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Price padding part 2, or loyalty isn't worth a damn.

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
I'm currently putting my shopping list together for the roof on our 1280 sqft addition.
We've owned our place for 25 years.

In the beginning there was mostly True value hardware.
They were the go to for everything.
There were a few lumber yards scattered about, but none of them seemed to last very long.
There was also Ace hardware, but they just couldn't compete with TV.

I've known the guys at the service, or pro desk if you will, the whole time.
They are a family business.
Even though the Home depot has been in town now awhile, I still try to give my biz to TV as much as possible, but there are times when TV can't even come close to the home dopes, but sometimes I'm there, and I know I can get something for a little less at the Home dopers, but I'll go ahead and buy it there because...loyalty.

One of the big advantages to the TV is if you pay for your stuff at the service desk instead of the cash register, and pay with cash, they don't bother to charge tax.

I got the better part of my package lined out, and called them for a quote.
Now I know it's best to shop around, but it was my hope with a package this size, I might do pretty well with these guys.

We're talking TJI's, some LVL or strand lumber, some dimensional wood, some joist hangers and the likes.

They sent me their quote, and it came to almost $9,500.
I about shit my pants!

In my mind, and kind of pricing things out back in February, $6K was around the number that was in my mind.

I then began my shopping around adventure to see what was what.
A joist hanger that sells for around 8 bucks all day long anywhere else, turned out to almost 3 times that with TV.

Everywhere else I looked, I found they had almost doubled the price of the strand lumber.
The TJI's they had padded almost $40 a beam.
The CDX, almost $8 a board over HD.

On and on.

I feel thoroughly betrayed.

So looking at all the other options including home depot, I got my cost way the hell down.
Down so much, that I started ordering material for the floors, and exterior finishing.
I've just broken the $7k mark.

Maybe they can't beat the prices at some other places, and I can understand putting your thumb on the scale here and there, but to just blatantly park your damn car on the scale is just down right rude, offensive, usurious, and marks the end of our relationship.

I'm now going to limit my business with them down to the very minimum, and only go there for those little things I can't find anywhere else.

I'm sure they won't feel it as my loyalty turns unfortunately elsewhere, but if enough people catch on to their change of tack, they're done for.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
I find two issues with the TV and ACE vrs the Home dopes/Lowes. Yes, the big box stores are cheaper, but the quality of the materials is often questionable. And then there is the concept of selection.


The smaller hardware places seem to stock more of the odd items for which there is little demand and therefore little product turnover. Bean counters hate that. But to get your business, the Big box dopes will have such items in order to compete with the little mom and pop stores for your business.

And now for the But,,,;
After putting the little guys out of business, however, they don't keep those items on the shelf. I was at Lowes the other day, looking for shaft collars. Always had them before, but not anymore. Always had a big selection of brass latches and hooks useful for boating, camping and out door activities which require lines and ropes. Nope. Just a few cadmium coated mild steel junk. And all of it blister packed in sets so I could not buy just one.

To your point, loyalty is a big deal. But it suffers from the economics of modern merchandizing. My favorite case in point has to do with the ship's store at the marina.

I cannot number the times I have been chastised, by other sailors, for overpaying at the marina for something I could buy cheaper online or in town. Bottom paint, running lines (rope to you land lubbers) and fittings were always there when needed, a few minutes of my time and a few bucks more of my wallet. I was a loyal customer. But overtime, a lonely one. It simply did not pay the ship's store to have those items on hand, for the one or two customers like me.

It was, for them, a choice between losing money, charging more, or discontinuing a helpful service to marina patrons. Patrons, I might add, who did not return the favor with their loyalty. I am afraid the same will happen to my local hardware guys who DID have the shaft collars and fittings I wanted. But based on the dust accumulated on their shelving, not much inventory movement.


Sad to see.

Time will tell but I'm betting I will soon have to buy many such items ,,,,dare I say it, "ON LINE." :hammer:

BTW, remember that it was the Ben Franklin Stores and Sears Roebuck that changed merchandising and created our consumer economy. THEY ARE ALL GONE!
 

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
I find two issues with the TV and ACE vrs the Home dopes/Lowes. Yes, the big box stores are cheaper, but the quality of the materials is often questionable. And then there is the concept of selection.


