Natural Gas Generator

Bob mentioned this in another thread .....

B_Skurka said:

That is one of the reasons I shifted over to a Natural Gas generator. I was very apprehensive about keeping so much gasoline on hand.

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I'm very interested in a natural gas generator. I know nothing about them, but I do need one.
Where is yours in stalled at Bob? In an enclosed room ...or in a garage, or can they be kept outside?
What brand do you have? If power goes out can you run everything in your house as normal as if power was on?
Did you install it yourself?

Anyone else, please chime in with what you know of Natural Gas generators.

TIA!

Doc, I have a propane generator that can run my entire home (I have one propane furnace; one heat pump; an electric water heater; a propane range; and a well pump). The installer suggested I turn off the heat strips on the heat pump if the generator comes on during the winter. Other than this, the generator will run the entire house.

It is a Generac Model 5243 16kw generator that I purchased from zillerelectric.com. Since I had no experience installing a transfer switch, I elected to have an electrician do the work. The hardest part of the whole deal was getting the electrican and the propane tech to agree to come on the same day.

The transfer switch will start the generator if power from the local power company drops. Once the generator starts, and warms up for about one minute, the transfer switch will kick in and supply power to the entire house.

The generator was installed last fall, and has only come on one time: a couple of weeks ago, we had a short power outage (less than 10 minutes) while I was not home. Some people who were working on my garage were here, and they said they were impressed that within a couple of minutes of the power outage, everything was back to normal as far as power was concerned.

Once power is restored from the power company, the transfer switch will switch back to the power company and turn the generator off.

Each week, the generator will start itself and run for about 5 minutes. It does some diagnostics on itself during that time.

It is a neat system, and is somewhat like insurance - you hope you never have to use it.

Bob

Mine is a Tri-Fuel generator that is connected to the natural gas line that feeds our house. Mine is NOT as fancy as the set up that 'rlk' has. Mine is connected to a manual cutover switch and mine does not have the automatic start/exerciser feature that runs it for a few minutes each week. Mine is about 10 years old and those features were just starting to be commonly offered in homeowner generator units. I wish I had that, and I wish I had the automatic transfer switch. But in all honesty, mine works and was about 1/2 the price of the systems (at the time) that had the auto switch features.

The main reason I bought mine was because it was what I could get, and get quickly and get installed. We had been having a rash of power failures and it was winter . . . basically I bought the best I could get without being so large that it would be overkill. Unless you are an electrician I would not recommend installing a cut over switch yourself. Maybe it is easier than I think, but I will fool around with most household electrical but this was over my head.

Mine is located inside my garage, which was a mistake. I should have had it installed outside the garage but at the time generators were being stolen. So mine is in my garage and I simply run with the garage doors open, which is no big deal. Every year I swear I am going to exhaust it through the wall. . . I never bother to do it!!!

As for size, mine will run about 80% of my house, I have all the important circuits connected to the generator but I have a few that are not.

I had an Onan 28 KW generator that I purchased from a defunct Bradley's store in 1998, with the thought that I would install it in my home. I paid $1500 for it, but had to have it removed from the second floor of the building it was located in. I got it cheap because no one knew how to get it out. I had an inside track, since I was the shopping center on site manager, and knew that the building was going to be torn down partially for a renovation.
I was going to have it converted to propane use, but the propane dealer talked me out of it, since the 6 cylinder commercial Ford engine was going to drink fuel like a dog drinks water. He told me that my per hour cost of running it was going to be out of sight.
I put it on eBay and got only one bid for the opening amount.... $2500. It was an automatic transfer switch model, with a hospital quiet muffler system. It had only 700 hours on it, and all those hours were starting and running once a week for 25 years.
What I have learned is that if you want a quiet generator then you go with a 1800 RPM unit. If you want longevity, then go with natural gas if you have it available. If not, then go with diesel. I have a 20 HP Tecumseh Engined 3600 RPM Winco generator that runs on Propane, and it is very loud. I wouldn't recommend anyone using Propane generators, and definitely not a 3600 RPM unit. I hope to replace it one day...... Junk...

Try these guys: http://www.hardysolar.com/shop/home.php?cat=61

Above is there off the grid section. Check out the whole site though. Junkman is correct when he says go with a 1800 rpm generator. Also remember that some diesel generators are just plain LOUD. So ask alot of questions and remember you can muffle most generators to be quiet but still efficient. I prefer Diesel since 1. I can produce my own diesel fuel for about .70 a gallon and its Bio fuel so its good for the environment. 2. I can purchase "Off Road" diesel fuel which has NO state or fed road taxes, again cheap. 3. At 1800 rpm they will last forever. ect ect ect. Hope this helps!

Thanks for the replies. I'll have to catch up with the work before I can check these out seriously. So, it might be a month or two before I have more questions.
I'm looking for Natural gas because I have a well on my property with a free gas hookup. Otherwise I'm sure I would be looking for a diesel generator. I like the idea of a 1800 rpm one.

Most natural gas generators are in the 3600 RPM configuration, unless you get a larger commercial unit that is a tri fuel unit, and designed to run at 1800 RPM. You will find that the 1800 RPM units are a lot more expensive, because you will require a larger horsepower unit. Generally speaking, if you need 18 HP to run a 3600 RPM 8KW generator, you will need 36 HP to run the same 8KW generator at 1800 RPM.

Well natural gas it is! Nice, a free hook up!

Someplace ... and I can't remember where ,I have read about a lot of warranty problems with Generac Generators . The motor is fine ,but it is the electrical turbine that seems to be the problem .Wish I had paid better attention .

Junkman said:

...Generally speaking, if you need 18 HP to run a 3600 RPM 8KW generator, you will need 36 HP to run the same 8KW generator at 1800 RPM.

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Junk, as a retired EE I find that statement confusing. That would mean that the 1800 RPM units are only half as efficient as the 3600 RPM units, requiring twice the input power for the same output. (I am assuming that instead of "the same 8 KW generator" you meant an equivalent 8 KW generator. Running a standard generator at half speed would produce 30 cycle AC instead of 60.) Do you have any references so I can figure it out?

you are correct.... I did mean an equivalent 8 KW generator..... the only advantage the 1800 RPM generators have over the 3600 RPM generators is that they are quieter, and the engines last more than double the life span. Can't give fuel consumption figures, because it depends on the fuel you are using and the engine configuration...... When I was an EE, I was confused also....

If I had free gass here I'd get a Natural Gas Generator then I wouldn't have any gas or electric bills.

skinderflirt said:

If I had free gass here I'd get a Natural Gas Generator then I wouldn't have any gas or electric bills.

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Stick around for awhile .... Most of these guys are full of it !