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I belive we should jump off the "fiscal cliff"

Melensdad

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Title says it all.

For the good of the nation, I believe we need to run headlong to the abyss and jump. This nation spends too much. Government has increased spending to the tune of roughly 30%. Nothing but facing the abyss will stop this government.

From the standpoint of business, we all have to live within our means, we can't continue to borrow forever. We can't live with the excessive regulations, which are now averaging almost 70 per day from the government agencies.

It has to stop. Might as well be now.
 

joec

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Title says it all.

For the good of the nation, I believe we need to run headlong to the abyss and jump. This nation spends too much. Government has increased spending to the tune of roughly 30%. Nothing but facing the abyss will stop this government.

From the standpoint of business, we all have to live within our means, we can't continue to borrow forever. We can't live with the excessive regulations, which are now averaging almost 70 per day from the government agencies.

It has to stop. Might as well be now.

You very well might get your wish on this one. I'm hearing that many from both sides of the aisle are ready for it to happen and Obama said he would veto any short term fix to kick it down the road.
 

Melensdad

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You very well might get your wish on this one. I'm hearing that many from both sides of the aisle are ready for it to happen and Obama said he would veto any short term fix to kick it down the road.

Seems to me it makes everyone happy.

Democrats get a $55B cut to defense.
GOP gets a $55B cut to domestic spending.
Democrats get higher taxes via the imposition of the Alternative Minimum Tax.
Democrats get drastic reimbursements cuts to Medicare providers, which shifts more burden to the states, which is critical to ObamaCare.
GOP gets an end to extended unemployment benefits.

TAXPAYERS get their first actual cut in government spending in 100 years or more?!?
 

FrancSevin

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Title says it all.

For the good of the nation, I believe we need to run headlong to the abyss and jump. This nation spends too much. Government has increased spending to the tune of roughly 30%. Nothing but facing the abyss will stop this government.

From the standpoint of business, we all have to live within our means, we can't continue to borrow forever. We can't live with the excessive regulations, which are now averaging almost 70 per day from the government agencies.

It has to stop. Might as well be now.

I completely agree.

It is inevitable anyways. The tsunami is coming and all the talk and good intentions of congress and the White House will not stop it.

Rip the tape off the wound and suffer the pain. We need to stop letting bloviators (we put in power to do things right) from once again kicking the can down the road.

1980 our eonomy was in much worse shape than 2008 or even now. Since we do not have a positive minded leadership, I do not seeus acheiving the results of the Reagan/Bush/Clinton erea propserity.

More like the Great depression we will endure 8 years of tax and spend policies of incredible ineffectiveness. Since the nation is tired of War, I submit that another world conflict, although likely, isn't the only answer.

Jump off the cliff. Americans are bright and tenuios. If the government just throws up it's hands and gets outof the way, we will figure out how to fly on the way down.

And land on our feet.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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I agree Bob - I think the cliff is necessary.

However, I suspect the GOP will cave. They are worried about the 2014 elections and the fact that the Democrats are schemeing for ways to make the GOP out to be the villains. The next two years are going to be sink or swim for the GOP.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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Related article . . .

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/35f526fa-2c2b-11e2-a91d-00144feabdc0.html
Don’t fear fiscal cliff, says Democrat

By Robin Harding in Washington
A leading Democratic senator has said her party should be willing to go off the fiscal cliff in order to secure tax rises on the wealthy, raising the stakes in year-end budget negotiations.
“If the Republicans will not agree with that, we will reach a point at the end of this year where all the tax cuts expire and we’ll start over next year,” said Patty Murray, who was co-chair of last year’s deficit supercommittee, on ABC’s This Week. “And whatever we do will be a tax cut for whatever package we put together. That may be the way to get past this.”


