Tractor rear end tear down

Cowboy · Dec 22, 2010

Anyone here ever been into a compact tractor rearend ?

I finally got a chance to tear into my iseki to find out what was causing it to lockup in reverse . I figured worse case scenerio I,ll part it out since I dont seem to be able to find any parts for the friggen thing .

I knew when I screwed it up & happened to be digging in my pond when it all of a sudden would not move backwards & made weird popping noises . So Long story short I couldn,t go forward because I was at the peeper end . I walked it backwards out untill I could turn it around & drive out . I also did the same thing to get it backed into my shop so I was expecting to find at least some broken gears or shafts if not worse .

The only thing I can find wrong is 7 out of 8 third member bolts are broke off where the nut goes on . I fished out the lock washers & 5 nuts but still missing two . There seems to be no damage to anything else but I will at least have to tear apart the whole right axle assembly to get the ring gear bolts out & replace them . 1 bolt is still tight which saved it from more damage .

Anyway I have no manual for it & cant find anything online that shows the breakdown pics . The only forum that has any Iseki information has allways proved to be worthless to me so I,m here asking for any input once again . It aint rocket science but I know that the brake is in there as well as the differential lock so if anyone has had any experience I would sure appreciate any input .

here are some pics of where I,m at on it as of this moment . Thanks in advance . :biggrin:

ki0ho · Dec 22, 2010

I dont know how much help it will be but I have my massy whitch is an iski newer Im sure but i have the service manual and if you want give me your mail address again and Ill copy it off and send it to you. also give me the mod number exct and I will talk to some one who just might be able to shead some light for you also

Jerry Ellsaesser @wildblue.net

Cowboy · Dec 22, 2010

ki0ho said:
I dont know how much help it will be but I have my massy whitch is an iski newer Im sure but i have the service manual and if you want give me your mail address again and Ill copy it off and send it to you. also give me the mod number exct and I will talk to some one who just might be able to shead some light for you also

Jerry Ellsaesser @wildblue.net

Will do Jerry , The front end deal you sent sure helped . As far as the model # this is whats on the ID Plate . TA250F & TL28F . But the markings on the fender are 255 , I think thats been my biggest problem finding any info or parts for it the Id #,s just dont make much sense . Much apreciated once again . :beer:

loboloco · Dec 22, 2010

Damn cowboy, that sure is tight in there. Sorry, but never worked on a compact like that. I do my best to only work on full sized.
Wish I could help.

Cowboy · Dec 23, 2010

loboloco said:
Damn cowboy, that sure is tight in there. Sorry, but never worked on a compact like that. I do my best to only work on full sized.
Wish I could help.

Yes it is tight Lobo , I too have much more experience in working on larger equipment . One would the think smaller the easier , but when ones fingers & eyes dont work so well even an easy task can be a hairpulling experience :w00t2:

Thanks for looking in though . I,ll post more pics as I tear down the right side , That should really get intereseting :biggrin:

ki0ho · Dec 23, 2010

Bob
first off the section on the rear end was mailed today,Lady said you should have it monday.Spoke to jim at Lauf equipment in Jeff city and he told me they deal with Hilltop tractors a lot when they need parts fo older and off brand tractors.Just google Hilltop tractors. There all over the country from the looks of it. Also check www.sheaftractor.net and www.vntractors.com
a local mec told me he deals with them when he is looking for older and foren brand parts. Hope this helps any thing else I can do to help let me know Jerry :biggrin:

Ps there is a place in PA that I got a lot of ford parts from called Arther tractors they might be able to steer you to someone who can help
Have a great christmas Jerry

muleman · Dec 23, 2010

Cowboy, you could try these guys as well.
http://www.satohparts.com/

muleman · Dec 23, 2010

Here is a forum I belong to that has an Iseki section.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/iseki/

Cowboy · Dec 24, 2010

ki0ho said:
Bob
first off the section on the rear end was mailed today,Lady said you should have it monday.Spoke to jim at Lauf equipment in Jeff city and he told me they deal with Hilltop tractors a lot when they need parts fo older and off brand tractors.Just google Hilltop tractors. There all over the country from the looks of it. Also check www.sheaftractor.net and www.vntractors.com
a local mec told me he deals with them when he is looking for older and foren brand parts. Hope this helps any thing else I can do to help let me know Jerry
Ps there is a place in PA that I got a lot of ford parts from called Arther tractors they might be able to steer you to someone who can help
Have a great christmas Jerry

Thanks again Jerry I,ll give them places a try , allthough I have never got a reply to the emails I sent Len Sheafer when I was looking for my front end gears which I still need if I can get this fixed . I just assumed He couldn,t help me so I never tried again .

