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  #1  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:17 AM
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Default 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Engineless Tucker... That thing will be a topic for discussion for a bit, my apologizes! :)

Anywho, being that engine is removed, it had its steering/hydro pump removed, one that runs off on a pulley from the engine.

Seems at this point I'm setting on/looking for the 6.0L Vortec GMs v8 with 4L60 tranny for the swap (in case that info is needed in setting me right direction).

I know that some guys here have upgraded the steering components due to underpower or overheat of the hydro system while using it on the trail.

I would like to do it right the first time, hoping for everyone's knowledge/experience input, and we could all come together on possibly ideal parts list that I'll need to put in so this will work the right way.

So anyone with input, let it be your time to shine! I'm humbly waiting for answers on the steering components, while looking for the engine.

p.s. if there is a few $$$ difference for upgraded version of parts, I'm willing sacrifice few bucks to bring up the "value" of the cat! :) After all, gotta stick with the high price tag after the purchase price! :) j/k

Thanks and happy spring time!
(i'm kinda hoping to get this thing running for a test run this season yet)
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  #2  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

call Clyde at Tucker Sno-Cat lnc. he is the man with all the factory answers

otherwise, Blackfoot Tucker is a very good source for such questions. seems he been there, done that...he truly has done his homework, and very much trust his knowledge and work.

oh my God, you don't let the snow flakes melt beneath you tracks,

a test run this spring..... amazing, fabulous ambition,

the factory has had a historically very long relationship with Mopar to power just about all gas engined tuckers, have you considered, even for a moment, a modern Hemi, yes a Mopar Hemi !!! That would help to set your built apart from the others and just might add to it's resell value

yes, other engine used were, Chevy, Ford, Mercury, Anglia, Jeep, Crosley and sure I missed one or two.

Last edited by Pontoon Princess; 03-24-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

https://www.mopar.com/content/dam/mo...ne_Catalog.pdf


Pick one and have a credit card handy. The 345 would be nice.
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Ebay has Tesla model s motors with drive for around $3000.00 One you tube conversion a guy put one in a Honda with chevy volt battery pack. The story claims 585 hp. in the video he is seen doing a wheelie. You could mount a small generator for field charge. Ive been playing around with battery modules from a Nissan Leaf and made my own 7kw power wall for the cabin that works very well and can be charged off of my generator. As well as stepping into the future that combination would be much liter than any kind of conventional drive system. as a side benefit electrical motors have full torque at 1 RPM and no need for transmission just connect with shaft to transfer case. no clutch nothing.
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikson View Post
Anywho, being that engine is removed, it had its steering/hydro pump removed, one that runs off on a pulley from the engine.


Thanks and happy spring time!
(i'm kinda hoping to get this thing running for a test run this season yet)
OK.

JUST to be clear.
1) Your pump is not there.?
2) are the lines there for Aux out puts to the rear?
3) did the machine ever have a blade on the front?

Why I ask:
I tried the "different pump route" on a 1542 ext cab. the priority valve was tricky for me to get the steering proper.

Track addicts has the part number of the vickers pump you need, it has an internal priority valve in it and its function is very important to the balance of the cat.

The steering design on the tuckers is almost as poorly designed as the axle bushings for the carriers.

As Jinn said, call clyde and see if he can get you the flow rates and pressures.


Useful info above:
Ramblings of a lunatic below.... read at your own risk.....

I gave up and ordered a pump from tucker, changed the shaft myself to accept the pulley properly and still need to spend some time on that abortion tucker calls a pump mount. FWIW....I do like tuckers for what they are, My favorite clowder quote...." Brilliant concept, Poor execution of design"
and before anyone lights me up on how they can go to napa to buy all the parts they need to maintain one...... Just go look up anything that you may actually need such as an RK idler or $800 poly sleeve at the Napa site
I am fresh home from a State called snow mobile club convention and Tucker is on many clubs shit list. Tucker is parts supply deficient and many owners are struggling with broken equipment... there is a lot of passion and brand loyalty between Orange, red and green grooming equipment they all have their place. but not being able to get a phone call returned is horrible for future business and future sales.

rant over.
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  #6  
Old 03-24-2019, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Tucker used the Vickers V20P pump, and in fact still uses it. The pump is modular, being assembled with various components to create a pump with specific performance characteristics. You can change some of the components to completely change the pumps output volume and pressure. Vickers is very proud of their parts, and aftermarket parts can be had MUCH cheaper.