The smaller hardware places seem to stock more of the odd items for which there is little demand and therefore little product turnover.

This is one of the reasons I try to support the TV.
You can go in and buy 1 screw if that's all you need.
You're not doing that at the box store.

Also these guys at TV are pretty damn good.
Many of them are old school.
You can go in with two things that have absolutely no business being connected together, and when you leave, they will be connected one way or another.
You're not getting that at home depot.

These TJI's are only made by a few people that I'm aware of.
It's either Weyerhaeuser or Boise Cascade.
I can't believe that either of them charge a $1000 price difference between TV and the box stores.

Now that I've found them at a decent price, It's just a matter of how to get them in here.
 

Bamby

New member
These TJI's are only made by a few people that I'm aware of. It's either Weyerhaeuser or Boise Cascade.I can't believe that either of them charge a $1000 price difference between TV and the box stores.
It's the freight and handling charges for the products you've chosen. Any TV I've been around doesn't have the space, place or the means and manpower to handle such products without excessive damage. A individual store won't likely have a truck serviceable to deliver such long one piece items either.

But you need not worry I'm sure they won't survive to much longer and all they'll then be is "Dust in the Wind". Or should I say another MT commercial building on the boulevard.
 

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
It's the freight and handling charges for the products you've chosen. Any TV I've been around doesn't have the space, place or the means and manpower to handle such products without excessive damage. A individual store won't likely have a truck serviceable to deliver such long one piece items either.

But you need not worry I'm sure they won't survive to much longer and all they'll then be is "Dust in the Wind". Or should I say another MT commercial building on the boulevard.
This place has a pretty good sized yard, but yes, there's no way they could keep TJI's on hand/in stock.

Another major setback yesterday.

Occasionally, I have used Ace hardware for certain things.
Last June they delivered 4 pallets of ready mix concrete.
For anyone curious, a pallet of bags equals 1 yard. (appx 3300 lbs)

I need four more yards to complete the filling of my walls, so I called them yesterday.
They said they didn't have 4 pallets on hand and would have to order them.
No problem.
Then it occured to me that maybe they'd like a shot at filling out my lumber order, which also included a mess of rebar, CDX etc.

After about a half hour, we got the order together and priced.
He was happy, I was tickled pink.

Then he asked who I was again, I told him who I was, he then remembered me and said, sorry, we're not delivering to your area anymore.

WTF????

You just delivered to me a few months back???

Yeah well, we recently delivered to someone in your area, and broke our truck.
But did you break it at my place?
He replied no, but we decided we're just not coming out there anymore.
Fark!

After a number of calls, I did find someone, and got the pkg ordered.
Fortunately, their prices weren't too bad.
Unfortunately they're 150 miles away, and the delivery charge is going to be $600.
Oh well, I guess it is what it is, and I'm happy I'll have most of what I want, except for some of the things that I'll end up back at home dopes for.
I'm going to have to haul my own cement, which means (4) 100 mi round trips.
Yeah, it's what I get for living as remote as I do, but the benefits, still outweigh any of these hassles.


Just for fun, here's another mind numbing experience I had yesterday.

Homedopes. :rolleyes:

When doing an elastomeric roof coating, a polyester fabric is incorporated into it to provide strength and extra prevention of water penetration.

I looked online at my local store, and they didn't have it.
I did a geewgle and the product showed up online as available at home dopes almost 100 miles away.
I tried the product number at my local store...and nothing!
I tried ordering it to be delivered to the store.
It can't be done.
I tried ordering it to be delivered to me.
Not available for delivery.
I called my local store, he can't order it from there.

What exactly is this fuckery?

I finally found it elsewhere online and got it ordered.

Yesterday was a challenge to say the least.

I may have to start a separate thread for this project.
 

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
So today we made what's called web stiffeners.
The manufacturer calls for them when hangers are used to take up the space on either side before fastening into the joist hanger.
I have 22 joists, so 4 stiffeners each for a total of 88.

These are what's called for at 2 5/8ths x 15".
It took the wife and I about an hour to knock them out on a table saw, if we had to do it again, I'm sure we could do it even faster.
It took one sheet of 3/4" plywood @$24.58.

I don't know man, you tell me.

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