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Pope's exorcist squads will wage war on Satan

Cityboy

Banned
Holy crap! look at the pic of da pope! I think he might need a little excorcising. :4_11_9: Check out his eyes!! Interesting article below. Is this a real problem? Do you believe anyone is actually posessed out there and needs an excorcism?

Pope's exorcist squads will wage war on Satan

By NICK PISA - Last updated at 16:34pm on 29th December 2007

Comments (8)



The Pope has ordered his bishops to set up exorcism squads to tackle the rise of Satanism.

Vatican chiefs are concerned at what they see as an increased interest in the occult.

They have introduced courses for priests to combat what they call the most extreme form of "Godlessness."

Each bishop is to be told to have in his diocese a number of priests trained to fight demonic possession.

The initiative was revealed by 82-year-old Father Gabriele Amorth, the Vatican "exorcistinchief," to the online Catholic news service Petrus.

"Thanks be to God, we have a Pope who has decided to fight the Devil head-on," he said.

"Too many bishops are not taking this seriously and are not delegating their priests in the fight against the Devil. You have to hunt high and low for a properly trained exorcist.

"Thankfully, Benedict XVI believes in the existence and danger of evil - going back to the time he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith." The CDF is the oldest Vatican department and was headed by Benedict from 1982, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, until he became Pope in 2005.

Father Amorth said that during his time at the department Benedict had not lost the chance to warn humanity of the risk from the Devil.

He said the Pope wants to restore a prayer seen as protection against evil that was traditionally recited at the end of Catholic Masses. The prayer, to St Michael the Archangel, was dropped in the 1960s by Pope John XXIII. Scroll down for more...
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The 1973 film The Exorcist deals with the demonic possession of a young girl: Now the Pope wants specialist exorcism squads in every parish



"The prayer is useful not only for priests but also for lay people in helping to fight demons," he said.

Father Paolo Scarafoni, who lectures on the Vatican's exorcism course, said interest in Satanism and the occult has grown as people lost faith with the church.

He added: "People suffer and think that turning to the Devil can help solve their problems. We are being bombarded by requests for exorcisms."

The Vatican is particularly concerned that young people are being exposed to the influence of Satanic sects through rock music and the Internet.

In theory, under the Catholic Church's Canon Law 1172, all priests can perform exorcisms. But in reality only a select few are assigned the task.

Under the law, practitioners must have "piety, knowledge, prudence, and integrity of life." The rite of exorcism involves a series of gestures and prayers to invoke the power of God and stop the "demon" influencing its victim.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Don't believe everything you read about the Catholic Church, many people simply misunderstand it, others misrepresent it. Others, as in this case, are just wrong.

Catholic News Agency said:
New emphasis on exorcism? Vatican denies report

Vatican, Dec. 28, 2007 (CWNews.com) -

The Vatican has denied a report that Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) plans a new emphasis on exorcisms.

In an interview with Italy's Petrus web site, which concentrates on Vatican affairs, Father Gabriele Amorth, the official exorcist of the Rome diocese, said that the Holy Father would soon undertake a new campaign to combat demonic possession. "Thank God," said the Italian priest, "we have a Pope who has decided to confront the devil head-on."

Father Amorth-- who has gained a worldwide reputation as an expert of the subject, and the author of a popular book on exorcism and demonic possession-- told Petrus that a new Vatican document would call for the designation of exorcists in every Catholic diocese around the world. He also said that Pope Benedict would restore the tradition of reciting the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, composed by Pope Leo XIII, at the end of every Mass.

But Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Vatican press office, flatly denied the Petrus report. The papal spokesman said: "Pope Benedict XVI has no intention of ordering local bishops to bring in garrisons of exorcists to fight demonic possession.”

The topic of exorcism commands considerable public interest in Italy, and Father Amorth has frequently generated attention with his warnings about the unchecked spread of diabolical influence. In a new course on the topic, being offered by the pontifical university Regina Apostolorum in Rome, Father Paolo Scarafoni has warned that Satanic cults are making inroads in Italian society, and cautioned that the influence of the devil is real-- although he has also reported that most suspected cases of demonic possession can be explained by other factors.
 

