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Old 05-16-2006, 09:06 AM
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Default Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

I've got a couple Galaxy 50 scooters with 49cc Yamaha 1 cylinder 4 cycle engines in them. One starts. One does not.

I put a fresh battery in the dead unit. I put fresh premium gas in the dead unit. The spark plug is firing. Last night I narrowed it down to fuel, it appears to have a vaccuum fuel pump. No clue how that works. But it seems like the fuel is not getting to the engine.

And to top it all off, the entire owners manual is in CHINESE.
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:44 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Skurka
I've got a couple Galaxy 50 scooters
I knew you had two of everything



Wish I could help but I slept through the Chinese lessons in school.

Jim
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Did you leave gas in the scooter over the winter without using stabil ? Todays gas costs more than ever, but is the worst s##t for running engines on they've ever come up with. The aeromatics will boil off the fuel, leaving what looks & smells like gas, but won't atomize properly to make a good mixture. I had some fuel in my arctic cat quad turn stale last year from the end of may to the middle of july. We were on vacation & busy with other family stuff & hadn't had time for any 4 wheeler riding & when i did get it out, it would hardly start, & wouldn't run above about 1/3 throttle. I had to pull the carb, clean it out completely, drain the tank, and then it was back to normal. (All this on a NEW quad with less than 100 miles on it !)
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Skurka
I've got a couple Galaxy 50 scooters with 49cc Yamaha 1 cylinder 4 cycle engines in them. One starts. One does not.

I put a fresh battery in the dead unit. I put fresh premium gas in the dead unit. The spark plug is firing. Last night I narrowed it down to fuel, it appears to have a vaccuum fuel pump. No clue how that works. But it seems like the fuel is not getting to the engine.

And to top it all off, the entire owners manual is in CHINESE.
Can you get it to run with a QUICK shot of ether? If it will start, then run for a second or two, I would agree that it is a problem with the fuel delivery.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Tom. . . there was some residual fuel in the tank, it was treated with Sta-bil. I'd guess it had less than a 1/4 of a tank leftover. Because it was treated last year I did not empty it. But I did fill it full of premium before I tried to start it. I ONLY use premium in my small engines because it seems to foul considerably less when they sit for periods of time (I am far less picky about the fuel I put in my cars).


DaveNay . . . not sure that I could get a spray can of ether into position without some massive disassembly of plastic body panels that look good but make working on the engine a total PITA.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Bob.......These small engines use a vacumn operated fuel pump that has a tube coming from the intake manifold or the crankcase that uses the engine pulses to move a diaphram that pumps the fuel. The little pump uses check valves to prevent backflow of the fuel. You might have a little varnish in the valve assy that is causing the pump to stick........therefore the diaphram does nothing as the fuel flow is blocked. The pumps are a simple design, but are quite small & can clog up with just a minute bit of dirt or gum. Follow the lines back from the carb to find the pump assy.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMLESCOEQUIP
Follow the lines back from the carb to find the pump assy.
And then what?
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Skurka
And then what?
Pull it off & check the lines in & out for fuel. You could just pull the fuel line off the carb & crank it over a time or 2 to see if you're getting fuel TO the carb. If its getting there, then you'll maybe have to pull & clean out the carb. If you aren't getting fuel to the carb. then you have to pull the pump next & dissassemble & clean it. You can get a generic replacement fuel pump at a mower shop for around $15 if the china one can't be repaired. Another trick is to use several psi of compressed air (a blowgun & a rag works for this) to pressurize the fuel tank just a bit(thru the filler cap) to force gas thru the pump to the carb. Do all this testing & cranking outside !!!!!!!
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMLESCOEQUIP
Another trick is to use several psi of compressed air (a blowgun & a rag works for this) to pressurize the fuel tank just a bit(thru the filler cap) to force gas thru the pump to the carb. Do all this testing & cranking outside !!!!!!!
That's the approach I was thinking. I would disconnect the fuel line from the carb and do this to see what happens. Once you get fuel to come out, re-attach and try to start it.
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

By the way, Bob......Several psi means 2-3 #........This is a case where more is NOT better !!
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Make sure if you have a fuel strainer on the tank or a filter in line that neither is plugged. Check for vacuum line leak and then for fuel pump diaphragm/valve type problems. The diaphragm in the vacuum pump sometimes will gum up and not move to pump fuel. You can always prime through the fuel line between the pump and carb if you can get the line out and above the carb level.

