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Help me build a ............

Big Dog

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............Garage

I prepping for a spring build of a garage 48x40. I used a free program for a metal building BUT metal is NOT mandatory. I'm struggling with which type to build ........pole, metal, and stick. I am not a carpenter. I plan on using radiant heat and will re-enforce the foundation for a vehicle rack in the center bay, that's all I know so far. Debating on a 4:12 or 6:12 pitch and will decide when I know which type I do build. I will be running water/sewerage and electric if the county permit will allow.

If I do a metal building, I'm assuming I can go clear span. If stick or pole I will not be able to, correct me if I'm wrong. Also depending on the pitch and stick, I could utilize overhead storage. Most know I have a log home and the wife is worried about the "look" of a metal building being out of place. Log wood/vinyl siding is definitely in the mix.

Let me know what you think and use your experience to help a brother out!
 

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Durwood RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
You can go clear span anyway. The trusses are what matters, not the siding you use. A 4/12 pitch should be plenty with either metal or shingle roof. Anything taller just adds more expense is all.
 

bczoom

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So many questions/thoughts, so little time (as I'm at work).

Give us some more info on your layout for the interior once it's built.

Is 40' going to be deep enough? Are 3 vehicles going to be pulled in from the front? Any back door?

Water and electric shouldn't be an issue. Sewer can be and may get awfully expensive.
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
I plan on using radiant heat and will re-enforce the foundation for a vehicle rack in the center bay, that's all I know so far.

Let me know what you think and use your experience to help a brother out!


I don't know how much money you have but I will offer a suggestion if this garage is one you will be working a lot in. In my garage I have Wirsbo Heat and it is by far much nicer than radiant. Also if your going to be storing items up high like your car rack with radiant you do have to be careful with fiberglass and plastic items as they will melt if too close.

Oh and by the way the floor heat would not be much more than the radiant.

murph
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
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As far as roof pitch, which you mention in your initial post, I would try to match the pitch on the roof of your house. My opinion is that it looks better to have all the buildings on the same property with similar roof pitches, so if you have a steep pitch on your home, go with the 6:12 but if your home has a more traditional shallow roof pitch then go with a 4:12 pitch.
 

rlk

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Thanks Murph. I'm familiar with hot water pipes in concrete, just never heard it referred to as Wirsbo Heat.

Bob
 

Big Dog

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So many questions/thoughts, so little time (as I'm at work).

Give us some more info on your layout for the interior once it's built.

Is 40' going to be deep enough? Are 3 vehicles going to be pulled in from the front? Any back door?

Water and electric shouldn't be an issue. Sewer can be and may get awfully expensive.

The left and center bays would be used primarily for vehicles. I figure I can get 2 front to back in each bay. The right hand bay would be for toys (quads, scooter and lawn tractor). Shop benches back right corner and wash area back left corner. I'm hoping I can tie to the current septic or do it after I'm complete .... :). That's it, no partitions, all open.

I don't know how much money you have but I will offer a suggestion if this garage is one you will be working a lot in. In my garage I have Wirsbo Heat and it is by far much nicer than radiant. Also if your going to be storing items up high like your car rack with radiant you do have to be careful with fiberglass and plastic items as they will melt if too close.

Oh and by the way the floor heat would not be much more than the radiant.

murph

Floor heat is what I meant by radiant or is my definition FU'ed. Wirsbo Heat some fancy floor heat?
 

Big Dog

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As far as roof pitch, which you mention in your initial post, I would try to match the pitch on the roof of your house. My opinion is that it looks better to have all the buildings on the same property with similar roof pitches, so if you have a steep pitch on your home, go with the 6:12 but if your home has a more traditional shallow roof pitch then go with a 4:12 pitch.

I'd love to but matching the pitch on the house would not be economical, the house pitch is 12:12 or in or around.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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If the house is 12:12 then I'd go with a 6:12 instead of a 4:12.

One other thing you may want to do is try to incorporate some of the house features and all the house colors into the garage facia.
 