The Washington senator is one of the most senior figures from either party to suggest that temporarily going off the fiscal cliff could be an acceptable way to break the impasse over fiscal policy. Her hard line could strengthen the negotiating position of Democrats but frighten markets.
The fiscal cliff refers to tax rises and spending cuts planned for the end of year. If this happens, tax cuts passed by former president George W. Bush would expire and there would be across-the-board cuts to defence and other spending.
That could push the US into recession, although some analysts think it would not be too damaging if some of the cuts and tax rises were quickly reversed. Republicans want to keep all of the Bush tax cuts while Democrats want to keep them only for those with incomes below $250,000.
Going off the cliff would have the political advantage of letting Congress vote for tax cuts, after they go up automatically at the end of the year, rather than voting for tax rises now.
Saxby Chambliss, the Republican senator for Georgia, said that higher revenues should be on the table but as part of a tax reform rather than an immediate increase in rates.
“We need to consider the fact that the folks who [the president is] talking about raising taxes on are the job creators, the small business community,” said Mr Chambliss. “So there’s a right way to do this and there’s a wrong way to do it.”
But there were signs that Republicans are backing away from a head-on confrontation over the Bush tax cuts on higher incomes. Bill Kristol, the influential editor of the conservative Weekly Standard, said the party should consider taking the fiscal deal proposed by President Barack Obama.
“I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer to freeze taxes for everyone below $250,000, make it $500,000, make it $1m,” said Mr Kristol on Fox News Sunday. “Really? The Republican party is going to fall on its sword to defend a bunch of millionaires, half of whom voted Democratic and half of whom live in Hollywood?”
Cover from conservatives such as Mr Kristol could make it easier for Republicans in Congress to do a deal. “Let’s have a serious debate,” said Mr Kristol. “Don’t scream and yell if one person says ‘You know what? It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires.’ It really won’t, I don’t think.”
http://www.ft.com/servicestools/help/copyright
 

joec

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Only downside is unemployment jumps back up to 9%, people stop buying and we sink right back just as we are beginning to come out of it. I would like to see them settle on the taxes now then after the first of they year take up Social Security, Medicare and Military Spending cuts. Once that is done a real effort should be made to do away with some departments in the government that have overlapping duties often causing most of the problems as well as start an honest talk about redesigning our tax code from the ground up. We also need to get the infrastructure rebuilding long term as well as other longer range plans for the future. If they don't then we are doomed to go the way of Europe who has already tried austerity with poor results to date. Just my personal opinion on all of this stuff.
 

Melensdad

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Only downside is unemployment jumps back up to 9%, people stop buying and we sink right back just as we are beginning to come out of it. I would like to see them settle on the taxes now then after the first of they year take up Social Security, Medicare and Military Spending cuts. Once that is done a real effort should be made to do away with some departments in the government that have overlapping duties often causing most of the problems as well as start an honest talk about redesigning our tax code from the ground up. We also need to get the infrastructure rebuilding long term as well as other longer range plans for the future. If they don't then we are doomed to go the way of Europe who has already tried austerity with poor results to date. Just my personal opinion on all of this stuff.
Joe, I don't see 9% unemployment as a downside IF we stop spending. Yes, its a problem, but its small compared to the problems we are creating with debt and it will essentially allow us to deal with the problems now instead of passing them down to our kids.

But I also disagree that we are actually coming out of anything. The numbers don't seem to support any sort of recovery.
 

joec

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Joe, I don't see 9% unemployment as a downside IF we stop spending. Yes, its a problem, but its small compared to the problems we are creating with debt and it will essentially allow us to deal with the problems now instead of passing them down to our kids.

But I also disagree that we are actually coming out of anything. To the numbers don't seem to support any sort of recovery.

Ah, our national debt is a longer term problem much of which will go away when more people are back to work, spending money and bringing in more tax revenues into local, state and federal governments. Consumers buying goods and services get business going again also. Our debt can be handled once we get out of the fiscal problem that are now as that we have a 10 year window to fix really. Oh and one other note again the debt ceiling is for money already owed not on new money needed for expansion which has been accumulated over the years most of which is held by US citizens in the form of what they owe. Causing us to pay higher interest rates on paying that money back just makes it worse and raised that debt also.
 