Tucker used different pump configurations depending on the individual snowcat’s options. I would highly suggest calling Tucker with the serial number of your machine and asking for the original order sheet. They’ll look it up and email or fax you a copy. There is a lot of valuable information there (though less so if you swap out a bunch of parts) and the pumps original configuration will be listed. Typically machines equipped with a factory blade and/or auxiliary hydraulics will have a pump with greater output volume, and longer tracked machines will have greater output pressure as well.

When Vickers assembles a pump there is a number stamped on it that lists the pumps configuration as it was when it left the factory. My understanding is Tucker would normally change at least the output pressure when the pump was installed on a machine, so I wouldn’t go by the pumps stamped numbers.

Realize increased volume from the priority valve cover makes the steering faster, and increased pressure makes the steering easier.

We modified the pump on Thundercat by increasing the output volume and output pressure based on recommendations from Jeff Godard at Tucker. Our setup now mirrors that on the current Tucker model 2000 XL. But Thundercat is a long track machine with a front blade, and the extra track length and extra weight from the blade would result in different specifics than a machine with shorter tracks and without the blade. I would suggest you talk with Tucker and get their current thoughts on what they think is the optimal setup for your machine.
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  #7  
Old 03-25-2019, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

So far, best advise - contact Tucker...

on power plants, HEMI's arent very common to find as a donor for a good reasonable price, and if I was - as I would like - it would have been a 6.2L Supercharged from Hellcat, and those donors go for almost price of a cat at a salvage auction, not seing how that would be a "value" during a resale.. vs say a very easily modifiable and reliable 6.0L GM's LQ9/LS motor... (just saying)
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

So I guess next question/request I'll have... any engine compartment pictures if anyone got any, post them up please so I can figure where what goes where :)

and I thought delivery of it would be the hardest part... LOL
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Any thoughts of a duramax with allison? seems that would be a high torque diesel with some sort of fuel economy. also being turbocharged have no issues at higher altitude. just wondering. Don
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  #10  
Old 03-25-2019, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

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Originally Posted by loggah View Post
Any thoughts of a duramax with allison? seems that would be a high torque diesel with some sort of fuel economy. also being turbocharged have no issues at higher altitude. just wondering. Don
Ditto that. If no handy Nissan diesels that you were wanting, there are certainly plenty of DuraMax's w/ Allison's out there.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsqwrl View Post
OK.

JUST to be clear.
1) Your pump is not there.?
2) are the lines there for Aux out puts to the rear?
3) did the machine ever have a blade on the front?

Why I ask:
I tried the "different pump route" on a 1542 ext cab. the priority valve was tricky for me to get the steering proper.

Track addicts has the part number of the vickers pump you need, it has an internal priority valve in it and its function is very important to the balance of the cat.

The steering design on the tuckers is almost as poorly designed as the axle bushings for the carriers.

As Jinn said, call clyde and see if he can get you the flow rates and pressures.


Useful info above:
Ramblings of a lunatic below.... read at your own risk.....

I gave up and ordered a pump from tucker, changed the shaft myself to accept the pulley properly and still need to spend some time on that abortion tucker calls a pump mount. FWIW....I do like tuckers for what they are, My favorite clowder quote...." Brilliant concept, Poor execution of design"
and before anyone lights me up on how they can go to napa to buy all the parts they need to maintain one...... Just go look up anything that you may actually need such as an RK idler or $800 poly sleeve at the Napa site
I am fresh home from a State called snow mobile club convention and Tucker is on many clubs shit list. Tucker is parts supply deficient and many owners are struggling with broken equipment... there is a lot of passion and brand loyalty between Orange, red and green grooming equipment they all have their place. but not being able to get a phone call returned is horrible for future business and future sales.

rant over.

