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Interesting, but don't read the article

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
but read the responses. Politico In all that I read not one was for health care. It gives you a general feeling about how people feel about health care. Some even agreed with me in the fact that yes a change is needed in health care but it just seems to me they past it just so they can say they past it. No regard for what is right or moral, just pass the dam thing.
 
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muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
This whole charade will keep dragging on with the conference debates and then the court challenges. The dems have managed to piss off even more folks with their "deals" for votes. I doubt this will ever get resolved. The coming elections are going to be a signal to Washington that folks are getting tired of the bloated government machine.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Rasmussen has been tracking people's attitudes and about health care and posted this on Christmas Eve AFTER the Senate passed their version: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...s_abortion_proof_of_citizenship_public_option
Voters Frown on Health Plan Details - Abortion, Proof of Citizenship, Public Option
Senate Democrats are celebrating this morning for passing their version of health care reform, but voters still don’t like much of what they see.

At the start of the week, 41% of voters nationwide were in favor of the health care bill, but 55% were opposed. This is the fifth straight week with support for the legislation between 38% and 41%. Rasmussen Report is continuing to track support for the plan on a weekly basis and will have new numbers on Monday morning. Part of the opposition comes from a general skepticism about Congress, rather than specific policy issues.

But there are specific policy issues that also raise challenges as the Democrats try to pass a final version of this legislation in early 2010. Fifty-four percent (54%) say taxpayer-funded health insurance should be prohibited from covering abortions, up six points from September. The House version of the legislation includes such a prohibition, but the Senate version does not.

Fourteen percent (14%) of U.S. voters say health insurance paid for or subsidized with government funding should be required to cover abortions. Twenty-nine percent (29%) say the legislation should have no requirements one way or the other.

On another hot-button topic, 87% believe that before anyone receives government health care subsidies, they should be required to prove they are legally in the United States. President Obama and congressional Democrats insist the health care plan will not cover illegal immigrants, the legislation does not require proof of citizenship for those seeking taxpayer-funded health care help.

Only eight percent (8%) of voters oppose the requirement for proving that recipients of health care subsidies prove they are in the country legally. Public attitudes on this point have changed little since September.

A commentary by Michael Barone notes that it been more than 150 years since such significant but unpopular legislation was passed through Congress on a partisan basis. The political ramifications in 1854 were so significant that it led to the creation of a new political party, the Republican Party. Ultimately, the Kansas-Nebraska Act also played a key role in the run-up to the Civil War.

The so-called “public option” is not in the Senate bill that passed early this morning, but liberal Democrats in the House, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi, are hoping for at least some modified version of government-backed health insurance to compete with private insurers. However, it is not likely to be included due to the fierce opposition of some Senate Democrats. If even one Democrat in the Senate votes against the bill, it will not pass without Republican support. Forty percent (40%) of voters now favor the creation of a government-sponsored non-profit health insurance option that people could choose instead of a private health insurance plan. But 48% oppose such an option.

However, 63% of voters say it is more important to guarantee that no one is forced to change their health insurance coverage than it is to give consumers the choice of a government-sponsored non-profit health insurance option. Thirty percent (30%) think the “public option” is more important. These numbers are unchanged from early October.

Voters have consistently sent mixed signals about the creation of a “public option,” but opposition grows dramatically if it threatens to force them to change health insurance coverage. Most Democrats, however, favor a “public option” and believe the creation of such an option is more important than guaranteeing that no one is forced to change their existing health insurance coverage. Most Republicans and unaffiliateds disagree.

Sixty percent (60%) believe passage of the health care legislation will increase the deficit. That’s likely to be one reason why 57% say it would be better to pass no health care reform bill this year than to pass the plan currently being considered by Congress.

Seventy-nine percent (79%) of Republicans and 57% of unaffiliated voters say health insurance paid for or subsidized with government funding should be prohibited from covering abortions. Democrats are more closely divided on the question, with 48% saying the health care bill should have no requirements concerning abortions.

One thing is not in doubt, though: Voters are closely following the health care debate. Ninety-two percent (92%) say they are following news stories about the legislation being considered by Congress at least somewhat closely. That includes 61% who are following very closely. A mere three percent (3%) say they are not following the news about this legislation at all.

The health care bill is one factor creating a challenging mid-term election cycle for Democrats. Several Democrats in the House have announced that they are retiring rather than running again next year, and one Democratic congressman has changed parties. The bill also seems to be taking an early toll on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s chances for reelection. The Nevada Democrat now trails three potential GOP challengers in a state where opposition to the plan has been stronger than in other parts of the country.​
 

mak2

Active member
I absolutely hate the idea of my money ever paying for abortions. I cannot find what type abortions are covered. Anything from an atopic (?) to full term abortions can be called abortion. Do you know exactly what they are calling abortions?

Illegals will have to be treated, no way to deny treatment in the ER. We really cant just let them die, stablize them and ship them home.

Illegals are another good example of both parties worrying more about self intrest then anything. They are illegal, send them home and tighten up the border and dont let them come back. No president on either side has adequately addressed the problem. Democrats see potential votes someday, and Republicans see a hedge against inflation (low wages) and ties with big buisness.

I am sorry I did not adequately follow directions I read the article. This article actually says an equally unpopular act led up to the civil war. No spin there.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Regarding abortions, from what I can tell, any abortion is covered that is permitted by state law, so what is covered would likely vary slightly from state to state as some states allow later term abortions than others.

My disclaimer of "from what I can tell" is because like most of the idiots who voted for this, I have not actually seen the document. I have been going over several different websites views of what is covered, none seem to be overly specific, some have apparently seen the wording, it appears to be pretty much as I wrote it, but we may just have to wait and see.

BTW, that 'equally unpopular act' also led to the formation of the Republican Party which led up to the freeing of the slaves.
 

mak2

Active member
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091223/D9CP9T4O0.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - The way abortions are covered under health care reform is a major obstacle to finalizing the legislation, even though the House and Senate both agree that no federal money should be used.

The stumbling block is whether insurance plans that get federal money are completely barred from covering abortions, or whether they can cover it as long as they require customers to write separate checks for the procedure using their own money.



This article makes it sound like it wont be federal plans that fund abortions, but private ones that get federal money.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
This article makes it sound like it wont be federal plans that fund abortions, but private ones that get federal money.

There are many takes on this and that is where all the confusion comes in. However, as it appears that the health care take over will require people to buy private insurance (of some sort) and as it does not seem to establish a government run policy, and as it provides either partial or full subsidies to people to pay for those private policies, it is clear that federal money would be used to fund abortion if the subsidies were used to buy private policies that include abortion.

So for people who oppose using any tax dollars to fund abortions then it really doesn't matter how the abortion coverage is provided, what matters is that their tax dollars not be used to provide them. Subsidies (full or partial) will go to a large % of the population so that equals tax dollars that could be used to pay for abortions.

Slice it or dice it anyway you want, but the bottom line is that tax dollars, under the Senate plan, can be used to pay for abortions.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Murph, that is pretty much it.

With things like foodstamps we can say they are not to be used for things like alcohol and tobacco. But with healthcare some people want to slide the abortion coverage in under the radar by using private policies to do so. I don't understand why we can't simply not cover abortions in any policy that is purchased in any way with taxpayer money. That is what the STUPAK Amendment did in the House.
 
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