FrancSevin

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I see 9% as an incredibly optimistic number. Perhaps when we go off the cliff as it were, we can see the real numbers emerge.

We are actually well over 9% now but the books are cooked. And next yeqr, whether we go off the cliff or not, if they use the same formulas, we will still see it rise as Obamacare creates more part time folks and more layoffs.

The current headlines of companies doing mass layoffs are in direct response to the anticipated cost of doing business next year. If the costs of doing business rise, the margains shrink. If they shrink past the costs of doing business one has two choices, cut jobs or shut down.

Businesses cannot simply borrow or print money to stay afloat. After the Petro Dollar fails, our govenment cannot do it either. It's not if, but when

Are ya'll ready for that?
 

joec

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I see 9% as an incredibly optimistic number. Perhaps when we go off the cliff as it were, we can see the real numbers emerge.

We are actually well over 9% now but the books are cooked. And next yeqr, whether we go off the cliff or not, if they use the same formulas, we will still see it rise as Obamacare creates more part time folks and more layoffs.

The current headlines of companies doing mass layoffs are in direct response to the anticipated cost of doing business next year. If the costs of doing business rise, the margains shrink. If they shrink past the costs of doing business one has two choices, cut jobs or shut down.

Businesses cannot simply borrow or print money to stay afloat. After the Petro Dollar fails, our govenment cannot do it either. It's not if, but when

Are ya'll ready for that?

Actually the current system used for unemployment is the same used since the early 80's. That was the last time it was changed.
 

Melensdad

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Joe, I realize our DEBT is a long term problem but we have not even begun to deal with the DEFICIT yet. The Fiscal Cliff will help turn the corner on the deficit, and that affects the debt.
 

Doc

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I agree. It would probably be the best outcome we could hope for as the cuts would have to happen.

But if I were betting money on whether or not we go over the cliff, I'd bet not. Both sides will cave to some extent to ensure that does not happen.
 

joec

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I agree. It would probably be the best outcome we could hope for as the cuts would have to happen.

But if I were betting money on whether or not we go over the cliff, I'd bet not. Both sides will cave to some extent to ensure that does not happen.

My only problem is the term cave. It is called compromise which is what makes our system work in the first place and has lead to the dysfunction since 2010.
 

FrancSevin

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Actually the current system used for unemployment is the same used since the early 80's. That was the last time it was changed.

Your point?
The system maybe the same(actually it isn't) but it can always be jiggered.
The books are still cooked.

Same thing with the cost of living adjustments.

Here's a question for youtto ponder and answer if you have a mind to.

If the system we use only goes back to the 80's why do we compare rates now to those of the fifties, or the 30's great depression?

Statistics are wonderful sources of info to prove a point.. One can torture them until they say what you want to hear. "There are lies, damn lies,,,and then there are Statistics."

Who said that?
 

FrancSevin

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I agree. It would probably be the best outcome we could hope for as the cuts would have to happen.

But if I were betting money on whether or not we go over the cliff, I'd bet not. Both sides will cave to some extent to ensure that does not happen.

The cliff fall is not an if, but a when.

If the ship is gonna hit the shoreline one can wish the best and hold on with hope. Or they can aim away from the rocks.

But politicians cannot be honest about it so best ya'll just hope.
 
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Melensdad

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My only problem is the term cave. It is called compromise which is what makes our system work in the first place and has lead to the dysfunction since 2010.

Dysfunction since 2010 when the GOP took over the house? Why was it not dysfunctional in 2009 when the Democrats failed to pass a budget while they controlled all branches?

"Cave" or "Compromise" basically means that one side takes an unreasonable position while the other simply wants status quo. The folks who want to keep things the same are then considered obstructionists.

