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What is so great about Harley Davidson?

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
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My exec V.P. wants to buy a motorcycle. Not just any motorcycle, he has a specific H.D. picked out, I honestly cannot remember what model it is, maybe a fatboy? He is adamant about buying an American made cycle.

I suggested he might want to look at Victory or Indian. He ruled them out without consideration. He just wants a H.D.

So beyond scooters, I know nothing :biker:

So what is so good about H.D., is it just the name, or the look, or the quality or the brotherhood, or what?

Here are a couple differnet Indian photos (Chief & Spirit) and a Victory (Kingpin). They all look good to me too. Is there something wrong with these brands?
 

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MadReferee

New member
B_Skurka said:
So what is so good about H.D., is it just the name, or the look, or the quality or the brotherhood, or what?
Ego, plain and simple.

MadReferee
former AMA pro dirt track racer back in the 70's and 80's
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
MadReferee said:
Ego, plain and simple.
OK if it is EGO is that like the guys who wear Rolex watches because they think they are the best but when people who know watches look at them they realize that the guy with the Rolex is wearing a $9000 machine made watch and could have spent his money on a far more exclusive handmade watch instead?

So why not buy an Indian or a Victory and get a motorcycle that has a similar look and is just as American made, but is more exclusive?
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
It's marketing baby! Brand loyalty is the ultimate goal in building a brand.

Harley Davidson owns the US Motorcycle market. Especially, when it comes to middle age men.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Resale value, mystique and frankly, the other American V-twins are inferior. I have a 86 Tour Glide Classic with 104,000 miles on it and I can get damn near what I paid for it!
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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PBinWA said:
It's marketing baby!
Big Dog said:
Resale value, mystique and frankly, the other American V-twins are inferior.
So the Indian is simply not as good? If that is true, then I can certainly understand the bias in favor of the H.D.

And I understand the logic of resale value, it can make a big difference in the total cost of ownership. Sort of like our tractors . . . my Kubota and N.H. would probably sell for their original purchase price, but my Ventrac would have to be deeply discounted to find a buyer.

But mystique. :confused2: I'd rather have an RGM, Piaget or other handmade watch to any Rolex. So I don't understand that one. Now I do understand advertising and the hypnotism of the masses. You can use advertising to make the common man 'believe' that something is good but that does not mean that it is in fact better than an alternative. Again, there are folks who really know their stuff, to those folks I wonder if H.D. is good enough? And please don't get me wrong, I openly admit to know nothing about these brands so maybe H.D. is really the best brand of production bikes out there.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Big Dog said:
Resale value, mystique and frankly, the other American V-twins are inferior. I have a 86 Tour Glide Classic with 104,000 miles on it and I can get damn near what I paid for it!

Yeah - but you also own a purple shotgun!:yankchain:
 

BoneheadNW

New member
Before getting married, I owned a couple of Suzukis (known as "rice burners" to the HD riders). One of these bikes was basically a stock 750, but was extrememly light and powerful, which made it very fast and great handling, although it was not the most comfortable thing to ride for more than a couple of hours at a time. HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.

Can you tell how I feel about HDs? No offense BD.:whistle:
Bonehead
 

Cityboy

Banned
B_Skurka said:
So what is so good about H.D., is it just the name, or the look, or the quality or the brotherhood, or what?

All of the above, plus it has also become a status symbol. I know lots of "Harley guys", and they have different reasons for owning them. But to a man, these guys would own nothing else.

An old Marine buddy owned an Electraglide before it was fashonable to do so. Back in the early 80's, you could get a brand new low-end Harley at the dealership in Twentynine Palms for about $2,500. I doubt you could get the low-end Harley for less than 10K now. He almost had me talked into buying one, but another guy in my platoon got smashed up pretty bad on his bike and wound up in traction for about 6+ months and I decided I was not biker material. Back then, it seemed like a Marine a month was killed in a motorcycle accident. Citygirl calls motorcycles "donor-cycles"; as in organ donor. (She's an ICU nurse) At any rate, I still have no desire to own one. I'll stick to my bicycle.

