new to me ST4 questions

Greetings: Haveing just obtained my ST4, I have a few questions.

The glossy ad copy I have seems to show the forward set of bogey wheels with some sort of shield. The 1978 trac I have has none. Since it has a solid belt under the center it seems to me that a shield would help with build up around the wheels. But, having never had one of these I don't really know. What do the other owners have/ do/ don't care.

What is the normal "spare parts" carried on the unit? I'm thinking a tool kit, spare variator belt and a roll each of electrical tape, duct tape. A quart of oil and a spare fuel filter Most of my use it going up snow covered roads to communication sites. 5-10 miles at most.

My cat has no brakes. Yep the master cylinder is there, but nothing else. The guy I bought it from said" not an issue". What do other owners think?

How many of you went to the expense of buying a emergency locator beacon?

Thanks in advance

Tom

Cidertom said:

Greetings: Haveing just obtained my ST4, I have a few questions.

The glossy ad copy I have seems to show the forward set of bogey wheels with some sort of shield. The 1978 trac I have has none. Since it has a solid belt under the center it seems to me that a shield would help with build up around the wheels. But, having never had one of these I don't really know. What do the other owners have/ do/ don't care.

What is the normal "spare parts" carried on the unit? I'm thinking a tool kit, spare variator belt and a roll each of electrical tape, duct tape. A quart of oil and a spare fuel filter Most of my use it going up snow covered roads to communication sites. 5-10 miles at most.

My cat has no brakes. Yep the master cylinder is there, but nothing else. The guy I bought it from said" not an issue". What do other owners think?

How many of you went to the expense of buying a emergency locator beacon?

Thanks in advance

Tom

Click to expand...

This machine has a history on this forum....http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=52322I forget the thread name, but in the WTS is was listed a year or more ago. Before the paint job. It pulled a grommer in the Eastern US. With it you wouldn't need brakes, and it is at this time it was parted with the brake system. The new owner was here asking abuot this as well. He was told to find the mechcanic who removed them. I thought he had....

Going up with out brakes, not an issue. Down is another story. I am glad mine work, as I can pull kids up a sledding hill and stop mid way if some young'un looses his grip on the tow rope. I would hate to roll back wards over 8-10 kis in the process of trying to stop. If you ever damage anything and the other party finds out you don't even have the hardware in the machine I wouldn't want to be you....

If you spin out at the crest of a large hill, and I have here in flat old Iowa...you hold the brakes wilst you shift it to reverse for a CONTROLLED descent back down the hill with the engine doing the braking. With no brakes can you shift to reverse and JUST the right time?? If you miss reverse down you go, and gravity is your master, as you fly backwards down the mountain.....through the trees...

Finally, many Snow Tracs have front end damage from being operated with the system non funtional. Can it be done? Yes, but with real risks of life and limb and lots of bent aluminum....And liabilty for the damages if they are to some one else....

Carefull with those grousers, they may sidestep alot on an icy trail. They are more agressive than the stock ones, but also harder on the variator and other parts. Stock ones are around, but spendy if you need them all... To bad the grousers and the brakes were not in a big box with your machine. The previous owner bought it to "flip it" I fear...

I don't mean to be discouraging at all, but I wish you would have found this site back before, when it was here last. Then you would have known...

Regards, Kirk

Cidertom,

The shields you are missing are for exacly what you are thinking. Many machines have semi mud flaps mounted such they eject the snow. This is how mine is, and it works very well.. I also have ice scapers on the front drive sprockets, and if you operate at or near freezing these keep the ice off the drivers, and keeps you from over tensioning your track and breaking the axle housings $$$$$$$$ Much the same as the snow ejectors. As a pair they are very hard to beat in refreezing conditions late in the day or evening. Plus they are easy to make your self if you can weld and fab a bit...



Regards, Kirk

Whine-Whimper.
Oh well, I've rebuilt worse equipment. Do wish I had found this site first, I might or might not still have bought the unit. I might try the retro fit electric brake hubs for trailers. They would be easy enough to machine to fit on the original hubs. If not, then calipers seem to be the way to go. Doesn't seem to need progressive brakes so much as just get it stopped.

I've seen square tube on small snow machines before. Mostly because hardened steel to make semi-stock grousers isn't cheap. A36 square tube is pretty tuff stuff as is.

And the adventure begins...

Well we all start somewhere, don't we...

Yours is a very late machine as I remember, and perhps this is an advantage. Is there an hour meter? And does it work? If so and it does good chance it could be original.

Any how, this place is a wealth of info for you to explore. I suggest doing a search for "it's a surprise" By Lyndon for starters. Gold Core Mine for manuals and parts drawings, ect. Much, much more about Two band tracks and three band units...

dds here has about as many hours of time operating and working on Snow Tracs as most anyone here, except perhaps Lyndon, and knows them well. Many others with experiance on the how to, for Snow Tracs. They are a very likable machine as I have found out. And likeable owners too....

