. For the Mid-West and East Coast, they make machines with significantly shorter tracks and lugs that have much less depth. Actual numbers for a 2020 RMK machine are a 163" long track with 2.6" lugs. The Mid-West machine has a track that's 129" with 1.25" lugs. I would assume Polaris feels those specifications are optimized for their intended use location....
So with that background, when I look at the machine pictured in the ebay listing the fourth and last photos are side views of the machine sitting on a stamped concrete apron. It looks to me that the rubber track belts are less than 1/2" above the concrete, which would imply the thickness of the "grousers" is that little. From my understanding the SnowTrac (ST4) "grousers" are essentially a bent U-shape. So you're starting with the thickness of the grouser material. I've never seen one up close, but I'd think a minimum of .090". That would similarly imply not much depth for the "bite" I mentioned in my earlier post.
Based on my experience, I'm not sure that would climb an iced over trailer ramp. In this case I'm not really "poking the SnowTrac bear" so much as expressing concern for a potential buyer.
Do they not look excessively worn to you (serious question)?
PJL,
Thanks for the explanation on the tank!
I noticed the hitch isn't the same as all the others. they came with a small pintle hitch. it doesn't look like it was changed. so it must have came from sweeden like that. sliding roof looks new.
you'll be surprised on the traction it has with those tracks.
I have been putting new track belts on mine and swapping grousers this week.
you'll be surprised on the traction it has with those tracks.
I have been putting new track belts on mine and swapping grousers this week.
The center of the grouser is about 4-5" wide and about 3/4" high in just the center. Then on each side of that there is an area about 8" that is about 1/2" high, and is the 2nd piece of the welded construction of 3 pieces, the bottom layer is the thinnest at maybe 1/8" thickness and is the back bone of the entire grouser... They seem to be quite durable, and as Jim says it is surprising the traction they make. Steel, sharp edges, yet flat and 2" or so wide.
There are two bolts in the tallest part of the center of the grouser. On hard surfaces like cement, the bolt heads are all that the machine is riding on. I would tend to think this prevents a lot of wear on hard surfaces.
Most all of the machines I have seen have some remnants of the rubber coating that was present on the grousers when new.. And for one or two years there was a cast grouser offered, that was much more aggressive than the welded types. Unfortunately there are very few of these around today, but once in a while I see a picture of a machine with them. One such pic showed a ST4 with every other grouser the cast type mixed with the welded standard grousers. I would love to try those out in your part of the country..
My snow catting this year will be little to none. Rotator cuff surgery in a few weeks..
This machine here for sale is one of the most original ST4's that I have seen in recent times. It is a beautiful example, unmolested and complete. It will make some one very happy indeed...
Regards, Kirk
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I love the banter. I spent the weekend in a tucker grooming snow. I hope to be able to focus soon. I am suffering from shaken adult syndrome...... I always wonder if the hearing will come back before the eye sight?
I only got stuck twice. ( deserved it both times )
I will have to bring a snow trac up to the clowder to get BFT some proper seat time. snow tracs with the two band tracks are a pretty enjoyable experience. There was a sno drift that found some seat time behind the wheel. I would dare say the smile in the video to indicate that the experience might have been an enjoyable endeavor, then again it could have been gas?
Yes, the herringbone grouser was available on the Standard ST4. I have only seen one machine with a full compliment of them come up for sale. I still regret not making the effort to secure it for the stable. at the time I had a ST4B, and the grip was like velcro on midwest snow.
I only got stuck twice. ( deserved it both times )
I will have to bring a snow trac up to the clowder to get BFT some proper seat time. snow tracs with the two band tracks are a pretty enjoyable experience. There was a sno drift that found some seat time behind the wheel. I would dare say the smile in the video to indicate that the experience might have been an enjoyable endeavor, then again it could have been gas?
Yes, the herringbone grouser was available on the Standard ST4. I have only seen one machine with a full compliment of them come up for sale. I still regret not making the effort to secure it for the stable. at the time I had a ST4B, and the grip was like velcro on midwest snow.
Jim,
If I remember correctly there was a time your ST4 out climbed your PB Scout?
Was that before you lengthened out your track line?
Regards, Kirk
Kirk,
Thanks for the detailed reply. One thing that stuck out in your post was this: "Rotator cuff surgery in a few weeks.. ".
I've been there and done that...twice (once each shoulder). You've probably heard this, but it's a tough recovery that takes quite a while. Lots of physical therapy and home exercises. Then when you finally do get full range of motion, you have to rebuild the muscle tissue in the shoulder. A long process... but you should be as good as new.
If you haven't heard about sleeping "issues", I highly recommend getting a recliner like a La-Z-Boy. I think I slept in mine for about six weeks post surgery each time, and then I tried transitioning to the bed.
Being frugal (nice word for cheap) I bought a used recliner via ksl.com for $50. Money VERY well spent. When I needed surgery on the other shoulder, my snowcat buddy Scott and I moved the recliner actuating lever to the opposite side! Yes, there was a hole in the fabric, but it was intended to be of temporary use anyway.
As redsqwrl indicated, I'm planning on going to the Clowder this year. You are one of the forum members I was genuinely looking forward to meeting in person, so perhaps another year...
My sincere best wishes for a successful surgery. Please keep us posted...
don't rule Kirk out.