Spiffy1

Huh?
SUPER Site Supporter
I'm not huge on pole construction [as I know it around here anyway]; even with the best wood treatments and stacked lumber (so treatment is complete rather than only an inch deep; though I still think it cost the manufacturers less too), you still have poles in the ground. Since you're concreting it out anyway, I'd rather see the pad just a bit wider, and be building either wood or steel frame on top of it rather than beside it or through it; as mentioned before trusses are available for either beyond even your dimensions.

A wood construction should hold heat better than steel (skins that is not frame), but the steel guys have enough technology in their toolkits these days, they may be able to insulate it as good or better and still cheaper. I'd bet they can find a steel roof, if not side panels as well, to compliment your house.

Somehow I read your misnomer regarding floor heat, as you intended; no idea of the brands, but the couple people I've known with it, sure have it feeling nice even at 50degrees or less in there.

Sewer! :coolshade However, I don't see your "office" in the floor plans!
 

Big Dog

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One other thing you may want to do is try to incorporate some of the house features and all the house colors into the garage facia.

The diagram about DOES incorporate those aspects.
 

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bczoom

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Since you're concreting it out anyway, I'd rather see the pad just a bit wider, and be building either wood or steel frame on top of it rather than beside it or through it
Building on slab where he lives doesn't work very well. Too much freezing heaves the concrete and twists the building. A footer would be required.

Mine is a pole building in 4' deep holes filled with concrete. The concrete floor was pored after the build and is separated from the building via expansion joints. If the ground under the concrete freezes and lifts, it's not lifting/twisting the whole building.
 

Spiffy1

Huh?
SUPER Site Supporter
Building on slab where he lives doesn't work very well. Too much freezing heaves the concrete and twists the building. A footer would be required.

Mine is a pole building in 4' deep holes filled with concrete. The concrete floor was pored after the build and is separated from the building via expansion joints. If the ground under the concrete freezes and lifts, it's not lifting/twisting the whole building.

Ahhh, that makes sense, bczoom.

Actually, most people around here consider it overkill for a garage, but I've seen a couple people go with footings below the frost line and have such nice results that I just assume pouring footings in my dream garage [should it ever materialize :unsure: :doh: ].

The poles in my machine shed and several others around here are getting quite rotten despite concrete in the holes [but dirt floor]; but that is over 30years old with the technology to match. A neighbor builds steel buildings and swears the layered poles last much better.
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Thanks Murph. I'm familiar with hot water pipes in concrete, just never heard it referred to as Wirsbo Heat.

Bob


The Wirsbo Corporation was actually the company that started the In Floor Heat. Kind of like Keenex. So when we talk about In Floor a lot of times we call it Wirsbo.

Floor heat is what I meant by radiant or is my definition FU'ed. Wirsbo Heat some fancy floor heat?

Well your probably right. Different area different language. Around here when people talk of Radiant it usually means the Infra-Red Radiant tube heaters. Your on the right page with the infloor. :thumb:


murph
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Hi Greg; Just how set are you on having the doors on the gable end? If you were to turn the ridge to run the long way, the 48', then you could use shorter trusses, a little less expensive, and you could raise the pitch. That would lower your snow load as well. Maybe put your 9' doors in the 40' dimension, and the 10' door on the long side?
You could also run beams the length of the building on 16' centers, relating to your original plan, frame across them with 2X12 lumber or floor trusses, floor them with 3/4" T&G OSB. Then build walls along the length of the beams the height you need for whatever pitch you want, Build lower rafters out of 2X6, then use 32' trusses on the walls.
I can even see a sort of hybrid construction here. Build it as a pole building, but run beams like I mentioned, and use those as mentioned before. This would lessen the loading on the topgirts since you would only be spanning 16', instead of 48', and youd still be able to have a second floor.
I like your house, it looks like it fits the landscape very well, and the siding you have can be used on your "barn" no matter the stick or pole building construction.
As far as insulating a pole building, foam sprayed on the inside walls after wiring etc., is done would be a very good insulation. But any insulation should be covered by something. Drywall? 1/2" OSB, plywood?
Not much is getting done on my barn right now because of snow and lousy weather, but I'm going stick built.
Hey, just thought of another thing for you to think about. If you go stick construction, you'll need at least a ratwall, if not a footer. Either way, have the floor and all poured at once, monolithic pour, and go a couple course high with concrete block. That will keep your walls up off the floor so to minimize contact with water on the floor from snowmelt, washing the vehicles, or whatever.
Man, I love spending your money, and what was the original question?:thumb::coolshade:beer::beer::beer:
 

Big Dog

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Hi Greg; Just how set are you on having the doors on the gable end?