Redsqwrl,

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm curious...I've found the Tucker steering system to be simple in design and it's worked well for me, so I'm genuinely curious what you don't like about it. (I suppose from a technical purity standpoint Tucker should have used a balanced hydraulic cylinder rather than an unbalanced one, but those are a lot more expensive and I'm not sure one is even available in the right size.)

Parts-wise, I'm also at a bit of a loss; especially when comparing the parts availability of a Tucker against that of a Snow Trac or a Thiokol/DMC/LMC (all companies no longer in business). I too had issues last fall getting return phone calls from Tucker, and I agree it's frustrating. That's not been the norm, as in previous calls over roughly ten years it's never been a problem. My perception (and that's all it is) is that Tucker has had a number of personnel changes recently. New people in new jobs that they are trying to figure out. There's always a learning curve in a new job, and while that's taking place it's common that things fall off a bit. I think of Tucker more as a designer and assembler and not so much a manufacturer. That means they don't physically make many parts themselves, but rather purchase either off-the-shelf parts or have suppliers make parts to Tucker's specifications. In the latter case I suspect there's a fair bit of lead time to get those parts. I also suspect the parts ordering and inventory management tasks are challenging, to say the least. All that said though, I called Mountain Services (an aftermarket company specializing in recovering idler wheel and dive sprockets as well as offering replacement belting) and couldn't get them to return my calls, so Tucker's (lack of) customer service is not only an issue with them.

Tucker's parts pricing is something I'm genuinely struggling with. I've been messing with Tuckers for just over ten years and while there has certainly been general inflation since then, Tucker's price increases are obscene. Inflation calculators show a rise of roughly 18% in that period and yet Tucker's prices are up on the order of three times that; at least on the parts I've ordered. I prefer OEM parts, but when the manufacturer gouges the customer to that extent - I look elsewhere. I tend to be a very loyal customer right up until I'm mistreated. And at that point it's really hard to regain my loyalty. Tucker...I hope you're listening!

But, to play devil's advocate a bit, I remember a thread from roughly a year ago discussing I believe a Pisten Bully Scout that had been involved in an accident and I was blown away by the price of a Pisten Bully axle; and it wasn't even a drive axle. I'm not sure "stratospheric" has enough emphasis to be descriptive (and in my lexicon that's several orders of magnitude above "outrageous" or egregious").

Over the course of my experience of working on Tuckers I've been very disappointed in some "quality aspects" of Tucker workmanship. In some cases; pathetically done tasks with mistakes that should have been caught and fixed by a quality control program. That they weren't is an indictment of Tucker's then manufacturing processes. But the new machines (IMHO) are built much better. But they're also much more sophisticated, which means more difficult to repair...
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2019, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

as I"m not the one to take any side (at all), but in my few years of tinkering with cat projects I've found that unless you are working on new models that are still in production, dont expect to find easy to deal with customer service and parts supply.


One must learn to fab on the go and be witty enough to figure it out.

And as its been said before, we all make better burgers that McD's, but they are the ones racking in the big bucks... just saying... :)
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

to answer Mike's Qs



1) Your pump is not there.?


No


2) are the lines there for Aux out puts to the rear?


No


3) did the machine ever have a blade on the front?


No
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Remember I am a groomer puller, when you put a massive load of snow in a 30+ foot drag behind a lattice framed over the snow machine that mechanical pitman arm assembly will twist as the rear turn plate has load unlike the front. there is no relief (nor am I suggesting there should be) so when the engine rpm comes down and a tired bored operator executes a poorly timed turn then quickly corrects tie rods pay hell. once the system is roughed up it is no longer the machines fault as it is off tracking one way or the other. why they use single clamped tie rods, they should be clamped on both ends.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfoot Tucker View Post
Redsqwrl,

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm curious...I've found the Tucker steering system to be simple in design and it's worked well for me

the mechanical side of the system is my beef, Two rams would solve a lot of bent tie rods and the steering woes.