I couldn,t stay away from the darn thing yesterday so I tore it a lot further apart but still have a long way to go . So any kind of reference at all will be helpfull if I ever am able to attempt to put it back together . Sure is a lot of work just to replace 8 bolts :yum:

.

muleman said:
Cowboy, you could try these guys as well.
http://www.satohparts.com/

Thanks Bill I,ll give them a try as well . :wink:

muleman said:
Here is a forum I belong to that has an Iseki section.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/iseki/

Yep thats the same forum I belong to & haven,t had much luck getting any help other then them telling me to call Len , I sent him pics & model #,s & never have heard back so I dont know WTF good a phone call would do :w00t2:

I did post over there again this morning though . Thanks again . :wink:

Oh Yeah , Anybody want to know how much oil dry it takes to soak up 10 friggen gallons of hydraulic fluid ? I,ll give you a clue , 100 pounds aint enough :yum:

I did learn a lesson though , never keep your plastic drain pans outside if you have a lot of racoons around or at least check them for teeth marks before using . :bonk:

Cowboy · Dec 24, 2010

I got quite a bit more tore down yesterday but still along way to go before I can even get the damn bolts out . This is where I,m at now & I,m only half done . Sure seems like a lot of work just to get to 8 friggen bolts .

I had a slight delay due to an oil spill though its a bit of a mess under the tractor :hammer:

.

DaveNay · Dec 24, 2010

Cowboy said:
Sure seems like a lot of work just to get to 8 friggen bolts .

Once you get the right side torn down, you will discover that the left side is held on by two bolts and a spring clip.

ki0ho · Dec 24, 2010

Bob
Jim at lauf said they have seen a few tractors come in with the problem you describe and it apears it is simply started when the bolts get loose and the forward and reverse type work they stress and finely brake. Put in new bolts-fine thread with nylocks nuts and you should be good to go for another 20 years!!! Torque them tight!!!

Cowboy · Dec 24, 2010

DaveNay said:
Once you get the right side torn down, you will discover that the left side is held on by two bolts and a spring clip.

The left side of what Dave ? Unless your just kidding of coarse . :biggrin:

Cowboy · Dec 24, 2010

ki0ho said:
Bob
Jim at lauf said they have seen a few tractors come in with the problem you describe and it apears it is simply started when the bolts get loose and the forward and reverse type work they stress and finely brake. Put in new bolts-fine thread with nylocks nuts and you should be good to go for another 20 years!!! Torque them tight!!!

Thats good to here Jerry , Thats the only thing that made sense to me unless I run into something else getting it into it further . But I ran fine going forward without even a noise . When I put it into reverse it engaged to PTO though , but thats cuz the to bolt heads were hitting the linkage bars & kicking it into gear , But it made no sense at all untill I got it apart & seen it . Thats why I figured something must really be screwed up before I tore into it :w00t2:

muleman · Dec 24, 2010

The helix angle of the ring and pinion draw it into position when running forward and push it apart when you reverse causing it to shove the bolts into the case or anything else in the way. Good luck with the teardown and repair.

ki0ho · Dec 24, 2010

Yes good luck Bob if I can help let me know Jerry

Cowboy · Dec 26, 2010

muleman said:
The helix angle of the ring and pinion draw it into position when running forward and push it apart when you reverse causing it to shove the bolts into the case or anything else in the way. Good luck with the teardown and repair.