266 will have to go it alone this year as 267 may not have an operator, but perhaps it could show up for saturdays festivities. Kirks machine and mine a sequential serial numbers......
Kirk tends to operate his like motel six. on the saturday morning fun, if the light is shining, the operator is too......
266 will have to go it alone this year as 267 may not have an operator, but perhaps it could show up for saturdays festivities. Kirks machine and mine a sequential serial numbers......
Kirk tends to operate his like motel six. on the saturday morning fun, if the light is shining, the operator is too......
just can't let this one go, okay R.Sqwrl, you have Adult Shaken Syndrome (ASS), yup, there it is..... enough said,
yup, the banter is great, and poking both the tucker and snow trac bear at the same time is priceless, and running over a squirrel is a bonus, ooops
BTF, bless your heart, as snow cats go, for the money, hard to beat the value of a snow trac, even at $18,800.00 and there is no need to put an big American V-8 in one, as they are made for the city, FYI, they have turn signals, brake lights, and rear view mirrors and are just a tad taller then a Volvo, and make great commuter snow cats in Stockholm...
and 300 H and H, bless you heart, thank god you have never needed a tucker to save your Adult Shaken Syndrome, Tuckers go where no other snow cat can and as I recall you took a direct hit from a Torpedo, at the kitten klowder one year...your rear view mirror was filled with a Torpedo.
lets see BTF is going to kitten Klowder and will be more than happy to drive a snow trac and just maybe, he will change his Growl just a bit.
and 300, come on out to Sun Valley and give a tucker a test drive in deep Idaho snow, and just maybe you might come to understand why nothing beats a tucker to the top of the mountain. yup, those big American V-8's are great.
let the poking continue in good fun...
I almost forgot about that. I abandon the pb on the long hill and rode in one of the snow trac.
that long track on the snow trac gives lots of floatation and the cat isn't heavy.i haul mine on an rented car trailer that I bought. and fly down the freeway!!
if someone asked you to pull a puckup out of a ditch you'll be spinnin the tracks. 2500 lbs versis 6000 on my pb
Not to distract from all the pok'n go'n on, but I have a couple Snow Trac questions that I'm hoping someone will chime in on while the experts are gathered here.
The spec page gives the hp of 1200cc engine at 53 hp, but elsewhere in the world the basic 1200 vw engine is generally given to have 40 hp. Is the 53 number from back in the day before hp calculations were changed (was that in the US only?), or is the industrial engine used in the Snow Tracs the difference?
This cat looks great, and the more knowledgable of you seem to agree, but perhaps because of a wild west mentality, like BFT I think I would tend toward an st4b. Kinda sorry I wasn't around when this one came up http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?p=20649144
Those who have had both st4 an st4b, did you find the lower gearing and wider tracks to be a big desirable difference? Packed or deep snow? Enough hp?
And I'm wondering, and haven't seen any info, what's the differences between a Trac Master and a Snow Master?
The spec page gives the hp of 1200cc engine at 53 hp, but elsewhere in the world the basic 1200 vw engine is generally given to have 40 hp. Is the 53 number from back in the day before hp calculations were changed (was that in the US only?), or is the industrial engine used in the Snow Tracs the difference?
This cat looks great, and the more knowledgable of you seem to agree, but perhaps because of a wild west mentality, like BFT I think I would tend toward an st4b. Kinda sorry I wasn't around when this one came up http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?p=20649144
Those who have had both st4 an st4b, did you find the lower gearing and wider tracks to be a big desirable difference? Packed or deep snow? Enough hp?
And I'm wondering, and haven't seen any info, what's the differences between a Trac Master and a Snow Master?
ST4B's are in the 0.3 psi range and the standard ST4 is more in the 0.7 psi on the snow...
ST4B's have an extra rear mounted bogie wheel, and the track line is about 1 foot longer out the back end of the machine. This combined with the track width increase is why they are so light on the snow. In the step and deep there is a huge difference between the standard and the Snow Master/Track master..
Those two wider machines are really one in the same IMHO. The name changed when the original manufacturer sold off the Snow Trac line to Ackive.. The specifications are the same.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Kirk
ST4B's have an extra rear mounted bogie wheel, and the track line is about 1 foot longer out the back end of the machine. This combined with the track width increase is why they are so light on the snow. In the step and deep there is a huge difference between the standard and the Snow Master/Track master..
Those two wider machines are really one in the same IMHO. The name changed when the original manufacturer sold off the Snow Trac line to Ackive.. The specifications are the same.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Kirk
http://www.snow-trac.com/photos-01193.htm
This machine has the rare cast grousers with herringbone tread...
Regards, Kirk
This machine has the rare cast grousers with herringbone tread...
Regards, Kirk
Thanks..
Yes I would live to meet you in Michigan and will do so if there is any way possible. But reality is that I may not be able to travel well soon after surgery.. We shall see. If not this winter, it will be another one...
Regards, Kirk
Cool, I'll look forward to seeing them there.
sleddogracer
Member
that's the grousers my Snow Trac had - drive right out of the tracks on hard pack snow, or sod, if I was too aggressive while turning - the manual said something about those cleats making the Snow-Trac the best side hill cat on the market
The Ebay add says no longer available.