Parts-wise, I'm also at a bit of a loss;

For the general enthusiast mill machines and lathes are not in the normal mans garage. so you and i are out of this equation as, if we need it we will make it... the carrier bushing kit sold by tucker is a piece of schedule 40 tubing and a poly sleeve all tuckers even with proper lubrication will need these, It is easy to see on most machines. unless you own the machine. then you deny it, at least I do.... that kit is grossly over price, you covered that below.


especially when comparing the parts availability of a Tucker against that of a Snow Trac or a Thiokol/DMC/LMC (all companies no longer in business). I too had issues last fall getting return phone calls from Tucker, and I agree it's frustrating. s. In the latter case I suspect there's a fair bit of lead time to get those parts, so Tucker's (lack of) customer service is not only an issue with them.

There is not one $600 Ice breaker to had from a dealer right now.
It was a good snow year, and you hit it on the head, This niche market was caught off guard. My bitch is R&K wheel makes a wheel that fits, many of the tuckers here on the forum can be seen sporting them, even the high dollar refurbished machines are forced to install them. I can by the non tucker version of the tucker wheel for $110 delivered. tucker putting a little heavier cover on it and their name adds $300. I have no problem with that and agree with your explanation.

but NO normal consumer is getting either from napa
.

I tend to be a very loyal customer right up until I'm mistreated. And at that point it's really hard to regain my loyalty. Tucker...I hope you're listening!

a tucker is becoming a hard sell in Wisconsin. the loyal orange only clubs are buying tractors and putting tracks on them. they are taking a good concept and applying a better execution (remember we work our machines here) and think about this for a minute.
A case ih tractor is about 16,000 lbs...... 2019 tucker with the dana 110's is close to the same. ( let that sink in for a minute )


Two track front axles have a lot going on, not making excuses on value,
but if tucker can charge 600 for a drive sprocket. Oh and you need 8 of them to drive your 7900 tracks of which you need 4...... Ugh just the thought
of how a club with $10,480 of annual revenue is supposed to keep up on the maintenance then watch the machine site all summer long


. I'm not sure "stratospheric" has enough emphasis to be descriptive (and in my lexicon that's several orders of magnitude above "outrageous" or egregious").

a similarly sized track on construction equipment is less than 1/2 from the same company Camso or what ever they are called these days...


Over the course of my experience of working on Tuckers I've been very disappointed in some "quality aspects" of Tucker workmanship. In some cases; pathetically done tasks with mistakes that should have been caught and fixed by a quality control program. That they weren't is an indictment of Tucker's then manufacturing processes. But the new machines (IMHO) are built much better. But they're also much more sophisticated, which means more difficult to repair...
The new machines are over built in my opinion.

so to wrap up my rant. Tuckers are cool, the Mr. Tucker senior story to true merican gold. stuff legends are made of.

But the notion of a tucker being easy and cheap to maintain is a bit over sold. the items you can get at napa don't break or wear. to keep a tucker operating as is should requires some tucker specific parts Wisconsin used to have multiple tucker dealers, Now there are two dealers and a factory for all of north america.
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  #15  
Old 03-26-2019, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

I think the big tucker pump is overkill unless your going to use the remote hydraulics. Steering really shouldn’t need a lot of flow and any excess will just put the system in bypass and build heat.
A variable displacement pump is ideal but they tend to be expensive.

If I was starting from scratch I would look into using an aftermarket automotive power steering pump like the off-road guys use for steering and hydraulic winch’s or maybe a stock pump from one of the modern diesels they run steering and brakes. Some research on automotive pump displacement would give you the flow and psi info to make a decision.

If your putting a blade and needed more flow maybe put two pumps as separate systems, it could be made redundant for safety as a bonus.

Looking forward to the build!
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Old 03-26-2019, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikson View Post
So I guess next question/request I'll have... any engine compartment pictures if anyone got any, post them up please so I can figure where what goes where :)

and I thought delivery of it would be the hardest part... LOL
Here are some photos. First ones are of Snowzilla; a 1980 machine originally built as a 1543 (The tracks and carriers were later converted to 1600 series). This has the Chrysler 318 Industrial engine and the water pump inlet is on the left (driver's) side. Tucker therefore mounted the pump on the right side of the engine. (You can tell it's all original stuff as it has orange paint over spray courtesy of Tucker's lazy painter.)