For example, if the GOP wants to hold the line on spending, no cuts, just freeze it where it is, they are then considered obstructionists for not compromising and agreeing to increases. If the GOP wants to keep the current gun laws but the opposing side wants a "reasonable" law like a semi-auto ban, the GOP is demonized for wanting laws that are "unreasonable."
 

muleman

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Better have some seeds laid away for a big garden next year no matter what they do. Food and the lack of it will stir real unrest and the financial aspect will pale by comparison. Expect rampant inflation as the house of cards collapses.
 

joec

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Dysfunction since 2010 when the GOP took over the house? Why was it not dysfunctional in 2009 when the Democrats failed to pass a budget while they controlled all branches?

"Cave" or "Compromise" basically means that one side takes an unreasonable position while the other simply wants status quo. The folks who want to keep things the same are then considered obstructionists.

For example, if the GOP wants to hold the line on spending, no cuts, just freeze it where it is, they are then considered obstructionists for not compromising and agreeing to increases. If the GOP wants to keep the current gun laws but the opposing side wants a "reasonable" law like a semi-auto ban, the GOP is demonized for wanting laws that are "unreasonable."

The record is clear on both sides and the budget died in the senate not the house which is democrat majority but hardly controlled by them due to filibuster and rules in committee.

Oh and the fact is for some time now with each election the house and senate have become more and more dysfunctional hitting the worse after 2010.
 

FrancSevin

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The record is clear on both sides and the budget died in the senate not the house which is democrat majority but hardly controlled by them due to filibuster and rules in committee.

Oh and the fact is for some time now with each election the house and senate have become more and more dysfunctional hitting the worse after 2010.

If the Senate majority leader doesn't want something voted on the floor the filibuster capability is mute. Harry doesn't allow the budget to come to the florr. No way that can be tied to GOP actions or filitbusters.

That lands squarely on Harry Reid.
 

joec

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If the Senate majority leader doesn't want something voted on the floor the filibuster capability is mute. Harry doesn't allow the budget to come to the florr. No way that can be tied to GOP actions or filitbusters.

That lands squarely on Harry Reid.

True but by the same token as single member of any committee regardless of the vote of a committee can also stop if from coming to the floor. Budgets sent by the house wouldn't pass regardless and those that Obama sent them was dumped in favor of the Ryan budgets after the 2010 elections.
 

FrancSevin

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True but by the same token as single member of any committee regardless of the vote of a committee can also stop if from coming to the floor. Budgets sent by the house wouldn't pass regardless and those that Obama sent them was dumped in favor of the Ryan budgets after the 2010 elections.
You are perhaps being too selective in what you report Joec.

Both the house and the senate voted the President's budgets down.

The Senate by 100% including Harry Reid.

Had nothing to do with Ryan's plans.

I believe the House has sent at least four budgets over to the Senate for passage. None have seen the light of day there.

That is Harry Reid alone.
 

joec

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You are perhaps being too selective in what you report Joec.

Both the house and the senate voted the President's budgets down.

The Senate by 100% including Harry Reid.

Had nothing to do with Ryan's plans.

I believe the House has sent at least four budgets over to the Senate for passage. None have seen the light of day there.

That is Harry Reid alone.

Really as the budget starts in the House and they send what they do to it to the Senate at which point they took what Obama sent added their stuff, then sent it to the Senate. The senate doesn't get it first or unaltered unless the house sends it that way which I sure don't know of a time that happened.
 

FrancSevin

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Really as the budget starts in the House and they send what they do to it to the Senate at which point they took what Obama sent added their stuff, then sent it to the Senate. The senate doesn't get it first or unaltered unless the house sends it that way which I sure don't know of a time that happened.

I never said it did. I said in matters not what the House sends over, Harry Reid doesnot allowit to go to the senate floor. Why do you evade that point? It is the point I was making.

