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Recommendations for a snow cat

T

Tmadse

New member
New to the forum and looking for answers . I own property and a cabin at a high elevation and want to be able to start going to the cabin on a regular basis during the winter . The problem is the last 4 miles is mostly up hill , I don’t know the exact grade or rise but it would average about 20 degrees above flat. This road is through the trees with a lot of turns . The snow gets to be about 15 feet deep over the winter with the top sometimes being 6-8 feet of soft powder .

I own a 1995 arctic cat 580 ext ( old heavy sled ). And this machine has zero chance of getting up this road , I have attempted it several times and always get stuck within the first 100 yards . However the newer deep powder machines make it up this road without much effort but only with a single rider and no extra gear .

A sled isn’t going to work for me and I would really like to use a snow cat but I don’t know which one to buy . What cat works best uphill in deep powder ? Would a tucker be best ? Or maybe a wide tracked two track ? I can’t afford a new one but I can shop around and would love to spend less than 10k but could spend upwards of 12k if I had too. There is a Thiokol Spryte with 48” tracks I have been looking at but I just don’t know if it can do what I want it to . Whatever I get will have a winch mounted on it . I don’t need or want a blade on it . Cab size isn’t too important either , I just need the best machine that had the best chance of getting me up there without getting stuck too often ( or ever ) .

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and suggestions . Please feel free to give your personal opinions and any facts you may have .
 
M

m1west

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I was in a similar situation. aim 4 miles off grid rising 1500' in the 4 miles lots of turns, switch backs and narrow steep road. I bought an old Thiokol 603 looks like an xtra cab cabover with a truck bed. Weighs 5400# with 32" tracks. Deep snow this year. 15' drifts. I didn't know what to expect. Except for a few maintenance issues I am working with it has worked flawlessly not even a hint of spinning a track or side sliding on drifts nothing. So with a sprite that depending on year the earlier ones are liter in the 3500# range with 36" tracks would be un stoppable. The only drawback to the skid steer is on a road like mine it is a workout. I will most likely move up to a nicer machine as money allows but right now I'm happy with the machine I have. Hope it helps Martin
 
B

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Tmadse said:
New to the forum and looking for answers . I own property and a cabin at a high elevation and want to be able to start going to the cabin on a regular basis during the winter . The problem is the last 4 miles is mostly up hill , I don’t know the exact grade or rise but it would average about 20 degrees above flat. This road is through the trees with a lot of turns . The snow gets to be about 15 feet deep over the winter with the top sometimes being 6-8 feet of soft powder .

I own a 1995 arctic cat 580 ext ( old heavy sled ). And this machine has zero chance of getting up this road , I have attempted it several times and always get stuck within the first 100 yards . However the newer deep powder machines make it up this road without much effort but only with a single rider and no extra gear .

A sled isn’t going to work for me and I would really like to use a snow cat but I don’t know which one to buy . What cat works best uphill in deep powder ? Would a tucker be best ? Or maybe a wide tracked two track ? I can’t afford a new one but I can shop around and would love to spend less than 10k but could spend upwards of 12k if I had too. There is a Thiokol Spryte with 48” tracks I have been looking at but I just don’t know if it can do what I want it to . Whatever I get will have a winch mounted on it . I don’t need or want a blade on it . Cab size isn’t too important either , I just need the best machine that had the best chance of getting me up there without getting stuck too often ( or ever ) .

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and suggestions . Please feel free to give your personal opinions and any facts you may have .
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum!

Twenty degrees above flat is seriously steep. Mathematically, 20º equals a grade percentage of 36.5%, and traveling a distance of four miles at that slope you gain over 7,700' in elevation. When you said "average" that means some sections are even steeper. I can't recall attempting a climb that steep and that long, and my off-the-cuff opinion is very few snowcats (if any) could make that climb in 6-8 feet of fresh powder.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel qualified to make a recommendation. Good Luck!
 
T

Tmadse

New member
Blackfoot Tucker said:
Welcome to the forum!

Twenty degrees above flat is seriously steep. Mathematically, 20º equals a grade percentage of 36.5%, and traveling a distance of four miles at that slope you gain over 7,700' in elevation. When you said "average" that means some sections are even steeper. I can't recall attempting a climb that steep and that long, and my off-the-cuff opinion is very few snowcats (if any) could make that climb in 6-8 feet of fresh powder.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel qualified to make a recommendation. Good Luck!
Click to expand...




Well my 20degrees was a guess and obviously way off mark. So i went to google earth for some real numbers and here they are...


