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THIOKOL/LMC/DMC Technical Issues Forum Technical repair issues & questions for Thiokol/DMC/LMC

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  #1  
Old 10-19-2018, 09:36 PM
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Default Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

I am thinking to mount a winch on the front of my tilt deck trailer to have more controlled loading and unloading of my cat, especially in tight areas like inside my shop. I had a couple of questions I was hoping someone with experience in this could help me out with:

1. If my cat has a gvwr of 3800 pounds fully loaded what size winch do I need?

2. Would it be safe to mount the winch plate to the front frame rail of the trailer using U-bolts? (picture below) I am not sure I can even get I flush due to the ram.

3. I was thinking of using a pullzall or a come along to do the unloading, any thoughts on this?

4. Anyone have any ideas on how I could unload the cat (1404 Imp) safely without any power or brakes on the cat?

Thanks for any pointers.
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:07 AM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

REALLY----SELL YOUR CAT----ARE YOU KIDDING----YOUR FORD F150 WEIGHTS MORE THAN THAT-----DID U REALLY POST THOSE QUESTIONS---U NEED A REAL LIFE----LOL NO WINCH NEEDED----JUST HAD TO DO IT -----BOARING
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2018, 01:32 AM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

Huh? What does any of that even mean? Why are you yelling all the time?
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

A 5K lb. winch would be more than enough, a 3K would probably work..

I think the U bolt idea would be handy, but given your tilt cylinder is kind of in the way, a plate welded to the frame behind the lift cylinder would be more permanent, and stronger.

Dead cats are the real reason for a winch. You should not actually need one for simple loading and unloading. Your Imp should very controllable climbing on and off, unless your deck is covered in ice. Keep your trailer scooped clean of snow, and this will not happen... btw..

Regards, Kirk
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Old 10-20-2018, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by topwelder44 View Post
REALLY----SELL YOUR CAT----ARE YOU KIDDING----YOUR FORD F150 WEIGHTS MORE THAN THAT-----DID U REALLY POST THOSE QUESTIONS---U NEED A REAL LIFE----LOL NO WINCH NEEDED----JUST HAD TO DO IT -----BOARING
Topwelder44, you are the definition of dickhead. The guy has a newbie question about his snowcat and that is your idiotic response? By the way, besides the yelling, why don't you learn how to spell....Bob
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Old 10-20-2018, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

When it comes to sizing winches, I recall a rule of thumb that the winch capacity should be 1 1/2 times the gross vehicle weight; so about 6K lbs. Something to keep in mind is that the winch capacity rating is measured with the winch cable's first winding on the drum. That sounds a bit confusing but basically the cable is contacting the drum- when the cable is almost fully payed out. If you have a 100' cable, the winch's capacity is significantly reduced when the cable is mostly on the drum.

Adding a snatch block, or pulley doubles the winch's power. You could attach a snatch block to your Imp and run the cable through that and then hook the end back to the trailer near the winch. (Of course that also doubles the length of time to winch the cable in.)

The photo of the trailer doesn't really show the whole setup, but I'm (somewhat) speculating your trailer is the type often paired with an Imp with the deck open in the center and the track areas covered with expanded metal. I would think you'd want the winch attached to the front of the tilt deck, so when the deck tilts up the winch does as well. That might involve a fairly simple bracket welded to the trailer the winch bolts to.

Until recently I had a somewhat hokey trailer setup with railroad tie cribbing used to get the tracks above the fenders. That also meant a couple of large wood blocks on top of the ramps to help the tracks get to the top of the railroad ties. In near ideal conditions; no problem, but there were a few white knuckle loading experiences when the machine started going sideways while loading. NOT fun, and a winch would have made for a much more controlled process.

Good Luck...I think it's a great idea!
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2018, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

This is how I loaded a dead cat. Winch on the cat assisted by the Jeep's winch connected with a pulley system. The cat winch was pretty weak without the engine running. We ran a set of jumper cables out to another vehicle. It worked.
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

X2 with Blackfoot Tucker recommendation of 1-1/2 times max load weight.
There are some decent winch’s out now for reasonable prices such as Smittybuilt. I think even Warn makes small ones now reasonably priced.

Mounting a winch is fairly easy, just make sure the winch is mounted securely. If your not sure about it consult someone who is in the know. You can also hook the cable to the end of the trailer and give it a pull stall test. You don’t want the winch pulling off and flying at your face, or even worse the snowcat sliding off the trailer and getting damaged!

You’ll need to mount a battery also, or run some power cable to the back of the tow rig.

A come-a-long is an good emergency backup I always carry one, but is not a very good primary for this kind of stuff.

Good luck with your project
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Old 10-20-2018, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

Another thing that you can do if the trailer is dedicated to that cat is mount two
4x4 or 6x6 narrower than the inside of the tracks and it keeps the cat from sliding sideways when loading or unloading and even traveling.