My brother and best friend own Electraglides. Both were bikers before being a biker was cool. My brother had a really loud BSA when he was younger. Now he's 58 and going through his second childhood. Guess he figured he could afford it , so why not? He's in a bike club with a bunch of other middle aged guys. They seem to have a blast just cruising around on the weekends.

Harley-Davidson has the high demand product that middle-aged men AND women want, whatever their reason for wanting one may be. They have a loyal following like no other product I can think of. It is simply supply and demand of a luxury product at work.

The other bikes you mentioned look pretty nice to me too; but the fact is, they're not Harleys, and they have a looooooong way to go before they acquire anything remotely resembling the Harley mystique.
 

Cityboy

Banned
BoneheadNW said:
HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.

Can you tell how I feel about HDs? No offense BD.:whistle:
Bonehead

I saw a T-shirt in Easy Rider magazine that your story reminds me of Bone. The caption on the T-shirt said:

"Riding a Jap Bike is like Fu*king a faggot. They both feel pretty good until someone you know sees you doing it."

Is that how those mean old Harley guys made you feel? :hide: :whistle: :D :D :yankchain:
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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Cityboy said:
The other bikes you mentioned look pretty nice to me too; but the fact is, they're not Harleys, and they have a looooooong way to go before they acquire anything remotely resembling the Harley mystique.
So this is NOT the same arguement that Big 3 tractor owners have with minor brands? I honestly see the Big 3 tractor brands as costing more, but also providing more refinement, better ergonomics, etc. With H.D. there seems to be no claim that the motorcycles are designed better, more refined, more reliable (in the old days that was obviously not true). It seems like the H.D. is 'mystique' and 'aura' and not substance, but not saying they are bad, just saying the whole issue of the brand popularity revolves around the brand itself and nothing more?
 

Big Dog

Large Member
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BoneheadNW said:
Before getting married, I owned a couple of Suzukis (known as "rice burners" to the HD riders). One of these bikes was basically a stock 750, but was extrememly light and powerful, which made it very fast and great handling, although it was not the most comfortable thing to ride for more than a couple of hours at a time. HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.

Can you tell how I feel about HDs? No offense BD.:whistle:
Bonehead

None taken........ I've heard it all! My first bike was a Yamaha 750. In ten months I nearly killed myself three times, I didn't own it 12 months. I went with Harley because their big and heavy, alot like me. I had no business on a bike half the weight as my Harley.

Now your rice burners, I dare you to try and do what I've done on my bike as to traveling. I've done 850 miles a day more times than I can count. I did Loozyana to PA in 22 hours. You ain't doing that on any rice burner! Now I ain't saying the tourers from the Japanese ain't nice, but they sorta look like something you launch instead of ride on..............just my opinion.

The Harley is the right bike for ME! I don't need to go fast.........quick! But I can run 90mph + all day long on my Harley. Besides, I'd look like a monkey doing a football on anything without fairing and saddle bags..........:yum:

BTW......... There is a reason that most custom shops do S&S's motors, they're a evolution engine clone! The Harley V-twin is the strongest air-cooled engine of it's genre out there........IMO.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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Big Dog said:
There is a reason that most custom shops do S&S's motors, they're a evolution engine clone! The Harley V-twin is the strongest air-cooled engine of it's genre out there........IMO.
Now that is a LEGITIMATE reason to buy a H.D.

Any clue how they compare to the Indian or the Victory? Both of those seem to have homegrown engines that they claim to be of their own design.
 

Cityboy

Banned
B_Skurka said:
So this is NOT the same arguement that Big 3 tractor owners have with minor brands? I honestly see the Big 3 tractor brands as costing more, but also providing more refinement, better ergonomics, etc. With H.D. there seems to be no claim that the motorcycles are designed better, more refined, more reliable (in the old days that was obviously not true). It seems like the H.D. is 'mystique' and 'aura' and not substance, but not saying they are bad, just saying the whole issue of the brand popularity revolves around the brand itself and nothing more?