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The hydraulic tank and filter.

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Left side showing water pump inlet.

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These photos are taken from a 1986 Tucker 1544. This has the slightly larger Chrysler 360 Industrial engine and the water pump inlet is on the right side, so they mounted the hydraulic pump on the left.

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Different view.

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Here's the hydraulic tank and filter. It's mounted in the same location; on the firewall on the right side. The large diameter pump supply line runs behind the engine on top of the bell housing and over to the pump.

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Water pump inlet on the right side.

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  #17  
Old 03-27-2019, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Thanks for pictures...
On my first call to Tucker, spoke with Sterling, as Clyde wasnt available :? I guess

In any case, got my build sheet emailed, seems like nothing unusual for a build, but all is there.

Vickers V20P pump with 8in pulley and 8 on the "RING" line as well (if anyone clarifies, would be great).

So at this point, no surprise, just as it is, will be going with a 6.0 v8 by GM for multiple reasons of my own as well as bunch of other ones.

Those who understand - great, those who dont - sorry, but as I mentioned - this will be a BudBuild and not a restoration/sticking to conformation of other opinions kinda build.

My goal is to make a functional machine, that makes sense to me, even if it dont to others, you can look it at it as my learning curve... :) (love ya all)

So with that said, I guess RPM ranges will be close to the factory ones as it will be a gasser and not diesel (didnt want to regear either).

Now that we are sure what was there factory, what are known better factory options, as in closed/open circuit flow (or whatever else was spoken), it was apparently abit higher priced but better in certain way.

I would like to see if I can install something thats headache free, can be used non-stop for a 20-25mile trip non stop if needed for example without having to worry about things getting hot.

p.s. also, if I decide to run a blade up front, whats the best option to run with at this point, as in got hydro with a bigger pump off the start then, or stick with the new models that run off an electrical style pump?
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  #18  
Old 03-28-2019, 12:21 AM
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Tye one on Tye one on is offline
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

You know who has a blade for that don’t ya? Pointy chops, came off his new blue Tucker. Hit him up, may make ya a great deal.
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  #19  
Old 03-28-2019, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: 1980 Tucker 1544 Steering Pump and component

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikson View Post
Thanks for pictures...
On my first call to Tucker, spoke with Sterling, as Clyde wasnt available :? I guess

In any case, got my build sheet emailed, seems like nothing unusual for a build, but all is there.

Vickers V20P pump with 8in pulley and 8 on the "RING" line as well (if anyone clarifies, would be great).

So at this point, no surprise, just as it is, will be going with a 6.0 v8 by GM for multiple reasons of my own as well as bunch of other ones.

Those who understand - great, those who dont - sorry, but as I mentioned - this will be a BudBuild and not a restoration/sticking to conformation of other opinions kinda build.

My goal is to make a functional machine, that makes sense to me, even if it dont to others, you can look it at it as my learning curve... :) (love ya all)

So with that said, I guess RPM ranges will be close to the factory ones as it will be a gasser and not diesel (didnt want to regear either).

Now that we are sure what was there factory, what are known better factory options, as in closed/open circuit flow (or whatever else was spoken), it was apparently abit higher priced but better in certain way.

I would like to see if I can install something thats headache free, can be used non-stop for a 20-25mile trip non stop if needed for example without having to worry about things getting hot.

p.s. also, if I decide to run a blade up front, whats the best option to run with at this point, as in got hydro with a bigger pump off the start then, or stick with the new models that run off an electrical style pump?
The "ring" determines the pump's volumetric output. An "8 ring" would produce 8 gallons per minute. Realize though, the rating is based on 1200 pump (not engine) RPM, and 2400 pump RPM would produce twice as much volumetric output. Rings are easily changed and higher output rings are longer.

In the Snowzilla thread I went into a fair bit of detail on the Vickers pump. Here's a link to the thread (If you don't want to wade through everything, the pump info is on post number 32): http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=78612
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