If all else fails shoot some WD40 into the spark plug opening and see if it will run as a fuel primer. WD40 works like ether but is maybe safer and easier on the motor. Good luck.
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Hey guys thanks for the help. I may not know what I am doing, but I now have some direction and hopefully can figure out how to do it. The engine seems pretty simple, the hardest part may be taking off all the decorative plastic cowling and body panels so I can get to the parts.


BTW, Tom I'm glad you told me to do this outside, I was planning on using the lovely Mrs_B's new sofa as a lift so I didn't have to lay on the ground!
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Old 05-16-2006, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Skurka


BTW, Tom I'm glad you told me to do this outside, I was planning on using the lovely Mrs_B's new sofa as a lift so I didn't have to lay on the ground!
Good thinking !!!!! A guy can't be TOO comfortable if He's got a big job to do, Bob !!!!
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Old 05-16-2006, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Skurka
BTW, Tom I'm glad you told me to do this outside, I was planning on using the lovely Mrs_B's new sofa as a lift so I didn't have to lay on the ground!
I just take the cushions. Much lighter than the whole thing. You can also slide them under the truck/tractor for more comfort.
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Old 05-16-2006, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by bczoom
I just take the cushions. Much lighter than the whole thing. You can also slide them under the truck/tractor for more comfort.
Just don't forget to turn them over before putting them back on the couch !
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMLESCOEQUIP
Just don't forget to turn them over before putting them back on the couch !

Heck if you would have told me that last fall we wouldn't have a NEW couch this spring
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

The scooter now works!

There was an obstruction in the vacuum pump AND, the pump was apparently installed improperly to begin with. The obstruction caused the current problem, but as I have 2 indentical scooters, this one was always harder to start and always ran worse than the other one. It appears that the pump was installed about 30-degrees off of vertical, there was a small detent where the pump lines up to, it was not installed lined up to that detent but was twisted off line. It now runs great!

Thanks for your help.

And yes, I did put the couch cushions back . . . dirty side down.
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- Ayn Rand
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Skurka
The scooter now works!

There was an obstruction in the vacuum pump AND, the pump was apparently installed improperly to begin with. The obstruction caused the current problem, but as I have 2 indentical scooters, this one was always harder to start and always ran worse than the other one. It appears that the pump was installed about 30-degrees off of vertical, there was a small detent where the pump lines up to, it was not installed lined up to that detent but was twisted off line. It now runs great!

Thanks for your help.

And yes, I did put the couch cushions back . . . dirty side down.
That's great. It's usually something fairly simple, just the time it takes to find it.

Jim
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim slagle
It's usually something fairly simple, just the time it takes to find it
Well I am a small engine idiot. I do not like working on them and don't have a clue what to do with them when I have to work on them. I am capable of tracing back wires and hoses, and considering that is about all there is on this little 1 cylinder unit, I think I got lucky.

However, it has confirmed my belief that Chinese made goods are inferior products. The engine on this unit is a Yamaha "licensed" engine that is a copy of a Yamaha. In fact the whole scooter is a Chinese copy of a Yamaha scooter. But I've seen the genuine Yamaha, and I've obviously seen the intimate parts of mine. There is a GOOD REASON why the Japanese made Yamaha costs more than the Chinese Galaxy. . . everything, and I mean every part, on the Japanese Yamaha is of higher quality, has greater detail, and of higher build standard than the Chinese copy . . . eventhough the Chinese copy is a 'licensed' product, it is still far lower in quality.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Scooter won't start! Need help. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Skurka
However, it has confirmed my belief that Chinese made goods are inferior products. The engine on this unit is a Yamaha "licensed" engine that is a copy of a Yamaha. In fact the whole scooter is a Chinese copy of a Yamaha scooter. But I've seen the genuine Yamaha, and I've obviously seen the intimate parts of mine. There is a GOOD REASON why the Japanese made Yamaha costs more than the Chinese Galaxy. . . everything, and I mean every part, on the Japanese Yamaha is of higher quality, has greater detail, and of higher build standard than the Chinese copy . . . eventhough the Chinese copy is a 'licensed' product, it is still far lower in quality.
I've come to the same conclusion about those chinese yamaha clones Bob. They clone the Honda engines too. Where did you get these at? I know i've seen them on e bay but do the yamaha dealers sell these clones too?

Thanks,
Dur
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