No, I don't think that at all. I believe Harley is now an extremely high quality product; far more so than they were in the 70's and 80's. I think it is a combination if things that lend Harley the "mystique", high quality being one of its major contributors.

Those bikes you mentioned are probably no better or worse quality than the Harley, but they have not achieved the level of noteriety that Harley has yet. Harley-Davidson is a family owned company that has been around a long, long time and has had its ups and downs, figured out its problems and is sky rocketing so far past the competetion that its competetors can't even see their dust right now.

I certainly would not write Harley off as a "name-but-no-substance" company. They are filling a want of millions of satisfied customers and have certainly found their market niche.
 

HGM

New member
B_Skurka said:
Now that is a LEGITIMATE reason to buy a H.D.

Any clue how they compare to the Indian or the Victory? Both of those seem to have homegrown engines that they claim to be of their own design.


The latest version of Indians run S&S engines, back to point one....:whistle:

The Indian bike you showed in your link is nothing more than a warmed over Harley clone, no offence to anyone who has one.. They are nice bikes, using quite possibly better parts than the Harley, but they will never compare in resale.. Indian motor company tried and failed to come back a few years ago, honestly, I didnt think you could still get one...

HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.

The riders I have the most problem with are the ones who think they are better than anyone else(no matter what they ride, Jap bike riders do it too)... If Harley riders are treating you like this, they are probably RUBs(Rich Urban Bikers) with more money than sense... I refuse to ride with these weekend warriors and I'm a Harley rider.. They are dangerous as well as ignorant..

As fot the bailout, I may be mistaken, but to my understanding it was not a government buy out.. However, the Harley and Davidson families who bought them out and saved the company from bankrupsy at the hands of AMF(a bowling ball/tennis racket company:pat: )..

My opinion on the bikes.... I love the Harley, I dont care to have anything else.. Is it better, maybe maybe not.. They cant run 13,000rpm, they typicaly cant do a 1/4mi in 8sec or run 180mph... But they are comfortable, reliable and they feeling you get from the vibration(non sexual, though some women may disagree) and the sound is unmistakable and irreplaceable(?).. Bob mentioned the tractor comparrison and I couldnt think of a better one.. JD is living off its herritage more than anything else.. The brand has only changed when it had to, they really dont need to advertise and people who have never seen a real tractor own their shirts and hats... Marketing, mistique and heritage...:cool2:
 

OhioTC18

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
Direct from H-D's website...........

1981
On February 26, thirteen Harley-Davidson senior executives sign a letter of intent to purchase Harley-Davidson Motor Company from AMF. By mid-June, the buyback is official, and the phrase "The Eagle Soars Alone" becomes a rallying cry.

1983
Harley-Davidson successfully petitions the International Trade Commission (ITC) for tariff relief, which is granted April 1, 1983. The tariff, scheduled to end five years later, is placed on all imported Japanese motorcycles 700cc or larger as a response to Japanese motorcycle manufacturers stockpiling inventories of unsold motorcycles in the United States.
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
HD's are great bikes no doubt. My only road bike was a Kawasaki KZ1100, great bike in it's own, but too many idiot drivers, and if I was going to get killed, I wanted it done by my own stupidity, not someone elses.

That said, a question for you HD drivers. Why so fuc*ing loud?!!!!

Love those guys that come up behind you driving HD's and they have to rev their engine that seems like they are sreaming "look at me, I'm on a bad ass Harley". Just don't get it. Have a guy in town that usually drives by the house on weekend nights. I swear, you can hear him 100 yards away. Great bike, just too many people that drive them that think the louder they are the more "bad ass" they are.
 

