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THIOKOL/LMC/DMC Technical Issues Forum Technical repair issues & questions for Thiokol/DMC/LMC

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  #21  
Old 05-15-2007, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

I've used KUBOTA UDT (universal drive train) in several oc-12 rears, its for wet bands ,and for hydrayulics that use the rear for a reservior. I don't know if its the best oil, it meets the specs in japan..
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  #22  
Old 05-15-2007, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

On my OC-12 pictured on page one of this thread you can see all the dirt attached to the oil on the oc-12. The whole top plate was loose. Which is why it was leaking oil. Each bolt needed to just ever so be tightened. There were a few real loose ones. My question is, is there a gasket that I can buy for the top or do I just use a tube gasket material?
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2007, 12:39 AM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Well, thanks for asking. In a non-integral , no filter and no cooler system I like the Shell TC-30. Its made for some Caterpillar standard that is suposed to be good to their brake and clutch lining and not eat bronze (chemical reaction of some kind). I once read that Aeroshell had that problem but I think that was a long time ago. Same maker, go figure. TC- 30 is smoother than the Donax TD which will sometimes cause brake band chatter when the oil gets gets hot. If you have a system cooler thats not a problem. TC- 30 doesn't heat up as fast but is noticably thicker in cold temps. Thats why I don't use it in hydraulic systems because its too thick, though it is compatable. It steers good at all temps. They also make a TC-40 and TC-50. I like the extra protection of the TC-40 in the spring. A generic version is called Powertrain-30 (40, 50).

In a non- hydraulic system I've tried 50 weight engine oil and the steering is very sluggish untill the oil heats up, then it overheats. I don't think it lubes that well as it gets really foamy. I get more metal on the magnetic plug with it. I've tried 15/40 engine oil and it acts a little better than straight 50 weight. These are more expensive than Donax-TD or TC-30

The manual says a synthetic called Conoco DN-600 is recomended for the LMC 1500 and can say that it works great in them at about $200. per oil change plus filters. Mobil SHC 627 works well too, $300 per change. These oils are best for The late model machines with coolers, filters and combined rear end and aux hydraulics. In a non hydraulic system I would like to try Mobil-One engine oil as it about the same as the SHC formula but multi vis. though still spendy.

I won't use Type -F automatic trans fluid as is sometimes recomended. The stuff turns black and smokes at 180 degrees F, and is thinner than water, maybe it works good in Antarctica.

Finding that balance between good steering and low wear, thats all.

Anyone else?

Pat Foster
Wallace Idaho
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  #24  
Old 05-16-2007, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Thanks Mttopper. I have heard of the shell aero but was hoping for a source of supply that was more readily available. I have only seen it advertised on airplane web sites. If I have to I will buy it there but hoped for something I could get at tractor supply or something. Thanks.
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  #25  
Old 05-17-2007, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Now here is another dumb question. How often do you change the fluid? Once a season is over? I figure on 600 hrs per season.
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  #26  
Old 05-18-2007, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Snowcatops, There are no dumb questions....just dumb mistakes. Looks like you are adding yet another thiokol to your collection !!! Congrats!
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  #27  
Old 05-18-2007, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Thanks. There addictive.
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  #28  
Old 06-25-2007, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

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Originally Posted by Mainer View Post
Here's the back-end of my 61 Trackmaster. Just bought it and have it in storage...haven't had a chance to touch it or dig into it at all. Runs well as-is but I'd still like to do a chassis-off restoration. The previous owners went through a few 1/2 ton Ford pick-up back-ends and then went up to 1 ton and it's been fine. They pulled a 2,800 lb drag with it.
How does that work? I assume there is an engine, and I see 2 coupled rear ends, but I am lost after that.
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  #29  
Old 07-01-2007, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

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Originally Posted by samwe View Post
How does that work? I assume there is an engine, and I see 2 coupled rear ends, but I am lost after that.
Driveline sequence is: Engine to transmission to power divider to twin drive shafts to drop boxes to tracks.

These were more maintenance and slightly more challenging but not that much more so than the updated single-shaft model. The Air Force used these successfully in the field and made the decision to distribute them to several locations around the globe...that's for this twin-shaft design after testing and use in North America.

So, the diffs we see on these units have complexities and costs and this soluiton does as well. I have both and they are just both very interesting! You have a piece of history which you may wish to update ... or leave original but if you're changing a bunch of other gear out then it may not make any difference. The power divider uses 24 clutch disks to achieve the slippage/catch necessary. It's the same type of system in the old crawler tractors.

Here's a diagram.

Good stuff!
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  #30  
Old 09-21-2007, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

need to chat with you about this rearend configuration. ive got a 1961 thiokol 4t10 with a similar dana 70 set-up. i need help.
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  #31  
Old 03-23-2008, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Hi Guys,
Just a quick note in reference to rear diff fluid. SNOWCAT PAT suggest in a phone call to him that I try Caterpillar TO-4 30 weight. Man am I impressed! changed the fluid once before to something that was used for trans and wet brake bands but the stuff was really thick and heated up quick. The new TO-4 steers a 100 times better and so far seems to run ALOT cooler! I cant believe how much easier it is to now steer. I use probably Half the pull force to turn. I cant find the container I used for the first diff change and I dont remember what it was but this TO-4 is GREAT stuff! Thanks SNOWCAT PAT!