I am traveling up and down hill but overall mostly uphill, there are two major incline that i know are the hardest part one is ...


500 foot rise in elevation over 1.5 miles (this is not a steady rise and has some flat and even one short downhill, my guess would be 70% of this is uphill and the rest is flat with one short downhill)


the second is...


195 foot rise in elevation over .25 miles. (this is a steady rise and in my opinion the hardest)


That is accurate using google earth for distance and elevation.
 
T

Tmadse

New member
So google earth has some cool tools, here is an exact plot of my trip showing elevation and miles. if i can figure out how to post pictures... I would also like to add that only 1.5 miles of this trip is a worry for me, everything before that is a groomed trail.


2e64z6b.jpg
 
Pontoon Princess

Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
welcome to the wonderful world of snow cats, and the best of luck with your search and hope you find what you are looking for, again welcome to the snow cat world...
 
M

m1west

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Tmadse said:
I am looking at a 1968 Thiokol Spryte with 48" wide tracks.
Click to expand...

I misquoted my track width on my 603 it is 34" if you go with 48" tracks it will be hard to haul unless you can store it at the bottom of the road.
 
T

Tmadse

New member
GlacierSean said:
Not sure why people don't like these but given your budget and conditions this might be a good option. https://chautauqua.craigslist.org/snw/d/dewittville-1977-tucker-sno-cat/6815272003.html

Some things to consider, a diesel cat needs to be plugged in, wide cats can be difficult to transport and may require track removal, a blade is useful.
Click to expand...




i was hoping the tucker people would chime in on the ability of the tucker to travel in deep snow. i think tuckers are really cool, but they are big and heavy and i worry they would only get me stuck ? wish that one was closer. how does a tucker perform in deep snow compared to a spryte ?
 
T

Tmadse

New member
m1west said:
I misquoted my track width on my 603 it is 34" if you go with 48" tracks it will be hard to haul unless you can store it at the bottom of the road.
Click to expand...




I live not far from the bottom of the road in a fairly remote area of wyoming, I am not worrried about traveling with a wide road from my house. do you think the 48" wide tracks would be better for deep snow ? or would they make it harder to turn in the trees ?
 
Tye one on

Tye one on

Member
Remember, advice is worth what ya pay for it. Here is my 2 cents as a “Tucker folk”. I’m not sure your gonna beat a tucker for what your trying to do. Yes, a Tucker is heavier than an imp. An imp however is not known as a machine that will climb steep slopes with lots of obstacles. Every imp owner on this site just had their head explode from that comment, It’s true though. Two trackers need brakes to turn through obsticals and that doesn’t work on slopes unfortunately. I have never been in 6-8 feet of powder but a solid 4 feet with zero issues. Mine is a 1500 series so if that doesn’t float enough there is a 1600 and a wide track version that would be unstoppable in my opinion. You paid nothing so this advice is worthless!!�� Cheers my friend, good luck in your search. Now bring on the Imp owners to blow my shit up!
 
sno-drifter

sno-drifter

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
GlacierSean said:
Not sure why people don't like these but given your budget and conditions this might be a good option. https://chautauqua.craigslist.org/snw/d/dewittville-1977-tucker-sno-cat/6815272003.html

Some things to consider, a diesel cat needs to be plugged in, wide cats can be difficult to transport and may require track removal, a blade is useful.
Click to expand...

Go buy this cat and build what ever kind of a box on the back. Drive to NY and pick it up. You are still big bucks ahead of the game. If you are not a gearhead, it could be expensive to rehab. Gear head, no problem.

I would not remove the blade but if that is what you want to do, sell the blade, and now you have a FREE Sno-Cat.

Can't believe this is a $4000 cat. You better go get this before I do.
 
T

Tmadse

New member
Tye one on said:
Remember, advice is worth what ya pay for it. Here is my 2 cents as a “Tucker folk”. I’m not sure your gonna beat a tucker for what your trying to do. Yes, a Tucker is heavier than an imp. An imp however is not known as a machine that will climb steep slopes with lots of obstacles. Every imp owner on this site just had their head explode from that comment, It’s true though. Two trackers need brakes to turn through obsticals and that doesn’t work on slopes unfortunately. I have never been in 6-8 feet of powder but a solid 4 feet with zero issues. Mine is a 1500 series so if that doesn’t float enough there is a 1600 and a wide track version that would be unstoppable in my opinion. You paid nothing so this advice is worthless!!�� Cheers my friend, good luck in your search. Now bring on the Imp owners to blow my shit up!
Click to expand...