Once again you have spun us away from the subject in a continuois futile attempt to prove your incorrect statement. The power of filibuster has no teeth if theydonot put legislation on the floor. Reid block anything he does not want to discuss there.

Address it or move on.

Please.
 
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Melensdad

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Really as the budget starts in the House and they send what they do to it to the Senate at which point they took what Obama sent added their stuff, then sent it to the Senate. The senate doesn't get it first or unaltered unless the house sends it that way which I sure don't know of a time that happened.

The Democrats controlled BOTH the House and Senate the first 2 years of Obama's term and never bothered to pass a budget :hammer:

The next 2 years the GOP took over the House and Harry Reid PREVENTED the Senate from bringing it up for debate on the Senate floor :hammer: :hammer:
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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I doubt any of you remember what Canada went through in the 1990's, it wasn't too far from where the US is today:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-canadian-economic-austerity-model/18928

The Canadian Economic Austerity Model

By Andrew Jackson
Global Research, April 30, 2010
Url of this article:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-canadian-economic-austerity-model/18928
Paul Martin was Canada’s Minister of Finance from 1993 to 2003, then served a short term as Prime Minister (December 2003 to February 2006). He spoke on Canada’s 1990s debt reduction strategy to a February, 2010 Public Services Summit organized by the Guardian in the UK, and Canadian newspapers report that he is being tapped by the Europeans for advice on fiscal matters.
Martin himself has said that he’s been engaged in “informal” discussions with several European ministers and senior officials seeking advice on how to confront that continent’s debt crisis.
“’There’s a huge, huge interest,’ said Hamish McRae, a prominent columnist with the Independent, who recently advised readers that the route out of Europe’s debt crisis was by following Canada’s example. ‘Boy oh boy. Canada, along with four or five other countries, is attracting tremendous attention here.’”[1]
This is unfortunate since the Canadian example should prompt concern rather than blind imitation. Canada stands out among the OECD (Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development) countries for reducing deficits and debts through deep and permanent cuts to social programs and public services, at great cost to working families.
Government Debt Levels
In most OECD countries (with the major exception of Japan) government debt levels stabilized or fell as a share of GDP from highs in the mid to late 1990s until the start of the Great Recession in 2008. The basic drivers of debt reduction are well known. Debt will shrink if the economy grows faster than interest on the accumulated debt, and/or if deficits (revenues less expenditures) shrink due to spending cuts or tax increases.
From a labour and progressive perspective, the desirable approach to debt reduction is to maintain strong economic growth at low real interest rates and, if necessary, to raise taxes in a fair way to pay for the needed maintenance and expansion of programs. For most OECD countries, debts stabilized from the mid to late 1990s without major overall spending cuts as economies recovered from the downturn of the early 1990s, and as interest rates fell from very high levels (though not by nearly as much as they should have done in the Euro area).
For the OECD area as a whole, gross government debt as a share of GDP increased very slightly from a peak of 72% in 1998 to 73.1% in 2007, driven mainly by much higher debt in Japan. For the Euro area, debt shrank very significantly from 80% to 70.9% of GDP over the same period, and the U.S. debt also fell by 10 percentage points of GDP from its peak in 1993 through 2007.
At one level, Paul Martin’s reputation as a deficit and debt slayer is well deserved. As Canada’s Minister of Finance, he (together with like-minded provincial governments) presided over a huge reduction in Canada’s gross debt, from a well-above average of 101.7% of GDP at its peak in 1996 to a well-below average of just 65% in 2007. This was one of the most sweeping fiscal consolidations in the OECD, and certainly the largest of the G7 countries. A mixed bag of small countries also saw major debt reductions over roughly the same period – Australia, Finland, Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Sweden.
Government Spending Cuts
What makes the Canadian experience really stand out is very heavy reliance on spending cuts to eliminate the deficit and then run budget surpluses. In 1996, when Canadian debt peaked, spending was 46.6% of GDP, down a bit from a peak of over 50% of GDP in the recession of the early 1990s. By 2007, spending was just 39.1% of GDP, or more than 7 percentage points down from the peak debt year. By contrast, spending in the OECD area as a whole fell by only 0.7 percentage points of GDP between 1998 and 2007, and fell by 2.6 percentage points in the Euro area. Canada relied more on spending cuts than most of the smaller countries mentioned above.
Canada also stands out in that it did not rely at all on tax increases to lower the deficit and debt. Indeed, once surpluses emerged after 2002, corporate and personal income taxes were cut. Revenues as a share of GDP fell from 43.8% of GDP in the peak debt year to 40.7% in 2007. By contrast, revenues remained unchanged for the OECD as a whole, fell well under one percentage point of GDP in the Euro area, and rose a bit in the U.S. as the Clinton Administration raised taxes quite significantly as part of its debt reduction strategy.