Cityboy

Banned
Don't believe everything you read about the Catholic Church, many people simply misunderstand it, others misrepresent it. Others, as in this case, are just wrong.

Nah, I think the pope actually called for this and his handlers at the Vatican reined him in.

I think many people understand it, and publish what they know, and then the damage control propaganda units are rolled out to tell us we really don't understand afterall. :rolleyes:

But we can still talk about whether demon posession actually exists or not. :spacecraft:
 

Sir Knight

New member
Let's not forget that the devil's greatest trick was to convince the world he didn't exist. If one believes in Jesus, then one HAS TO believe in the devil -- otherwise one CAN NOT HAVE faith in Jesus. If the devil existed back in biblical times possessing people, there is no reason to doubt that he and his fallen angels continue to do so today. And just as the apostles had the authority to drive out the devil, the successors of the apostles continue to have that same power today -- and that power NEEDS TO BE used.

Now, if one does not believe in Christ, then there is about much proof for the devil as there is for the tooth fairy.
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Let's not forget that the devil's greatest trick was to convince the world he didn't exist. If one believes in Jesus, then one HAS TO believe in the devil -- otherwise one CAN NOT HAVE faith in Jesus. If the devil existed back in biblical times possessing people, there is no reason to doubt that he and his fallen angels continue to do so today. And just as the apostles had the authority to drive out the devil, the successors of the apostles continue to have that same power today -- and that power NEEDS TO BE used.

Now, if one does not believe in Christ, then there is about much proof for the devil as there is for the tooth fairy.


Well Said. One thing I would like to add is you can't believe in heaven if you don't believe in hell.
 

Cityboy

Banned
Let's not forget that the devil's greatest trick was to convince the world he didn't exist. If one believes in Jesus, then one HAS TO believe in the devil -- otherwise one CAN NOT HAVE faith in Jesus. If the devil existed back in biblical times possessing people, there is no reason to doubt that he and his fallen angels continue to do so today. And just as the apostles had the authority to drive out the devil, the successors of the apostles continue to have that same power today -- and that power NEEDS TO BE used.

Now, if one does not believe in Christ, then there is about much proof for the devil as there is for the tooth fairy.

I think that is true. Check this out and tell me what you think:


Part 1-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeZB2EsPqGE

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmzai...eature=related

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6UdQ...eature=related
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
Do you think that Vatican exorcist has a ritual to remove the last traces of Norton AV from a new Laptop? I think I got it all, but you can't be too sure with something like that.

Crusader, did Christ have much to say about the devil? Not in the sense a generalized force of evil, but the devil specifically as a humanoid individual. I'm drawing a blank trying to recall that in something Christ spoke.
 

Deadly Sushi

The One, The Only, Sushi
SUPER Site Supporter
Norton AV is crap. The NEW version that just came out is pretty good though from what I hear. California make sure to install and run the registry cleaner. Its very important! http://filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/
I use CCleaner every week. Its great! :thumb:

Perhaps the author meant Satin sheets? :poke:

lol!! You know, if Jesus came back he could really help us out here. :rolleyes:
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
California make sure to install and run the registry cleaner. Its very important! http://filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/
Yep. I use CCleaner a few times a year on everything. Running it was the last step in setting up this system.

On this laptop I found HP had put on Adobe Reader Preload and Adobe Collaboration-something Preload. My kid (I gave her the laptop for Christmas) may use Adobe reader but she'll never use that other one. These and several other preloaders just gunked up the machine for no benefit whatever. Removing all the preloaders and substituting AVG for Norton, then adding a second gig of ram, made this $399 laptop into a nice little system for her.
 

daedong

New member
Does anyone have any comments regarding cityboys youtube links. I played all 3, found them extremely interesting. I find the similarities between the ancient Egyptian religion and Christianity amazing, can anyone dispute these claims?
 