CATERPILLAR "TO-4": $67.95 5-Gallon bucket
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  #32  
Old 03-23-2008, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Hey Sno-Ops, Glad it worked for you. I like action of the TO-4 much better than Tractor Hydraulic Fluid. I've read (for what its worth) that its also better for the gears as a straight weight and has a friction modifier developed by Caterpillar for wet brakes. I happen to use Shell Donax TC-30, it has the TO-4 rating. I wonder though if the Cat product is better. The Shell product is cheaper.

I should mention that Thiokol/ LMC snowcats equipped with the differential as the hydraulic reservoir should use the lighter THF. I'm not sure if the hydraulic pump in those systems would be happy with the TO-4/30W. The TO-4/10W might be OK with the pump but then might be too light for the gears.

-Pat
...trying to live up to the name Spryte Imp-rovement!
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  #33  
Old 03-23-2008, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

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Originally Posted by Snowcat Operations View Post
Now here is another dumb question. How often do you change the fluid? Once a season is over? I figure on 600 hrs per season.
The book I have says to change every 150 hours of operation and at the beginning of each operating season. I think I downloaded it from this site but I can't find it now.
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  #34  
Old 03-24-2008, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

I would think since the cost is cheap enough that a change at the begining of the year. Half way through and at the completion of the year would really keep the fluid nice and new in the rear diff all year.


Snowcat Pat. My next Cat will have an OC-12 with a blade. DMC1200. What do you suggest for that other than a 10 weight. Temps I run at are between -20 and 32 degrees. I will sometimes drop below those temps but not often.

ALSO does anyone know how many gallons an OC-4 takes?
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  #35  
Old 03-25-2008, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

I have a 2100 with an OC-12. My manual says to run gear oil in the main case and 30 weight in the drop boxes. So far, I've seen no mention of anything similar to this...just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. Mine runs cold and steers great...
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  #36  
Old 08-17-2008, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

HELLO SNOWCAT...I have a Thiokol Spryte...1977....model.1201047-104..The differential has broken up would you know which model differential differential I need[ ?. and where I might be able to find a rebuilt unit or parts....Regards Tom....quote=Snowcat Pat;76181]The drop boxes for the OC-4 are chain reductions. The drop boxes for the OC-12 are gear reductions available in both 2.44 or 1.83 ratio.
I just finished rebuilding my 14th OC-12 and I think I'm starting to understand it.
I've tried several different oils in the last 18 years and I now use only Tractor Hydraulic Fluid brand Shell Donax TD, or sometimes Donax TC-30. Lots of these cats have a hydraulic system that combines the rear end oil with the hydraulic oil so it has to work for both. Change the oil often, when warm, and in the spring before storage.
Steering? Don't drag the brakes!

Snowcat Pat
Wallace Idaho[/quote]
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  #37  
Old 08-17-2008, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

I have a Thoikol Spryte 1977...Model 1201047-104 The differential has broken up..Any idea what type of differential this would be ? and where I might be able to find parts...I need to get this thing running...Thomas
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  #38  
Old 08-17-2008, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtntopper View Post
With the OC4 rear end in the Imp, I have used and highly recommend the Shell Aero mineral oil that is used in airplanes. I used Shell Aero 50 and it works great in the Imp. You will have excellent braking/turning ability with very little wear on the brake bands. It came highly recommended to me from several people with a lot of brake steer snow cat experience.

Same oil that we have been using in our Imps here (C-4 transmissions) in the winter and seems to do a good job and steering is pretty good as well.

My Imp sets pretty much all summer unless I want to take it for a spin around the yard and then my wife gets really P.O.'d about the new grass "Turf lines" all over the place from turning.

I will change the oil in the fall and then every 100 hours or so of running (much cheaper than rebuilds). The Shell Aero 50 can be bought at any airport that sell aviation gas. In Fairbanks, they sell it at the Sam's Club. I would assume that is because we have so many Imp owners here... oh, and a few airplanes too...
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  #39  
Old 08-18-2008, 04:40 AM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas View Post
I have a Thoikol Spryte 1977...Model 1201047-104 The differential has broken up..Any idea what type of differential this would be ? and where I might be able to find parts...I need to get this thing running...Thomas
Show a picture of the diff and I'm sure someone can ID it. Comparing with the pictures at the beginning of this thread should tell you which diff you have. With the model/serial number info, I think Peterson Equipment in UT can give you all the nitty-gritty details on your cat. There are a few members here who may have the parts you need.
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  #40  
Old 08-19-2008, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Thiokol differentials

Thank you Bobcat..it is an OC-12...Thomas
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