Putting the burden of debt reduction on social spending cuts rather than on taxation meant that the burden of Canadian deficit reduction fell on the lower end of the income distribution, and this was a significant factor behind the pronounced increase in Canadian income inequality over the 1990s. Between 1993 and 2001, the after tax and transfer income share of the bottom 80% of families fell as the share of the top 20% rose from 36.9% to 39.2%.
Part of the decline in total Canadian government spending over the mid to late 1990s was cyclical, driven by a gradual fall in the national unemployment rate from a very high level. But by far the greater part came from a major retrenchment of the welfare state. As Minister of Finance, Paul Martin cut federal transfers to persons by 1.9 percentage points of GDP. With elderly benefits virtually untouched, most of the burden fell upon federally administered Unemployment Insurance.
Access to benefits was restricted, and the maximum benefit was frozen in nominal terms for a decade. Today, Canada has one of the least generous unemployment schemes in the OECD. During the current downturn, only one half of unemployed workers have qualified for benefits, and the maximum benefit is just 60% of average earnings. The average unemployed worker qualifies for a maximum benefit period of less than 9 months.
Martin also cut deeply into federal transfers to the provinces, which fell by 1.9 percentage points of GDP, 1992 to 2000. Most of the burden fell on social programs under provincial jurisdiction, notably public health insurance (which covers physician and hospital care) and welfare or social assistance which provides basic income support. The old formula under which the federal government paid one half of welfare costs was scrapped, and welfare rates were slashed in real terms in almost every province. Because of cuts to unemployment insurance and welfare, poverty rates remained at near recession levels through most of the 1990s and the incomes of the bottom half of households rose very modestly, despite falling unemployment.
Death of Social Programs
Martin’s cuts stopped the Liberal government from implementing their promise to introduce a national child care and early learning program, leaving working families pretty much on their own in seeking care arrangements. Worse, his fiscal revolution and abdication of federal leadership in social policy made Canada a much more market-dependent society, moving it much closer to the U.S. model. Between 1993 and 2002, the difference between the level of non defence program spending in Canada and the U.S. fell from a huge 15.2 percentage points of GDP to just 5.7 percentage points.
Martin and others argue that Canada was in such a fiscal mess in the mid 1990s that there was no alternative to deep cuts. However, as argued at the time by the labour movement and leading Canadian macro-economists such as Lars Osberg and Pierre Fortin (both past Presidents of the Canadian Economics Association), rising debt was not the result of over-spending but of a very deep recession, 1989 to 1991, exacerbated by the exceptionally high real interest rates inflicted by Bank of Canada governor John Crow in his search for the holy grail of zero inflation.
The cyclically adjusted budget balance in the mid 1990s was the same as the OECD average (4.6% of GDP in 1995), and below that in the Euro area. Canada could, like other countries, have made much more modest fiscal adjustments to gradually return to balanced budgets as the economy improved. Taxes in the mid 1990s were a bit lower than the European average and could have been raised at least in line with U.S. taxes under Clinton. Canada had no real trouble financing government borrowing which was and is overwhelmingly denominated in Canadian dollars.
A key feature of Canada’s deficit wars was the deliberate cultivation of fear. As documented by Canadian journalist Linda McQuaig in her book Shooting the Hippo, the media and officials fanned totally groundless fears of a debt default and even resorted to talking down Canada’s debt standing in influential international circles such as the Wall Street Journal editorial board to create a sense of crisis.
The macro-economic consequences of Canada’s huge fiscal retrenchment were limited by a shift to easier monetary policy, and a significant depreciation of the Canadian against the U.S. dollar. Canada grew somewhat faster than the U.S. and most of Europe from the early 1990s to 2000 despite fiscal restraint. But unemployment was very slow to decline, falling from 11.2% in 1992 to a still very high 8.7% in 2000. Average real hourly and weekly wages stood still over this entire period, under-scoring how far the economy fell short of its potential. For working Canadians, the 1990s were experienced as a lost decade.
As Paul Martin argues, Canada’s experience holds lessons for others. The key lessons are that deep fiscal restraint is hugely damaging to the well-being of working families, and that better alternatives exist.
Andrew Jackson is a Research Professor in the Institute of Political Economy at Carleton University, a Research Associate with the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, and a Fellow with the School of Policy Studies at Queen’s University. He has written numerous articles for popular and academic publications, and is the author of Work and Labour in Canada: Critical Issues, published by Canadian Scholars Press (2005).
This article appeared on the Global Labour Column website.