Cityboy

Banned
Does anyone have any comments regarding cityboys youtube links. I played all 3, found them extremely interesting. I find the similarities between the ancient Egyptian religion and Christianity amazing, can anyone dispute these claims?

It's not gonna happen D. For some reason, folks seem reluctant to even look at anything that remotely questions Christianity. There is a deep seated fear of being considered blasphemous. I used to feel this way too because of my upbringing, then I started asking questions of my own self. Those questions led to more questions, which led to more questions...........and I'm still asking questions.

I would love to discuss this further with my Christian friends if they would only open their minds to the possibility that reality could be something different than they were taught. My family on both mine and my wifes side were brought up to be Christians. Why? For no other reasons than the generations prior were told the same story, and that story was passed down to them. It is drilled into Christians that they will face hell and eternal damnation by merely questioning the lack of any historical record of Jesus by the historians of the region of that time. This very fact of Christianity + fear + lack of legitimate historical documentation has driven me to question my own upbringing and the validity of Christianity and the very existence of Jesus.

There is a reason the story of Jesus is called "The Greatest STORY ever told." It is simply another of many stories told by men, documented in early Egyptian religions.

Seek the truth, wherever the truth may lead you. The evidence I am discovering is that Christmas was celebrated by the Pagans thousands of years before Jesus's alleged birth as nothing more than the winter solstice. And the same with Easter as a celebration by the Pagans based in Astrology. Think about that. Thousands of years before "Christ" Easter and Christmas were celebrated, and it is historically documented. If this is true, then Christianity is a farce - Mythology, if you will.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Does anyone have any comments regarding cityboys youtube links. I played all 3, found them extremely interesting. I find the similarities between the ancient Egyptian religion and Christianity amazing, can anyone dispute these claims?
ZEITGEIST: REFUTING THE SPIRIT OF THE AGE
by Elliott Nesch

Throughout history many people have examined the evidence regarding the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To any unbiased observer who is willing to examine the Gospel without prejudice, the accumulated evidence regarding the Gospel record is truly overwhelming.

For atheists, agnostics and even Christians . . . what you are about to see may shock you. For the doubting Thomas of our day, this film will show you the wounds in the hands and side of the resurrected One: Jesus Christ.

Jesus said, “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32).

Many unbelievers will argue that Christianity was created by the political establishment for social control, but this argument is inconsistent with the message of the Bible. For instance, in the Gospel of John, Jesus referred to Satan as the ruler of this world. He said that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of judgment “because the ruler of this world is judged” (John 16:11). Jesus said, “If Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?” (Matthew 12:26). Also, Peter taught to “obey God rather than men” (Acts 5:29).
Around A.D. 95, John received the vision which he recorded in the Book of Revelation. John spoke of several beast empires throughout world history. He said, “And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going into perdition.” (Revelation 17:10,11). John the Revelator and the prophet Daniel spoke of a final beast empire and world government that would be ruled by 10 kings in the last days (Daniel 7:24; Revelation 17:12).

John declared that the world leader will cause all people to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads in order to buy or sell (Revelation 13:16). Contrary to the idea that Christianity was established for social control, the Bible teaches that all who take this mark or who serve this world government will be damned (Revelation 19:20) but those who are beheaded for the witness of Jesus will reign with Him in His kingdom(Revelation 20:4).

This is not to say that the Bible has not been perverted and taken out of context by the political elite for social control as seen in the secret FEMA plan to use pastors as pacifiers in preparation for martial law (”Pastoral Crisis Intervention”). The debriefing tells pastors to help implement FEMA and Homeland Security directives. FEMA directors told pastors to preach specific passages to their congregations like Romans 13, the Bible passage often taken out of context by dictators like Hitler to hoodwink Christians into supporting him (Watson).

The lie that Christianity was created by the political establishment is among many false ideas being told today in contemporary films like the DaVinci Code and Zeitgeist.

