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Diesel or gas engine ???

BigAl

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I have slowly been building a list of improvments I want to make to my KT4 when I start to rebuild it . Engine type and size is one of those considerations . I hear alot about the new turbo diesels but then for years the snow cat companys ran their snowcats with gas engines . Is there an advantage of Diesel or Gas over the other ???? I have been looking at the small pickup diesels that are turbo powered and wondering if they might work . There should be a ton of them in the auto dismantlers to choose from ????? I figure I'll need about 80-100 horsepower . What are the pros and cons ???
 

bczoom

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BigAl said:
I figure I'll need about 80-100 horsepower
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Isn't that a bit much? I would think 45-70.

EDIT: I get it. With 100 HP, you could pull/drag about 10 snow tracs at the same time. :cool2: :yum: :hide:
 

DaveNay

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Al, my guess for the historical reasons for gasoline have something to do with the past tendancies for diesel fuel to gel in cold weather conditions. Modern diesel fuel has many more additives, and probably isn't a major concern (my tractor uses road fuel with no aftermarket additives). You might run into starting issues with exceptionally cold temperatures if you don't install a block heater, again for a "working" machine out in the woods, this would be a concer, but not for you.

I think you might have a difficult time finding a diesel that small from a passenger vehicle. Perhaps one of the Subaru or Dhiatsu trucks?
 

Melensdad

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bczoom said:
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Isn't that a bit much? I would think 45-70.

EDIT: I get it. With 100 HP, you could pull/drag about 10 snow tracs at the same time. :cool2: :yum: :hide:
Actually he has so many hydraulic do-dads and thing-a-ma-jiggies on that fiberglass bathtub of his his sucking power away from the drive system that he needs to overcome the burden of those add ons. One example is that hydraulic drink blender he installed. And the hydraulic fan to blow dry his hair. And the hydraulic rotisserie used for tailgate parties when he can't back the tub off the trailer and needs something to do so he cooks for the other snow catters who are actually out playing in the snow:yankchain:
 

BigAl

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bczoom said:
Isn't that a bit much? I would think 45-70.

Well I do not know if it is enough horsepower or too much . The KT4 wieghs around 3200 pounds . I would guess a diesel engine may add another 200 plus pounds to the total curb wieght . It can easily haul 8 -10 people with room to spare . Is there some kind of "cross over ratio" when comparing Diesel horsepower to Gas horsepower ???
I have enough room to install a big block if needed .
 

DaveNay

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BigAl said:
Well I do not know if it is enough horsepower or too much . The KT4 wieghs around 3200 pounds . I would guess a diesel engine may add another 200 plus pounds to the total curb wieght . It can easily haul 8 -10 people with room to spare . Is there some kind of "cross over ratio" when comparing Diesel horsepower to Gas horsepower ???
I have enough room to install a big block if needed .

Horsepower is horsepower is horsepower.

Gas, diesel, steam or nuclear, it's all the same.
 

BigAl

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B_Skurka said:
Actually he has so many hydraulic do-dads and thing-a-ma-jiggies on that fiberglass bathtub of his his sucking power away from the drive system that he needs to overcome the burden of those add ons. One example is that hydraulic drink blender he installed. And the hydraulic fan to blow dry his hair. And the hydraulic rotisserie used for tailgate parties when he can't back the tub off the trailer and needs something to do so he cooks for the other snow catters who are actually out playing in the snow:yankchain:

Ohhhh! Somebody got out of bed on the wrong side this morning ......
Actully Bob ,that is one hell of a good idea for the hydraulic rotisserie . That has been driving me nuts trying to come up with a workable design . I certainly don't what to blacken and burn your snow trac asses when I cook them with my superior KT7 .:moon:
 

BigAl

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DaveNay said:
Horsepower is horsepower is horsepower.

Gas, diesel, steam or nuclear, it's all the same.

Well maybe I am talking torque then ???? I know my 45 hp diesel tractor has a lot more guts than the old 45hp gas I drove .
 

DaveNay

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BigAl said:
Well maybe I am talking torque then ???? I know my 45 hp diesel tractor has a lot more guts than the old 45hp gas I drove .

You are actually talking about a whole bunch of factors. Torque generated by the engine at a given RPM and the gearing of the transmission being the two biggest.

HP = (Torque * RPM) / 5252

This is the best article I have seen regarding the relationship between torque and horsepower.
 

BigAl

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DaveNay said:
You are actually talking about a whole bunch of factors. Torque generated by the engine at a given RPM and the gearing of the transmission being the two biggest.

HP = (Torque * RPM) / 5252

This is the best article I have seen regarding the relationship between torque and horsepower.

Thanks Dave ! This is exactly what I was looking for . I think this type of input is what helps this place grow at the rate it is .
Thanks Again ,
Allen

You get a free ride when it is done !!!:a1:
 

bczoom

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I'm no engine expert but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Does the constant up and down of RPM's make a difference in engine selection?

I thought diesels (in general) like to hum along at a more constant RPM.

For the KT4, do you set the engine at a constant then just use the hydraulics to get around or does the engine RPM's go up and down when you want to change speeds?

At 3200#, it's probably close to the weight of your tractor. That's why I was thinking the HP requirements may be similar.
 

GYPSY

Member
A diesel could pose the following problems:
Cold weather starts.
Fuel problems.
Increased weight affecting ground bearing pressure (floation)
Weight of the diesel engine.
Weight of structure added to handle the increased engine
weight and torque.
Weight of the additional needed battery capacity.
Noise

If the cat is hydraulic drive, you might get more bang for your buck by making hydraulic pump and circuit changes. Hydraulic efficiences have vastly improved.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
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My vote is for a gas engine. Lots of nice 4 cylinder options for you - get a turbo for the high altitudes (and just raw bragging rights - not that you would ever brag about anything:whistle:)
 

BigAl

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PBinWA said:
(and just raw bragging rights - not that you would ever brag about anything:whistle:)

You are correct . I am just a simple man with simple needs ......:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:
 

Eric L

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mtntopper

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Ok, with a diesel driving hydraulic pumps and motors you can also do a hi/lo pump system that will change the flow rate much like a 2 speed transmission. My VMC Turbo diesel at 2400 RPM delivers minimum HP, but in the low speed power pump mode will still deliver plenty of HP to the tracks to power the cat up steep terrain. I can still run the RPM's up to about 4,000 for an added HP of about 40 more horses. The high speed setting works well on level snow terrain but the low setting will allow the cat to power up steep and deep snow conditions that the hi setting will not.

Hey DaveNay, I used to work on those engines where I could stand up in the crankcase!!!!!:cool2:
 
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