Notes
1. “Europeans tap Paul Martin for advice,” Ottawa Citizen, February 26, 2010.


Copyright © 2012 Global Research

Fortunately, for me I didn't really enter the workforce until the tail of this period and was able to reap many of the benefits. However, I do remember feeling that there weren't a ton of options for me other than staying in University in the early 90's.
 

FrancSevin

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The Democrats controlled BOTH the House and Senate the first 2 years of Obama's term and never bothered to pass a budget :hammer:

The next 2 years the GOP took over the House and Harry Reid PREVENTED the Senate from bringing it up for debate on the Senate floor :hammer: :hammer:

Thank You. Now perhaps we can go back to the discussion about the inevitable cliff.
 

FrancSevin

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I doubt any of you remember what Canada went through in the 1990's, it wasn't too far from where the US is today:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-canadian-economic-austerity-model/18928



Fortunately, for me I didn't really enter the workforce until the tail of this period and was able to reap many of the benefits. However, I do remember feeling that there weren't a ton of options for me other than staying in University in the early 90's.

What this article omits is that it is very dificult to be fired or laid off from a job in Canada. Te Process is very discouraged bythe government so getting a pink slip there, although not imposssible, is pretty difficult.

I might also ad that the Canadians have benefited from these auterity programs as a nation. Right now OUR currency is depreciating relative to theirs. Their economy is stong, more peopleown homes there(they had no realestate bubble burts) and Businesses, manufacturing, mining etc, Banking are stable.

Aside from the Healthcare program, their government is a smaller portion of the GDP. As it should be here.

Sadly however, when the USA goes over the side, we will likely take them with us.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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What this article omits is that it is very dificult to be fired or laid off from a job in Canada. Te Process is very discouraged bythe government so getting a pink slip there, although not imposssible, is pretty difficult.
Probably no different than a state like California or New Jersey.

I might also ad that the Canadians have benefited from these auterity programs as a nation. Right now OUR currency is depreciating relative to theirs. Their economy is stong, more peopleown homes there(they had no realestate bubble burts) and Businesses, manufacturing, mining etc, Banking are stable.

Aside from the Healthcare program, their government is a smaller portion of the GDP. As it should be here.

The purpose was to emphasize that going over the cliff worked for Canada. Even though it wasn't a great experience, they are stronger for it.

Sadly however, when the USA goes over the side, we will likely take them with us.

Agreed.
 
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