In Part 1 of the film Zeitgeist, nearly 200 sources are cited in the transcript. Yet, many of these sources are used more than once. For example, Manly P. Hall is cited 5 times; Albert Churchwood is cited 6 times; Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy are cited 7 times; Edward Carpenter is cited 8 times; Thomas Doane cited 19 times; D.M. Murdock is cited twice. However D.M. Murdock also goes by the pen name Acharya S. Acharya S is cited an additional 27 times and Gerald Massey is cited 30 times.

In fact, when the transcript for this film is examined in further detail, we see that less than 25% of these sources are original.

The idea that Jesus is a copycat Solar Deity has been propagated by the self-taught Egyptologist and practicing druid Gerald Massey (wikipedia); homosexual activist and philosopher Edward Carpenter (wikipedia); atheist professor John Allegro; and authors Peter Gandy & Timothy Freke and Acharya S.

In 1970, John Allegro also wrote a book entitled The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross that suggests other ideas. Allegro proposes that the earliest Christians were actually a secret cult group that used hallucinogenic mushrooms and utilized the name “Jesus” as a code word to avoid letting outsiders know about their secret activities. Allegro was criticized immediately by almost every major historical scholar. The Times newspaper of London printed a letter signed by fifteen scholars in the Semitic languages who dismissed his conclusion stating that it was “not based on any philological or other evidence that they can regard as scholarly.” (Jeffrey, HEAJ). His book was denounced as “an essay in Fantasy rather than philology.” (”Jesus as Mushroom”)
Another source cited in the film was occultist and mystic H.P. Blavatsky and her book The Secret Doctrine. Blavatsky was the founder of the Theosophical Society, one of the most powerful occult organization in the world that has perhaps had more influence on the United Nations than any other religious society.

The Nazi movement was founded on Theosophy and her writing. Blavatsky’s book The Secret Doctrine, which was cited in the film Zeitgeist, was known to be an inspiration to Adolf Hitler, specifically towards his ideas about superior and inferior races. (Spielvogel; wikipedia). In The Secret Doctrine she wrote,
“In antiquity and reality, Lucifer or Luciferus, is the name of the angelic Entity presiding over the light of truth as over the light of the day. Lucifer is divine and terrestrial light, the “Holy Ghost” and “Satan” at one and the same time.(512, 513)”

She also wrote, “And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon, the “Lord of Phosphorus” . . . and Lucifer or “Light Bearer,” is in us . . . it is our mind . . . [our] Redeemer, our intelligent liberator and Saviour from pure animalism. (513)”

Gerald Massey, cited 30 times, wrote for the Theosophical magazine entitled Lucifer published by H.P. Blavatsky.

Also cited: Godfrey Higgins, Albert Churchwood, and Manly P. Hall were all members of the Freemasons’ secret society. Manly P. Hall, a 33rd degree Mason, wrote on page 48 of his book Lost Keys of Freemasonry:
“When a Mason learns that the key is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, the seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands.” (Hall, 48).

Edward Carptenter writes on pages 17 and 18 of Pagan and Christian Creeds that virgin Mary is just a character based on the constellation Virgo known as the Virgin or the House of Bread.

However, former astrologer and author of Spellbound: The Paranormal Seduction of Today’s Kids, Marcia Montenegro wrote, “You can’t just make a story out of names like Virgo, Leo, Taurus, etc. And why doesn’t the story begin with Aries? If it did, then Leo comes before Virgo, yet Leo is supposedly Jesus, the Lion of Judah. It seems it would come after Virgo, not before, in a story.” (”Zeitgeist” Online Movie: Part One Refuted).

Bethlehem indeed means “house of bread.” Nevertheless, there is no basis for concluding that Bethlehem was a fictitious place which was fabricated based upon the constellation Virgo.

