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"GREEN JOBS" -a bad business model will always fail, even with Gov't support

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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"GREEN JOBS" -a bad business model will always fail, even with Gov't support

Spain embarked on a "GREEN JOBS" economic model about a decade ago and found out that it costs more to create the green jobs than they can return. Private investors are now finding the same thing here in the USA as GREEN COMPANIES are failing to produce the first penny of profit, even after the Government steps in with guaranteed loan, grants, and publicity.

The Washington Times is now jumping on the bandwagon to expose a farce when it sees one. This is only a small portion of the article. But read carefully the part about commercial wind farms where it says they cannot exist without government subsidies. What that really means, if you explore the costs and efficiencies of commercial wind farms, is that the cost to generate 1 watt of wind power is roughly DOUBLE the cost of generating the same 1 watt at a natural gas, coal or nuclear facility. So if, or perhaps when, the subsidies granted to these commercial wind farms ends, the cost of our electricity will skyrocket. Just south of me about 40 miles is one of the largest wind farms in the world. It cuts a path across miles of north central Indiana and you can see the giant wind turbines stretching in every direction for much farther than your eye can see. The Federal Government subsidized this wind farm. But the Fed's are now broke, they haven't admitted it yet.

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/11/promises-of-green-jobs-start-withering-on-vine/print/

The green-jobs revolution may be going up in smoke.

Despite billions of dollars in federal investment and cheerleading from President Obama, even the most ardent supporters of a transformed, job-generating energy sector based largely on wind, solar and other renewable sources acknowledge that their dreams have not translated into reality. The records for other countries chasing green employment opportunities have been equally unimpressive.

Rep. Maxine Waters, California Democrat, told MSNBC last month that, despite impassioned support from liberal Democrats and environmentalists, "green jobs" initiatives "have been about a lot of talk, and not a lot has been happening on that."

The absence of a promised boom in environmental jobs has become a talking point among Republicans who are campaigning to unseat Mr. Obama in the 2012 election.

Mr. Obama "keeps talking about green jobs," former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said during the GOP candidates debate Wednesday night. "Where are they? Let's have real jobs."

Talk of green jobs was conspicuous by its absence from Mr. Obama's jobs speech to a joint session of Congress on Thursday night. He gave the address on the same day that the FBI raided California solar-energy company Solyndra, which filed for bankruptcy and laid off at least 900 full-time employees.

. . .

Solyndra was the latest in a string of solar bankruptcies this year. Others are New York-based SpectraWatt and Michigan's Evergreen Solar.

Critics aren't surprised. Spain and other European countries have embraced green-jobs programs only to see higher-than-expected costs and little payoff. A 2009 study by Madrid's King Juan Carlos University found that the creation of every green job eliminated at least 2.2 jobs in other industries . . .

Some traditional-fuel companies left the country in favor of more level playing fields elsewhere, the report says.

. . .

Mr. Kish and many others think large-scale wind and solar projects are inherently unprofitable, largely as a result of the unpredictability of when the sun will shine brightly enough and when the wind will blow. Without government subsidies, he said, such projects would have no chance of competing with oil, natural gas, nuclear power or coal.

"This is a government-created bubble. I don't blame the companies trying to rip off the government. What I blame are politicians who refuse to look at the facts," he said.

Those facts, however, aren't always easy to discern. Both sides of the argument point to a dizzying array of numbers, charts, graphs and price figures to support their points of view. Environmental groups and wind and solar proponents strongly dispute the King Juan Carlos study and have accused its author, Dr. Gabriel Calzada, of distorting the truth.​
The story continues, please see the link above for the remainder of the piece
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: "GREEN JOBS" -a bad business model will always fail, even with Gov't support

In Iowa there is an on going race between the two major power companies to get enough wind energy online, so no one else can build. They want 100% of wind generation to be owned by them. By the time the regulators aprove private projects the line capacity will be all used up by the power compaies. They sure know how this game is played, and will easyily be able to run out the clock, before the private plans are approved for building permits.

Not likely I will get any towers here, the Germans who would have built, can see the writing on the wall here in Iowa. Maybe I didn't want them anyway, guess I will never know. The money for land rent would have been nice.

Like the artical says, maybe they are not a good idea in the end.

Regards, Kirk
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: "GREEN JOBS" -a bad business model will always fail, even with Gov't support

DaveNay has a tower just across the border of his property, its close enough to him that he hears it at night/all night but its just far enough away that he doesn't collect income from it. I thought he might have jumped on this thread when I posted it to call wind energy what it really is.

People mistakenly assume that all electricity costs the same. I was talking to a manager of one of my stores one day about the windmills, she had no idea that they are so inefficiently and so expensive to build/maintain that the energy generated costs TWICE AS MUCH as if the same wattage would have been produced in a coal or natural gas or nuclear or hydroelectric plant.

I asked her if she was willing to pay twice as much :ermm:
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: "GREEN JOBS" -a bad business model will always fail, even with Gov't support

The main problem with wind energy is reliability and availability of power. All electric utilities must have enough installed mw to power everything at peak. Baseline power must be there, as the name suggests, the base line of power consumption.

Here in the midwest, the highest energy usage is on those days when a high pressure dome settles in, the temperature goes up to 95f, rh goes to 80, and there is no wind. Now what are we to do with no wind, yet our power source is the wind? Better eat that ice cream real fast........
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Re: "GREEN JOBS" -a bad business model will always fail, even with Gov't support

The main problem with wind energy is reliability and availability of power. All electric utilities must have enough installed mw to power everything at peak. Baseline power must be there, as the name suggests, the base line of power consumption.

Here in the midwest, the highest energy usage is on those days when a high pressure dome settles in, the temperature goes up to 95f, rh goes to 80, and there is no wind. Now what are we to do with no wind, yet our power source is the wind? Better eat that ice cream real fast........

Many times also the opposite, it is extremely cold and no wind. It just seems like when the Utilities really need the wind power it is not there.
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: "GREEN JOBS" -a bad business model will always fail, even with Gov't support

Yepper on that!

But that's what fireplaces are for.....
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: "GREEN JOBS" -a bad business model will always fail, even with Gov't support

The German company I am working with has technology that we do not have. they have a gearless generator design that is more efiecient, but has not be able to be used here because fo a GE patent that over laps some thing they have. Their's has no 120/1 gear box, it makes power at hub speed and lasts 40 years instead of 20. The operational costs of maintanance are much lower as well. I am a bit disapointed as I was going to get a substantial ammount for my land use, as well as my time. But if they are not here I won't have to live with them either..

Waybomb, your right about high preasure domes. At best these things run about 1/3 of the time. At worste, less than 20%. After dark, most nights the winds lay down as well.

Big waste of time and money? Maybe...

Kirk
 
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