MadReferee

New member
Cityboy said:
Harley-Davidson is a family owned company that has been around a long, long time and has had its ups and downs, figured out its problems and is sky rocketing so far past the competetion that its competetors can't even see their dust right now.
Harley-Davidson is a publically traded company (NYSE:HOG). They have not been "family" owned for decades. They were previously owned by AMF from 1969 until 1981 when the current management team bought controlling interest from AMF.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
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HGM said:
The latest version of Indians run S&S engines, back to point one....:whistle:
The Indian Motorcycle Corporation reintroduced in 1999 had relied on S&S engines (clones of the Harley Evolution engine) for its first three model years but all along had been working on a new engine, the Powerplus™ 100, specifically made for the new Indian. That engine was introduced in their 2002 Chief models while the other Indian models continue to use the S&S engine.

BTW................Indian discontinued manufacturing in 2003 due to investor backout and just reformed again on 6/20/06 hoping to restart production in 2007!

Now why did they use S&S? Becuase the evolutuon engine is superior. Ohio got it right on the buy out and I bought 100 shares of stock when they went public for $11 a piece. Harley is a quality motorcycle and has choosen to stay with the V-twin for ease of styling other then there venture into the V-4 in the V-Rod to compete with the rice rockets. Sitting on a 6-cylinder feels like riding a bull. My exhaust is stock and will stay that way because it was designed as such. Now if I still had my AMF Lowrider it would have drag pipes because nothing sounds like a shovelhead with drag pipes................:D
 

Cityboy

Banned
MadReferee said:
Harley-Davidson is a publically traded company (NYSE:HOG). They have not been "family" owned for decades. They were previously owned by AMF from 1969 until 1981 when the current management team bought controlling interest from AMF.

I stand corrected; they went public in 1987. I thought I had read somewhere that HD was still controlled by relations of Bill Harley and Arthur Davidson. :eek: Should have double-checked.

According to what I read, Harley merged with AMF in 1969 and was bought back by senior Harley people in 1981 and became a private company again. Here is a timeline:

http://www.harley.munising.com/

At any rate, like them or not, you cannot argue with HD's success. I've never even owned a motorcycle and probably never will; but if I ever do, it will be a Harley.

Here's a Harley history web page:

http://www.powerpassion.nl/harley/story-engels.html
 

HGM

New member
OhioTC18 said:
Direct from H-D's website...........
1983
Harley-Davidson successfully petitions the International Trade Commission (ITC) for tariff relief, which is granted April 1, 1983. The tariff, scheduled to end five years later, is placed on all imported Japanese motorcycles 700cc or larger as a response to Japanese motorcycle manufacturers stockpiling inventories of unsold motorcycles in the United States.

I wasnt aware of that, sort of to even the playing feild I guess..

That said, a question for you HD drivers. Why so fuc*ing loud?!!!!

Love those guys that come up behind you driving HD's and they have to rev their engine that seems like they are sreaming "look at me, I'm on a bad ass Harley". Just don't get it. Have a guy in town that usually drives by the house on weekend nights. I swear, you can hear him 100 yards away. Great bike, just too many people that drive them that think the louder they are the more "bad ass" they are.

I've asked the same thing... I like a promenant rumble, like only a Harley can produce..:a1: But, the drag pipes and the unrelenting over reving bugs me too.. The issue is more that it makes the whole motorcycling comunity look bad.. I do agree that some sound pretty good, but there is such a thing as too loud and obnoxious.. The idea that most go with is "loud pipes save lives".. I do agree with that to a degree as well and have experienced it myself while riding.
 

Cityboy

Banned
HGM said:
I've asked the same thing... I like a promenant rumble, like only a Harley can produce..:a1: But, the drag pipes and the unrelenting over reving bugs me too.. The issue is more that it makes the whole motorcycling comunity look bad.. I do agree that some sound pretty good, but there is such a thing as too loud and obnoxious.. The idea that most go with is "loud pipes save lives".. I do agree with that to a degree as well and have experienced it myself while riding.