About half a mile of the road I want to travel is on a side hill, I keep reading how the ticker can easily tip, it this is usually something I read from someone who doesn’t own a tucker, what are your experiences on side hills ?
 
sno-drifter

sno-drifter

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Tmadse said:
About half a mile of the road I want to travel is on a side hill, I keep reading how the ticker can easily tip, it this is usually something I read from someone who doesn’t own a tucker, what are your experiences on side hills ?
Click to expand...

I have had a steel pontoon Tucker at 45 degrees (100%) when I chickened out. Have not rolled one yet. Been doing it for a while.
 
T

Tmadse

New member
sno-drifter said:
Go buy this cat and build what ever kind of a box on the back. Drive to NY and pick it up. You are still big bucks ahead of the game. If you are not a gearhead, it could be expensive to rehab. Gear head, no problem.

I would not remove the blade but if that is what you want to do, sell the blade, and now you have a FREE Sno-Cat.

Can't believe this is a $4000 cat. You better go get this before I do.
Click to expand...

I called the guy , it’s sold .
 
Tye one on

Tye one on

Member
I can tell you that yiu will be way more uncomfortable in a two tracker (unless your in a groomer with 60” tracks) than you will ever be in a Tucker. I was on a trip last season in the Mt Hood area where we were required to traverse a serious slope, had to be all of 45 degrees. All of the machines were 1500 or 500 Tucker’s, did I pucker a little? Yes! However, all machines were exceptionally stable and manouverable. Definitely not something I would think unless I had experienced it. Cheers!
 
Last edited:
GMoose

GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I can't help much, but I run my cat at an elevation of around 6,000 to 7,000 foot elevation most of the time. I just went to the Colorado Jamboree and was at around 11,000 foot elevation. I had a considerable reduction in power from my naturally aspirated gas engine. You may want to consider something that is turbo charged for the elevation you are going to be using it at. Also, last weekend I attempted some rather risky maneuvers with my cat, I have no blade and would have loved to have one so I could level out the snow on the road. Ended up having to turn around because of the angled slope the snow drifted over the road, and on the return trip the cat wanted to slide toward the cliff, not good, wished I had a blade. Not much help but a couple things to consider.
 
T

Tmadse

New member
Ski Lima said:
You mentioned you were looking at a wide track Spryte, I just watched this video of one. At about 1:40 there is a pretty steep looking grade that it handles just fine. Fun video to watch if nothing else

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73tIaLXUKEc
Click to expand...




funny i have not seen that video, i have looked at a heck of alot of youtube videos. But i have not seen a video of one in really deep snow, even this video the snow appears to be only 3-4 foot deep. but the spryte really seems to float on the snow. ugh that cab doesn't look so comfortable though lol. awesome video.. thanks !!
 
1

1boringguy

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I'm a newby too so not qualified to give advice but will share a couple thoughts. If 195 feet of rise in .25 miles is your most incline, that's slightly under 15%. It's useful to remember there's a big difference between % slope and degrees. % can be thought of as number of feet change in elevation in 100 feet of distance. Hwy grades of 7% are a concern for trucks and places like Teton Pass with 10% limit truck weight, but those are puny numbers for snow cats. Bombardier gave numbers for my Skidozer:
Maximum Gradeablity; Sidehill, up to 35% Uphill, up to 60%
In less than ideal conditions it's less than that I'm sure, but still a long ways from 15%.
I have the 29 inch wide tracks and on a road with a solid base 2-3 feet of powder uphill was no problem, but at some point increase powder depth, weak base, increased incline will leave this style cat resting on it's stump plates and diff. I'm sure. I just don't have the experience to tell you where.
Another thought. On my two track machine all the grousers are parallel with each other and on hard pack or ice it slides like a sled sideways. Not the best for those conditions on a sidehill without ice cleats. A four track with even a slight amount of turn won't have all the grousers parallel and so I would imagine, be less inclinded to slip on a sidehill. Haven't heard anyone with a tucker say this yet so just my thought.

I was up that same road in the video a couple weeks ago in about the same snow conditions (3-4 inches) of new snow, and was no problem, but thats a long way from 7 foot drifts. And I would think gmoose is right on a side hill with drifts a blade is invaluable.
 