Yep thats what I figured after looking at it closer & Thanks for the luck I,ll need it , gota tear the left side down today as the bolts just miss by a hair of coming out of the case . :hammer:

ki0ho said:
Yes good luck Bob if I can help let me know Jerry

Will do Jerry Thanks . Heres where I,m at after last night . I kew I,d problly have to tear the rest of it apart but it looked so close that I could replace the bolts without removing the 3rd member carrier . Problly best to bench it anyway though so I can get them torqued right .

I did find the last 2 missing nuts & they have the broken bolt in them too , They appear to all be broke the same & none looked like they were loose so I will be looking for any other reason they could have broke , but it could have just been stress to with as many hard hours as i,ve put on the tractor :biggrin:

muleman · Dec 26, 2010

I think the real culprit here is low tensile strength bolts that stretched and popped from the torque force when reversing hard. Of course the bolts though aggravating are a lot cheaper and easier to replace than gears. I would look for good inch grade 5 or 8 bolts to replace them with. Made in America if at all possible. Then quit using it as a dozer! :whistling:

There are a lot of sub standard bolts in the marketplace today from cheap importers. I have always found metric fasteners to be a little less rugged than their SAE counterparts. They do not seem to take repetitive teardown and assembly very well.

Cowboy · Dec 26, 2010

muleman said:
I think the real culprit here is low tensile strength bolts that stretched and popped from the torque force when reversing hard. Of course the bolts though aggravating are a lot cheaper and easier to replace than gears. I would look for good inch grade 5 or 8 bolts to replace them with. Made in America if at all possible. Then quit using it as a dozer! There are a lot of sub standard bolts in the marketplace today from cheap importers. I have always found metric fasteners to be a little less rugged than their SAE counterparts. They do not seem to take repetitive teardown and assembly very well.

Well it has been a perty good dozer for quite a few years :w00t2:

, are you trying to say I,m hard on my equipment ?

I might have forgotten to mention I had my finish mower on the back while digging in the pond & right before the problem happened I jambed it in to the side of the bank while backdragging the bottom & had the hand throttle locked at around 1800 rpm . :w00t2:

Damn near knocked me off of the tractor but I didn,t spill my beer :wink:

Ya think that might have had anything to do with it ? :yum:

I actually never remebered that untill last night trying to rethink WTF I did that might of caused it . Like the old saying goes you cant fix Stupid . :hammer:

. But Yep I agree on the bolt strength , I might even check into having some made they are a fairlly simple bolt really . Thanks again . :wink:

muleman · Dec 26, 2010

Well if that is the way you operate it then don't put more than grade 5 bolts in it! :yum:

You should be OK with new bolts and be glad they broke instead of gears. Might be better to use the foot throttle so when you back into something it lifts your foot for you. :whistling:

Cowboy · Dec 26, 2010

muleman said:
Well if that is the way you operate it then don't put more than grade 5 bolts in it! You should be OK with new bolts and be glad they broke instead of gears. Might be better to use the foot throttle so when you back into something it lifts your foot for you.

Yep Problly a good idear Bill :yum:

I darn sure am gonna be more carefull if I ever get the damn thing back together cuz it sure sucks workin on it . Its a done deal now though untill I find some bolts Or have some made . i gotter on the bench though .

Here a few pics of where I,m at now . anybody got any idea of where I can get some I,d appreciate it as I doubt I really want the ones from Iseki if I can find them . Everything else looks fine though . Thanks for lookin . Bob :clap:

muleman · Dec 26, 2010

They are probably a shoulder style bolt. Can you mic. the shank diameter and see if it is a regular metric size? Do the heads have a flat on them to keep from turning?

tommu56 · Dec 26, 2010

I cant see from the picture the head doesn't look hexed

we get a lot of stuff from fasten all

The second choice is metric and multistandard.

http://www.metricmcc.com/

tom

Cowboy · Dec 26, 2010

muleman said:
They are probably a shoulder style bolt. Can you mic. the shank diameter and see if it is a regular metric size? Do the heads have a flat on them to keep from turning?