Kind of like those Dodge Cummins pick-up owners that idle constantly while fueling up, or going into Walmart. Yup, actually seen it happen more than once. "Hey look at me! I got a Cummins!" Maybe they wanna be a trucker when they grow up? Always makes me chuckle. :yankchain:
 

HGM

New member
Cityboy said:
Kind of like those Dodge Cummins pick-up owners that idle constantly while fueling up, or going into Walmart. Yup, actually seen it happen more than once. "Hey look at me! I got a Cummins!" Maybe they wanna be a trucker when they grow up? Always makes me chuckle. :yankchain:


:yum: :yum:
 

REDDOGTWO

Unemployed Veg. Peddler
SUPER Site Supporter
B_Skurka said:
My exec V.P. wants to buy a motorcycle. Not just any motorcycle, he has a specific H.D. picked out, I honestly cannot remember what model it is, maybe a fatboy? He is adamant about buying an American made cycle.

I suggested he might want to look at Victory or Indian. He ruled them out without consideration. He just wants a H.D.

So beyond scooters, I know nothing :biker:

So what is so good about H.D., is it just the name, or the look, or the quality or the brotherhood, or what?

Here are a couple differnet Indian photos (Chief & Spirit) and a Victory (Kingpin). They all look good to me too. Is there something wrong with these brands?

If I have to explain it, you would not understand.
 

REDDOGTWO

Unemployed Veg. Peddler
SUPER Site Supporter
OhioTC18 said:
Direct from H-D's website...........

1981
On February 26, thirteen Harley-Davidson senior executives sign a letter of intent to purchase Harley-Davidson Motor Company from AMF. By mid-June, the buyback is official, and the phrase "The Eagle Soars Alone" becomes a rallying cry.

1983
Harley-Davidson successfully petitions the International Trade Commission (ITC) for tariff relief, which is granted April 1, 1983. The tariff, scheduled to end five years later, is placed on all imported Japanese motorcycles 700cc or larger as a response to Japanese motorcycle manufacturers stockpiling inventories of unsold motorcycles in the United States.

Harley-Davidson also petitioned the International Trade Commission to have the tariff lifted a year earlier than the time period for which it was orgianlly granted.
 

REDDOGTWO

Unemployed Veg. Peddler
SUPER Site Supporter
BoneheadNW said:
Before getting married, I owned a couple of Suzukis (known as "rice burners" to the HD riders). One of these bikes was basically a stock 750, but was extrememly light and powerful, which made it very fast and great handling, although it was not the most comfortable thing to ride for more than a couple of hours at a time. HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.

Can you tell how I feel about HDs? No offense BD.:whistle:
Bonehead

To the best of my knowledge, the U.S. government did not bail out the Harley-Davidson company. Harley-Davidson requested relief from the dumping of Jap motorcycles on the domestic market from the ITC, a surcharge was put on the imported motorcylces of app 700CC and up, the surcharge was to last five years, HD petitioned to have the surcharge lifted a year earlier than when it was supposed to end. In response to the surcharge, a lot of models that were 750CC came out with an engine that was 697cc's.

An example of this dumping of motorcycles on the US market is the Yamaha 550 Maxim. In 1983 this model retailed for about $2999, but there was an extreme number of non current models in the US pipline from Yamaha's attempt to gain the number one spot from Honda. Thousands of 1982 550 Maxims were sold in the $1500 price range.
 

BoneheadNW

New member
Oh My God! Part of an HD made in Australia! The icon of U.S. motorcycles has wheels made by Aussies. What is this world coming to? The next thing you know, we will find out that some parts come from China. Now THAT would really be funny.:horsepoop:
Bonehead
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
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BoneheadNW said:
Oh My God! Part of an HD made in Australia! The icon of U.S. motorcycles has wheels made by Aussies. What is this world coming to? The next thing you know, we will find out that some parts come from China. Now THAT would really be funny.:horsepoop:
Bonehead

Their frontends are made in Japan BH...............:rolleyes:
 

REDDOGTWO

Unemployed Veg. Peddler
SUPER Site Supporter
About ten years ago, seven percent of the motorcycle was imported from other countries. I do not know if that was number of componets or dollar wise.
 
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