Well I thought I wanted it pretty bad but I'll do some laying out tomorrow and see if I can make it work. The location of the building doesn't favor large doors anywhere but to the front. I could with some extra dirt work make the 10 ft door (which BTW is just for the tractor anyway) work.

Thanks for to info and I'll definitely look into your suggestions.

Funny you mention the couple of course block raise. One of my original ideas was to do that with a 8' metal building just for the same reasons. Good thinking!
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Well now. Isn't that why ya have a tractor, for dirt work?:brows:

Glad to help anyway I can. I like building. Just ask anytime.:tiphat::beer::beer:
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
OK , Heres my input for what it is worth .
1. I would go with a 5" concrete slab with a perimeter footing extending below your frost line . Add a extra inch of concrete in the floor lift area .
2.If you live in snow country keep those drive in doors on the gable end so your not dumping snow in front of your doors .6/12 pitch roof would work better than 4/12 in snow country .
3.If your planning on finishing off the interior I see no reason to go with Pole type building .Conventional framing would be more cost efficent ,in the long run.
4.Match the roof material with your home . You can also run a 48" exterior veneer of log siding and then switch over to metal siding if your wife is concerned about matching the house exterior.
5.Metal roofing /siding has taken a jump in Price . I just paid $2.30 a running foot for 36" wide . I was quoted as high as $3.05 .
6. All trim should match the house in color and size .
7. You will pay by the lineal foot for trusses ,so price probably won't change much weather you go 40' or 48' . The lineal footage will still be the same .
8. Can you run two glue lam beams (6x14)the full lenght of the barn to cut down the clear span distance ? This would allow you to hand frame the roof and cut your cost by a 1/3.This would also allow you to do away with cieling joist or collar ties ,which would keep your outside walls lower in hieght but allow more headroom hieght in your center bay .You could also you cathedral type trusses to gain a higher center hieght while keeping you exterior walls lower .
9. Yes , you can stick frame and still have a clear span on the interior . If you have much snow in your area ,find out the Snow Load to get a correct bid price on trusses .

10.I did most of my own work on my barn/shop . It is 60x60. I have about $30,000 invested in a completely closed in shell at this point . There is 5000 square feet in both floors total . I figure it will cost me $50,000 by the time I am completely finished including the 1400 square foot apartment upstairs. So at $10 a square foot makes me pretty happy :clap:
 

k-dog

Member
I started my garage and mudroom addition to the house earlier this year and I'm just about done. I only need to have the floor poured which I am waiting for warmer weather plus I want the stone to settle more. My garage is 28' X 40' (the 28' on the gables). With the 40' length, I can pull my full size Chevy K1500 (with extended cab and 6.5 ft bed) and pull in my Ford Explorer in behind it and have room to walk in between the two vehicles as well as the back of the Explorer and the garage door so 40 feet is a good length.
I went with stick built complete with footers and block walls out of the ground about 2 feet. Once the floors are poured, my ceilings will be about 11.5 feet. I also have 9 foot tall insulated doors (garage door openers aren't bad in price but the extension kits were a little on high side, had to get one for 10 foot as they only make 8 foot or 10 foot). Including the openers, I have about $2,000 in the garage doors (funny part is that having them brown cost a fortune). Also if going with shingles, go architecural (sp.).
I got my trusses delivered at a really good price and they were exactly as I order them with no issues. I got them from Blue Ridge Truss Company and talked to Sherry. She said they could basically make anything I wanted in a truss. If you are planning on storing a lot of stuff in the attic of the garage, I would go with a 2X6 on the bottom chord of your truss instead of a 2X4.
As far as my lumber I went through 84 Lumber because I ordered it all at once basically to get the best deal possible and then paid as I picked it up or as they delivered it and didn't want to deal with the idiots at Home Depot or Lowes plus 84 Lumber (I think they originated in PA) was giving me free delivery. Well that was a mistake as 84 Lumber sent me out crap lumber and I had to take half of it back to exchange it and they didn't have a clue on some things.
Some of my biggest unexpected costs so far were the garage doors and openers, everything to do with wiring (supply wire of 6-3 w/ground was almost $300 for 100 feet), my vinyl siding to match house was twice the price per square as regular tan siding and the footer (they had to blast) and block work.
 