Enjoy the new toy. I like the way youre thinking outside the box on the brake issue. You going to be a good addition to the "clan" Hey redsqerl, he needs some disc brake pics!...You can search for Snow Trac #268 as it has some nice ones, except the header heats the caliper and applies the brakes as the warm up...

You can weld some longitudinal cleats to those tube grousers for side slip stops....

So tell me of your work......what you are using the Snow Trac for...

Regards, Kirk

Oh I forgot the snow deflectors...



Rear mud flap is tee pee'd over the last bogie tire, the second mud flap is to the right and ejects the snow out side the track edge. It works!

Regards, Kirk

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Like kirk said read its a suprise it will help you if your new.It's a SUPRISE! Pt 1 - Forums Forums - Off Topic Forum FUN

i run with out brakes too if i need to stop fast i shut off the motor normaly i just shift down a gear and engine drag stops it right now .some day i want the brakes back but it will be a hand operated brake as there is no room for my big feet in cold weather boots to operate all 3 peddals

JimVT said:

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Like kirk said read its a suprise it will help you if your new.It's a SUPRISE! Pt 1 - Forums Forums - Off Topic Forum FUN

Click to expand...

Thanks Jim. These brakes work really well..... Unless you are pulling a heavy load in deep wet snow. the heat from the header. *which is a failure as well) boiled the brake fluid. the problem has been remideed and no longer is a issue. good luck with your new toy,
FWIW, I tried buying that cat three times. Once when it was out east once when it was newly out west and once after some *work* was done to it. could never come to terms with the seller. I think you have a lot of potential. there.

On the brakes. I don't know enough yet to know what I'm doing, so the following may be a dumb question.

Is there any slip in the transaxle on the ST4? I'm wondering when I install brakes if I could put in a cut off / throttle valve on each side. Reading the owners manual (what parts I have) it says in the case of a failed variator system the trac still moves, but won't steer. I'm thinking a failsafe, get back to the road, backup steering (really crude) system.

Or am I fearing the unlikely failure?

Tom,

One thing I do know. If you need to stop, no matter how steep an angle, turn the key and you will stop. The engine will hold the tracks regardless....

As for the turn brakes, redsqwrl has a St4B with such a set up for aiding turning in very deep snow. So yes your on the right track. I kinda knew you'd fit right in here real well. Maybe when you said something about machining the hubs to fit electric brakes....SO hows the the Pub tonight?

Regards, Kirk

OK, I will grab a camera and head off into the snow. Yes it is snowing. and get a picture. (the weather channel is like a porn channel when snow is in the forecast)

Tom the only thing I am thinking is if you are headed up or down and you stab the cutting brake, You will mildly pitch yourself towards the direction you are braking. the belt between the variator sheeves will try to transfer torque to the other side, But by then you may find your self sideways.

also Tom, the best thing I did when I stumbled into the camoflaged machine pictured above with disc brakes was tow it. (the motor ran poorly and rather than torture what was left of the little motor, I towed it with artic cat ATV and I learned alot about the variator by watching it work while being towed) Lyndon or melensdad have a nice blow up of the parts and they all make sense after you see it work.

Now where is that camera.

Camera was right where I left it. first photo is the Cutting brake. I looked for a check valve I could not find one so this must be a presurized cutting brake. (although I don't get hard feed back when I use both brakes) There must be a check vlave.

Either way here is a progression of photos. from brake fluid resivor to drum brake.

Tom remember the belt negates any idea of dozer steering. view this brake setup up as a trimming device and an emergency / recovery system or item.

I may be misguided by my own ignorance but My limited knowledge of Variators (which i admit is from haybines) dictates that it is not truly posible to brake steer a Snow trac with the belt on.

Oh and as long as the coffee is talking,

With the belt off the diff in the VW Trans would not last long in a brake steer application.

Good AM.\\

Mike

as far as the cutting brake the only time that may help is if the varriator belt broke. with the belt in place it's going to be like a racing spool with power to both tracks. i don't think its necessary to have the cutting brake as i run trips of up to a hundred miles in a day wit out a varriator failure. but the weak point is the belt replace the old one with a new one save the old for a spare.

Thanks for the info. I may just skip the cutting brakes then. I have a spare new belt on the rig and the tools required to change it if required.

So much to learn, and so little time to learn it. Heading up to a site monday, will post results.

what you want to look closely at are the drive splines on the axle hub and large drive sprokets, these are prone to wear and when they let loose you are sol.there are varrious fixes out there i found belzonna super e-metal iss the fastest and easyest way to fix worn splines