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New guy here, with questions.

Tigdim

New member
Hello all,

I am new to these tracked machines and this forum. I always thought these were designed only to be used in snow as trail/ski hill groomers, not for use all year.

Then a few weeks ago I was researching vehicles for steep terrain, and came across some photo's of j5's and muskegs. Fast forward a few weeks and now I am on here looking for more information.

My reason for researching steep terrain vehicles is that the farm I hunt and cut firewood on has some very steep hills/bluff's. Think 70% grade. (we don't go on those except on foot) And a few areas 4 wheelers are tricky to get up out of with a single rider, putting a deer on the front rack helps a-lot. Can't even load the back of the ranger with un-split rounds and make it up the hills, much less pull a log or a trailer full of rounds with it. (40 or 50% grades??? have to go measure now)

Looking for a machine that can get in and out of the trails discussed above moving a log or 2 using an arch or possibly winching the log butt's up on to the back of the machine. Think J5 ram skidder.

First question, Anyone know the uphill downhill rating of the J5's? (www.safetyoneinc.com PDF for the J5 does have this spec listed ... unless I just missed it.)

2.) If the information I have found is correct, sprocket should be 11 tooth measuring 5.25" tooth to tooth, giving a total diameter of slightly more than 18 3/8". Is this correct?

3.) Anyone know the actual drive diameter of the sprocket? Or even just the tooth height?

Then I can subtract 1 tooth height from the full diameter of the sprocket to get the diameter at 1/2 the tooth height. Should be accurate enough for calculating speed and drawbar pull. (thinking or re-power an old body/tub, with hydrostactic drive, sort of like discussed here. )

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=46397

I look forward to becoming part of the community,

Aaron
 

MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Here is a J5 sprocket, it will fit right over a small torque hub
Normal pitch on a J5 is 3.75 but that’s because of the drop center cleat changes the diameter of where the belts are.
 

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Tigdim

New member
what is the bolt pattern for the J5 sprocket?

I assume, I will have to make an adapter plate to adapt from a torque hub to the sprocket, correct?
 

MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
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what is the bolt pattern for the J5 sprocket?

I assume, I will have to make an adapter plate to adapt from a torque hub to the sprocket, correct?

Not with the correct torque hub just drill the pattern into the sprocket we normally drill the holes larger and Bush them for a larger contact area, then make a outside plate to match

This picture is not a J5 sprocket but the center is the same size and these are mounted on a torque hub. This is a Muskeg flat track sprocket that we make.
 

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Tigdim

New member
Thanks again for the reply's and good information. Now for more questions. :w00t2:

What is the full diameter of the tires on J5's?

What is the depth and width of the center section, the "Tub" of the J5? I want to figure out what engines will fit. ( leaning towards 4 cyl turbo diesel; cummins 4Bt, Isuzu, or Perkins equivalent. Depends on what I find for the right price when the time comes.)

I am/will be in the process of drawing up a frame/Tub just for fun to see how I want to lay everything out. Cab, engine, winch, forestry blade, and Plow. I will post up some screen shots when I get it further along.

Depending on how things progress I may even go with hydraulic steering similar to a skid steer. But that will depend on the condition of the differential and trans when I get a project machine.

If someone has a digital copy's of the J5 manuals and is willing to share that would be much appreciated. I don't really care what years just looking to get a better idea how everything is laid out. PM me and I will send you my email.

Thanks again,
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
For the steep terrain I would think the longer muskeg would be a better choice. One has to remember as a 2 track machine pitches and rolls over an obstacle it will change the angle enough to start an endo.
 

Tigdim

New member
For the steep terrain I would think the longer muskeg would be a better choice. One has to remember as a 2 track machine pitches and rolls over an obstacle it will change the angle enough to start an endo.

It's funny you should mention that... As I have been drawing up a tub/frame. I began to wonder how much longer it would need to be to convert to 2 walking beams on each side. (Single row of 4 tires)

With a bunch of assumptions about tire height, appropriate gap between sprocket and front wheel, Spindle locations, sprocket Height to keep track running across top of the tires...