Big Dog

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8. Can you run two glue lam beams (6x14)the full lenght of the barn to cut down the clear span distance ? This would allow you to hand frame the roof and cut your cost by a 1/3.This would also allow you to do away with cieling joist or collar ties ,which would keep your outside walls lower in hieght but allow more headroom hieght in your center bay .You could also you cathedral type trusses to gain a higher center hieght while keeping you exterior walls lower .

All understood except #8 and thank you!! 6x14? 6"x14'? Frankly it's all dutch to me ............. :blush:

If I go with the 6:12 pitch I'm thinking it would be wise to put some kind of room or storage up there leaving me with the high (12") wall height. That said I could run support the full depth of the garage on both sides of the large bay.
 

k-dog

Member
8. Can you run two glue lam beams (6x14)the full lenght of the barn to cut down the clear span distance ? This would allow you to hand frame the roof and cut your cost by a 1/3.This would also allow you to do away with cieling joist or collar ties ,which would keep your outside walls lower in hieght but allow more headroom hieght in your center bay .You could also you cathedral type trusses to gain a higher center hieght while keeping you exterior walls lower .
9. Yes , you can stick frame and still have a clear span on the interior . If you have much snow in your area ,find out the Snow Load to get a correct bid price on trusses .

I would check the regs. because the biggest span my county would let me run by framing the roof myself was 24' unless I used those dreaded lolly columns. Any longer span and I had to use engineered trusses. I'm sure you could get engineered trusses in the same scenario as Al described.
 

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
if you're set on pole building, pour the in-ground part of the pole as a reinforced concrete column that sticks up a foot above grade, then use strong tie 6x6 anchors to attach the vertical timbers which also protects them from ground moisture.
I'd go with a 4/14 roofline - and make it a standing seam roof instead of standard corrugated. Snow will slide right off, so there's no need for steeper and it's easier to lay in the decking and final roof.
If you want to make your own rafters versus trusses, consider I-joists. A 12" on 16" centers should span 20' no problem. Otherwise, Al's idea of using 6" x 14" beams is a good one.
another thought for the roof is to talk to a SIP manufacturer - they build roof panels with plenty of clear span to meet your snow loads and the insulation and sheathing are built in from the get-go. (or go whole hog, order a kit from them that includes 6" walls with hardipanel siding factory pre-installed, and a 10" roof thickness -- then all you'll need to do is rock the insides and caulk your exterior seams before painting. material cost is about 20% higher, but the shell (not including widows & doors) could be assembled in about 3 days by 4 guys and a 40' reach fork. (my house is built this way - we have a 7" x 25" ridge beam that's socketed into the gables and has a support at the middle of the house) If you want an idea of what SIPs are, and the advantages of using them, check out www.Enercept.com.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
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Greg,

If you're going with a steel roof, give Flexospan a call. They're in Sandy Lake PA which should be relatively close to you.

http://www.flexospan.com/

That's where I get my steel roofing. They have a "clearance" section from overruns and such. You can get the material at a reduced price.
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
I would check the regs. because the biggest span my county would let me run by framing the roof myself was 24' unless I used those dreaded lolly columns. Any longer span and I had to use engineered trusses. I'm sure you could get engineered trusses in the same scenario as Al described.

Sorry about that . Yes ,it would require two support post inside the building to span the 48 foot .

BD .... I'm going to post some more pictures of my barn on my thread ( Fruits of my labor) .
Maybe it will give you some ideas of how i set up my upstairs and eliminated trusses .
 
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