The existence of Bethlehem is attested by Biblical and extra-biblical sources. First, the Old Testament authors prior to the first century mention Bethlehem (Ruth 1:1; 1 Samuel 16:4; Micah 5:2).
The Jewish historian Falvius Josephus mentions Bethlehem as the location where King David was anointed to be future king of Israel. Josephus recorded, “And when Samuel mourned for him [King Saul], God bid him leave off his concern for him, and to take the holy oil, and go to Bethlehem, to Jesse the son of Obed, and to anoint such of his sons as he should show him for their future king.” (Antiquities 8.1)
J.B. Hennessy reports of the archaeological evidence demonstrating that Bethlehem was inhabited during the Iron Age and in the first century.

He recorded, “Perhaps most important has been the isolation, in 1969, of the Iron Age tell. The limits of the Iron Age occupation, while not entirely clear, appear to be on the flat surface and the slopes immediately beneath the basilica and to the E. The work was carried out by the Israel Archaeological Society. Bethlehem appears to have been a major area of occupation from the Paleolithic period.” (Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible).

Alleging that Jesus is just a symbolic representation of the sun, a solar deity, and that His 12 disciples were representations of the zodiac, author and skeptic Acharya S states that, “The sun’s ‘followers’ or ‘disciples’ are the 12 signs of the zodiac, through which the sun must pass.” (Acharya S., 166-183).

How exactly did Jesus “pass through” His disciples? How do the zodiac signs “follow” the sun? They don’t.

In Exodus chapter 32, we read that Aaron and the Israelites made an idol of a golden calf and worshiped it. Moses then came down from the Mount with the Ten Commandments on two tablets and shattered the tablets after seeing the Israelites’ idolatry. Moses then took the calf and burnt it in the fire.

The Christ conspirators will suggest that the golden calf is Taurus the bull and Moses represents the new age of Aires the Ram (Acharya S., 146). They say that Moses represents the ram and this is why Jews blow the ram’s horn today. Yet, Moses is never recorded blowing any ram’s horn and Moses cannot be identified as a ram by any interpretation within or without Scripture.

Yet another attempt to throw astrological allegories upon biblical reality are the claims that Jesus ushers in the age of Aquarius. In Luke chapter 22, verse 10, Jesus tells His disciples to enter into the city where they will meet a man bearing a pitcher of water. Acharya S claims this is symbolic of Jesus, or the supposed solar personification of Pisces, ushering in the age of Aquarius, or the Water-bearer (Acharya S., 146-147). She also claims Jesus was “baptized in Aquarius, the Water-bearer,” hinting that Jesus will bring in the age of Aquarius (Acharya S., 161). The Age of Aquarius begins around A.D. 2150.

Acharya S then claims that “Jesus became the Good Shepherd and the Lamb in Aries, the Ram.” (Acharya S, 161). Aries is from about 2150 B.C. to A.D. 1 and has nothing to do with Jesus. Additionally, a lamb does not resemble a ram, and neither a ram nor a lamb is a shepherd.
She goes on to state that, “Jesus told the parables of the sowing and tilling in the fields in Taurus, the Bull.” (Acharya, 161). For anybody who studies the Scriptures, it’s easy to see why this argument is a fallacy. Jesus told parables in several agricultural metaphors including fig trees, wheat and tares, sheep and goats, seeds, and many others. But where is the sign for these parables?

Critics also claim that because Jesus’ disciples James and John were fishermen, they symbolize two fish, which also happens to be the symbol for the age of Pisces in which Jesus was born (Acharya S, 146).

Are we seeing a pattern? To these critics like Acharya S, any mention of bulls is automatically accredited to the age of Taurus, any mention of fish to the age of Pisces, and any mention of water to the age of Aquarius, even though these analogous claims make little to no sense.
The Christian fish symbol that we see on the back of cars was an early symbol for Christ and has nothing to do with the age of Pisces. The Greek word based on the initials of “Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior” spelled “fish” in Greek.