We have seen snowcats come off the side especially on iced metal decks
Itís not good for people or the cats if it drops off the side.
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  #10  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

Thanks for all the responses, this has given me some good ideas. The trailer I have is for a Spryte and not an Imp, so the center channel is too wide to fit between the tracks. I was thinking to sell this trailer and try and find one for the Imp but not that easy where I am, and I like that the cat is higher off the ground so it is not eating as much of the salt and gravel from the road. Plus I can carry extra gear, even a sled on the back of the trailer with the cat loaded. I had to bolt some wood planks to the deck to raise the tracks about a quarter inch above the channel rails as to not bend or break the grousers when loading or the cat. The problem is that when the wood freezes it gives nothing for the grousers to bite into and it slides all over the place or worse - it can't even climb. I had a few bad experiences last year even when loading, even on a snowmobile ramp where I almost slid off the side when I braked. My original plan was to staple some old snowmobile track to the planks but I can't find any. Makes me wonder where all the old track goes. I think this year I am just going to move the channel rails closer together as well. For the guys with the sprytes and matching trailer, roughly how much space is there between the channel rail and the inside track?
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

I welded a couple of hitch receivers to the front rail and mounted the winch on one of those trailer hitch winch plates and also welded a couple of L shape square irons to the bottom of the hitch plate to slide in the hitch receivers on the trailer. This way I can remove the hitch so it's not in the weather and open to the thieves. I can also take the winch with me and mount it to the hitch reciever on the cat as well or use it with my truck. So far works pretty good with a wireless remote to unload the cat and remove the tracks at the same time. I am going to beef up the welds and brace the hitch receivers a little better as well when i finish up rebuilding the trailer. I also replaced the some rotted out steel in the trailer and am moving the deck rails closer together. I put a car wash style V at the back of the deck rails to help the cat naturally center itself. Will post some more pics when completed.
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  #12  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

Hi Rodre , Those deck over trailers are so high off the ground you end up with a steep angle on the tilt . My Imp came with an original trailer that just barely fits the imp and it has ramps plus tilt and is 30" off the ground I finally bit the bullet and bought a brand new low tilt trailer no ramps and minimum tilt angle . The other trailer was just to stressful to load and unload especially in the snow .
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

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Originally Posted by andyv916 View Post
Hi Rodre , Those deck over trailers are so high off the ground you end up with a steep angle on the tilt . My Imp came with an original trailer that just barely fits the imp and it has ramps plus tilt and is 30" off the ground I finally bit the bullet and bought a brand new low tilt trailer no ramps and minimum tilt angle . The other trailer was just to stressful to load and unload especially in the snow .
Did the original Imp trailer deck sit 30" off the ground? That seems high, what size were the tires? Yeah, I noticed in the pics I seen of the Imp sitting on the factory trailer that the trailer looked too small, but I would think it would load fine in 1/1 gear setting as that is basically crawling speed. I also have some guards for the front of my trailer that stop the cat from rolling off the front if you can't stop in time that are not in the pictures. I figure because this trailer is bigger it will give me a lot of runway to maneuver, plus the center rails will help with it staying centered and not going off the side. I do agree with you on the tilt angle, it is pretty steep but I guess if I am not feeling ballsy I can just use the winch lol

Is your new trailer a flat deck or does it have fenders on the side of the deck? Do you still have the original trailer?
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Old 11-21-2018, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

I also used a winch on another vehicle and a snatch block to load my dead 1404 on to my original Imp trailer.
Although you can't really tell from the photos it was parked on a fairly steep downhill slope so and I was by myself so I also had to attach the Pinzgauer as a deadman behind it so that once it was on the trailer and the trailer tipped forward the cat wouldn't roll over the front of the trailer and into the tow vehicle.
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Old 11-21-2018, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

Are the guard rails at the front of the trailer not enough to stop it from rolling off? The larger trailer I have has a hydraulic ram so the tilting of the trailer up or down is more controlled, however, the hydraulics were tuned for a bigger cat so it can be slow to respond. The first time I was unloading I didn't consider this and almost drove off the back of the trailer before giving the deck enough time to tilt down. I have been thinking if I can tune this for the smaller cat by removing hydraulic fluid out of the ram.

Bobmog, I like your style, go as far as you can with the Pinz then unload the cat? You must go DEEEEEEEEEEEEEP LOL
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Old 11-21-2018, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

More than likely the rails up front would have stopped the cat, they do when I drive it on but then I can brake also. I have a ram as well which slows the tilt. But with the tow truck and trailer facing down a steep grade and no ability for me to use the cat brakes, I didnít want to risk it, thus the anchor.
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Old 11-22-2018, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

I see now, you are right the incline isn't apparent in the photo. For some reason I thought the cat was facing uphill. These damned eyes... Better safe than sorry for sure, I have been left many a time where I didn't account for something and was left blinking wishing what I was looking at would go away while my brain was still tryng to wrap itself around what just happened lol

Does anyone know if I can remove fluid from the ram to adjust the speed it extends and retracts? It has a couple of pipe plugs on either end of it, I just don't want to open another can of worms...
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Old 11-22-2018, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

I am trying to upload three pics of the small imp trailer i have . Pics are after I rebuilt it , it was a disaster when I got it .
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Old 11-22-2018, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Mounting a winch on a tilt deck trailer

I am guessing you extended the axle to lower the deck and added the fenders? That is a really nice and clean looking machine. Is that a glass pack muffler on there? Do you recall the size of it?
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