That last pic the bolt is standing up in one of them measuring deals for Metric or Us , the outside threads are the same as the bolt shaft & measures a #8 metric , its a bit sloppy in the 5/16ths hole . It measures 50.0 mm to the head & 60.1 total length & thread seems to be 1.25 TPI . Thats with my readin glasses on so I could still be off a hair .

Its hard to tell in the pic but yes I tried to show the flat spot on the round flat head where it fits against the carrier to keep it from turning .

Closest measurement with a tape is 2 1/8 " to the bolt head & 2 7/16ths inch overall . I got a mic but I,ll be damned if I can find it . :doh:

Every bolt & nut on this tractor is metric with the exception of the koyker loader . If that helps . Thanks again :biggrin:

Cowboy · Dec 26, 2010

tommu56 said:
I cant see from the picture the head doesn't look hexed

we get a lot of stuff from fasten all

The second choice is metric and multistandard.

http://www.metricmcc.com/

tom

Woops just seen this . Yes its a round flat head with a small flat spot where it fits against the carrier #8 metric & no markings on it that I can see . Thanks for the link I,ll have a look . :biggrin:

muleman · Dec 26, 2010

That is a 55mm under shoulder length with a 40mm shank length. That will be the critical length as it had to have that much to align the ring gear and carrier. You could try Fastenal but most likely you will need to have a machine shop turn down some bigger ones or make them from bar stock.

Cowboy · Dec 26, 2010

muleman said:
That is a 55mm under shoulder length with a 40mm shank length. That will be the critical length as it had to have that much to align the ring gear and carrier. You could try Fastenal but most likely you will need to have a machine shop turn down some bigger ones or make them from bar stock.

Thats the kind of info I need Bill , I,m lucky to be able to read a regular tape measure & my wife got me this lil plastic gadget awhile back first time I even used it . :biggrin:

I doubt I,ll find the right exact bolt , so I have no problem paying a machine shop to make some , I,m just not sure how to tell them what I want or need . I,ll just have to have my wife take the 1 good bolt & see if they can duplicate it . Question is from what ? I really dont want to have to go through this again . All of My buddys that had machine shops are either retired or dead so I dont really have anyone I can trust anymore .

I did a google search & found to fastenal dealers within 10 miles of me though I just dont know if it,ll do any good having the wife take the bolt there .

And yes sometimes it sucks being a hermit :doh:

Thanks again . :biggrin:

BigAl · Dec 26, 2010

Cowboy said:
Thats the kind of info I need Bill , I,m lucky to be able to read a regular tape measure & my wife got me this lil plastic gadget awhile back first time I even used it .

I doubt I,ll find the right exact bolt , so I have no problem paying a machine shop to make some , I,m just not sure how to tell them what I want or need . I,ll just have to have my wife take the 1 good bolt & see if they can duplicate it . Question is from what ? I really dont want to have to go through this again . All of My buddys that had machine shops are either retired or dead so I dont really have anyone I can trust anymore .

I did a google search & found to fastenal dealers within 10 miles of me though I just dont know if it,ll do any good having the wife take the bolt there .

And yes sometimes it sucks being a hermit

Thanks again .

The first ones from the factory lasted a long time . Why not just order another set and be done with it . I doubt you will wear them out in your lifetime? Maybe reinsert with a little thread locker glue on them too .

Cowboy · Dec 26, 2010

BigAl said:
The first ones from the factory lasted a long time . Why not just order another set and be done with it . I doubt you will wear them out in your lifetime? Maybe reinsert with a little thread locker glue on them too .

Thats the only draw back in buying grey market tractors Al . Its hard enough to find filters for these iseki,s let alone hard parts . There probablly been more models of Iseki,s made then any other tractor I,ve ever heard of , some are popular others not so much .

This particular model I have only found one other like it in the last 5 years so its obviously not a very popular model in the us . I,ve been searching for gears for the frontend for a year & no one has or can get them , new or used . There great tractors & very seldom have problems but when they do your perty well screwed unless its a model Iseki made for Bolens , massey ferguson or other popular brands .

So thats the why , to the why not in long form :biggrin:

.

muleman · Dec 26, 2010

If you have a Massey dealer near you they might have the bolts or be able to get them.

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