It appears the answer is about 136" total frame length. Drawing pictured leaves room for 2"x6" 1/4" wall tubing for front and rear bumper. I have the machine drawn up with a 30" wide tub to give more room in engine/mechanical space. Total machine width of 70"

Since I will already need custom length track, I was thinking I should look into widen it to 18" instead of standard 16" for a normal J5. :bonk:

The more I think about it, the more I wonder, if just adding a solid rear would be better than adding a second walking beam? Of course that then leads to how do you tension the track with a fixed rear wheel?

How do you tension the track on a Ram skidder? (If I remember correctly they have a solid mount rear wheel...)
 

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Tigdim

New member
MacGyver would make a slope degree measuring tool with a Protractor, string and a straw.

I guess I am not MacGyver, Going to borrow a digital angle finder from work. :whistling:

Place board down on steepest part of each trail, and place the digital angle finder on the board. Hardest part is going to be carrying the board down the hill from the truck then back up again.
 

MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
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If you have a smartphone you can just down load a app that will show angles it is held at

Or download the theodolite app if you want surveyors tools
 

Bobcatbob

Active member
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When I was setting the front axles at 17 degrees ....exactly what I did. The Ap worked like a charm!
 

frostypaws

New member
I too really wanted a J5 but couldn't find one nearby so I built my own rig several years back to tow brush and clear trails. Definitley not a pretty machine but I guess it is one way to go about it.
20170101_140914.jpg
 

frostypaws

New member
what were the rear drive sprockets -----that's quite the pitch

From memory, i cut the wheel center off the old combine wheels (used the final drives off it), welded 8 tubes in a star pattern to form the OD, wrapped and welded flat iron as the rolling surface. I think the teeth were just two bent pieces of flat iron and welded together at the apex then spaced apart to the track pitch.

The pitch was somewhere between 5.5-6" because I know the grousers were 3×2 angle iron. Apologies for the scarce details. Also sorry Tigdim for posting in your thread!
 

Tigdim

New member
Also sorry Tigdim for posting in your thread!

No worries frostypaws, I liked seeing the photos of your machine. If I did not have a 2 year old and a infant, That will want to ride in it once finished (you know in 5 years when I finally get far enough to go for a test drive) that may have been the type of bare bones build I went with...

My wife is torn between having a cab for comfort and having a "cute machine!" I showed her pictures of J5's and she says the red ones with the forestry arches are cute.:unsure:
 

Tigdim

New member
Curious about the track and wheels on this machine?

They are not the same as the ones I have seen on other Bombardiers.
 

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MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Curious about the track and wheels on this machine?

They are not the same as the ones I have seen on other Bombardiers.

Those are custom made steel wheels to use with the all rubber track and steel drive sprocket ( it was custom also ) the hubs were made to fit the Bombardier axles and grease caps

Custom tracks with steel cables inside same as the LMC trackmaster 75 skidsteer tracks ( we still have some )
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Tracked machines are used a lot on dirt, grass and just a whole lot of terrain.

A local company used to have a couple Thiokol Sprytes that they did power line work with.

They have since gotten bigger and more well money'd and recently purchased a couple Pisten Bully's.

The PB's are sweet but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

One of their cats is a winch cat. (Has the arm over the top with the winch system)

These guys get into some serious territory on the power line jobs, and I believe they have a crew that does Cell tower work as well.

The old man retired and the kids run things now and are not as friendly as Jim was.

Good luck in your quest for a machine
 

Tigdim

New member
Figured I would update this thread with the actual grades on the farm since I estimated them in the first post.

Steepest slope I measured on the farm, (not including washouts/ravines/ small extra steep transitions) turns out to only be 57% (Just a hair under 30 degrees.) I estimated this slope at 70%, seems steeper when your walking up the slope.

That slope is really rough when your dragging a deer up it...

The trails that we can't pull loaded trailers up/haul wood out of 37-38% (just over a 20 degree angle) I was not as far off with this one, I was thinking 40 to 50%. I really would like a machine that can pull some logs or a loaded trailer up these 3 trails. Probably have 80 - 90 cord of firewood down in those 2 sections of woods.

The steepest trail we can reliably pull a full trailer load of wood up or get the ranger up with the dump box fully loaded is right around 30%. (16.7 degrees.)

I am surprised at how much steeper I thought each one of those slopes/trails are.
 
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