Pontoon Princess

Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
there are steel/fiberglass pontoon tuckers and rubber track tuckers,

and in the pontoon Tucker world, there are 2 pontoon, 400 series / 4 pontoon and 500 series / 5 pontoon machines, now the 2 pontoon and 400 series will fit between the fenders of a standard flatbed car trailer and weights about 4,000 lbs for the 400 series machine, a standard 20 foot car trailer with tandem axle trailer with no issues, while the 500 series machine is a full 8 feet wide and will need a over the fender flatbed trailer and weights in at over 5000 pounds.

overall, best money for the cabin/hobbyist owner, Snow Track seems to be a very good choice or the money, and they fit on a standard car trailer, Thiokol is also a good machine for the money, it will require a over the wheel flatbed, with a higher center of gravity

Honestly, Tuckers are high maintenance and can be quite costly to rehab if they need rollers, link pins and grousers and without paying some serious money up front to buy one with GOOD rollers....

so, IMHO, a good condition Snow track and or Thiokol Imp/super Imp would be a good choice for you and could be bought within your budget, frankly a Tucker is a budget buster and SLOW SLOW SLOW.
 
B

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Tmadse said:
But i have not seen a video of one in really deep snow, even this video the snow appears to be only 3-4 foot deep.
Click to expand...

I would agree on the snow depth; not impressive. This video shows a newer Tucker in deep snow, at night. This is the cab forward style, and the factory blade is fully lifted, yet it's still pushing snow. (The person that posted that has a few similar videos as well.) I like the comment at the 1:26 point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5xymCB2i-Q

The Thiokol in the video from Ski Lima is, I believe, a 1200C. My snowcat buddy, Scott bought one of those last year (2 door cab with a flatbed) at an auction, and after sales tax and "buyers premium" he was in it for less than $6K. But in fairness it was somewhat mis-advertised. It was listed as "not running", which likely scared off some bidders and kept the price down. But IIRC all Scott did was put fuel in the tank, install a working battery and a new ignition switch and voila...it was running. Technically speaking, it wasn't running, but it took precious little to correct that.

A few weeks later two more similar machines came up for auction that were slightly newer, but they had significantly more hours and needed some work. We bid on them but wanted them if, and only if we could them Uber-cheap, so not surprisingly - we didn't win.

I'm too busy right now to really provide a thorough post, but will later today. In the meantime enjoy the video.
 
J

jo5

Member
You need to go to your cabin more often so you have a base not have that much snow to go through at one time with a good base you just have the new snow
I've had six cats thug the years as transportionion cats and a groomer and dozer
Have three now my emp isa good cat to leave on the road for emergencys
Impossible to ge in rides like a bulking horse need a sports bra no clearance but does the job it was made for
My 1200c wide track was very good to wide if part of your road is plowed
My lmc 1500 36" tracks and blade is the best for me
Never had a blade before wouldn't be without one now wind and drifts dictate it's need
Seats 5 had a bed to put all the stuff (if a full cab it all has to be inside gas and all it it will fit thru the door)
Gets around good it will get you there
There not hot rods you can't beat and abuse them you take care of them and treat them right and they're take care of you
Just the thoughts of a old man that's about done with the heavy lifting
Good luck with you project and enjoy
 
M

m1west

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Tmadse said:
I live not far from the bottom of the road in a fairly remote area of wyoming, I am not worrried about traveling with a wide road from my house. do you think the 48" wide tracks would be better for deep snow ? or would they make it harder to turn in the trees ?
Click to expand...

I haven't been catting for very long myself but the experience I have had with my machine the old 603 is that an older spryte that should weigh around 3500# and 48" tracks has a lot liter foot print than my 5400# 34" tracked machine and my trip sounds similar to your trip and I haven't had any problems. I have not experienced deep powder on my trip though. Im at 6500' in the diamond mountains above Susanville ca. Probably 12-15 feet of snow with drifts that filled the whole road to the angle of the mountain. I don't know the angle of the mountain but I am side hilling over the drifts and no problems. there again not in powder. The snow seems to be wet then freezes over night. I have looked at Tuckers also but the turning radius is big and I would probably have to 3 point some of the switchbacks not to mention they are taller for sidehill and tree clearance. The pros for me with a Tucker is the wife could possibly drive it in an emergency which she could not do with the skid steer.The con is they are expensive to buy and maintain. I don't think there is a perfect machine that can do it all and if there is I can't afford it anyway. good luck and go slow.
 
J

jo5

Member
P S
You should feel bad whe you buy something
Not every time you use it
Your wife can drive a snow cat
They need to learn in case of emergencies particularly in remote areas
 
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