Indeed, two disciples were fishermen. But Matthew was a tax collector, Simon was a zealot, Luke was a physician and historian, Paul was a Pharisee and a tent maker. What is their significance to astrology?
Indeed, Jesus fed 5,000 people with two fishes and five loaves of bread (Matthew 14:14-21; Mark 6:30-44; Luke 9:10-17; John 6:1-14). Later, He fed 4,000 people with a few fish, or more than two fish, and seven loaves of bread (Matthew 15:32-39; Mark 8:1-9). So what? He also healed people, gave sight to the blind, raised the dead, walked on water, and cast demons out of people but there is no astrological symbols accompanying these miracles.

Besides, fish and fishermen are also mentioned in the Old Testament which pre-dated Jesus and was prior to the age of Piesces (Genesis 9:2; 1 Kings 4:33; Job 12:8; Ecclesiastes 9:12; Ezekiel 38:20; Hosea 4:3; Habakkuk 1:14; Zephaniah 1:3; Isaiah 19:8; Jeremiah 16:16; Ezekiel 47:10).

Furthermore, the New Testament, written after the age of Taurus the Bull, also mentions calves (Luke 15:23; 15:27; 15:30; Acts 7:41; Revelation 4:7). Obviously, Bible stories abound with fish because fish were the most common source of protein near the Sea of Galilee. New Testament stories also refer to a rooster, doves, donkeys, birds, camels, sheep and goats yet none of these animals would normally fall under the age of Pisces.

What did Jesus mean in Matthew 28:20 when He said, “I am with you always even unto the end of the world.”

The word “world” in the King James Bible is translated to “aeon” in the Greek or “age.” This word means forever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time or eternity (Blue Letter Bible). Jesus was not referring to any astrological age like Aquarius or Pisces, He was referring to the end of the world or the end of the perpetuity of time as we know it.

The Greek word aeon was used again by Jesus in reference to the end of the world in Matthew 13:39 when He said, “the harvest is the end of the world (or aeon) and the reapers are the angels.” In Luke 1:70, Jesus refers to God’s holy prophets which have been since the world (or aeon) began. God’s prophets such as Moses did not live in the astrological age of Pisces as Jesus, yet Jesus includes them in this passage. It is obvious Jesus is not referring to an astrological age.

Paul stated in Romans 12:2, “Do not be conformed to this world (or aeon); but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Again, he is referring to this world or perpetuity of time since the world began until it ends. And in 1 John 2:17, John wrote, “the world (or aeon) passes away, and the lust thereof; but he that does the will of God abides forever.”
It is absurd to assume that either the writers of the Old Testament or the New Testament based their writings on astrology. In fact, God specifically condemned astrology through His prophet Isaiah:
“You are wearied with your many counsels; let now the astrologers, those who prophesy by the stars, those who predict by the new moons, stand up and save you from what will come upon you. Behold, they have become like stubble, fire burns them; they cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame.” (Isaiah 47:13-14).

God also specifically condemned worship of the sun and moon through His prophet Moses. (Deuteronomy 17:3)

To back up the claim that Jesus is an astrological hybrid, the narrator of the film Zeitgeist mentions an inscription on the walls of the Temple of Luxor in Egypt dating back 3,500 years. This is taken directly out of the pages of The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S. She wrote,
“Inscribed about 3,500 years ago on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus; with Kneph, the “Holy Ghost,” impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings.”
Richard C. Carrier responded, “Since I am an atheist . . . and since I have formal experience in ancient history (B.A., M.A., and M. Phil.), the following should hold some authority with skeptics.”

He continued, “The Luxor inscription does not depict impregnation by a spirit, but involves very real sex . . . and the woman involved is the mythical Queen of Egypt in a archetypal sense, not Isis per se. . . “
“Several things are very clear from the written narrative,” Carrier stated, “. . . the adoration scene only involves important state officials . . . not kings or magi. . . Understanding their background and cultural and historical context is helpful, and necessary, but it doesn’t lead to any plagiaristic scandal of the sort Acharya S wants there to be” (Carrier).
The claim that Christianity borrowed the idea of the “three kings” from ancient religions is also poorly researched just as the same misinformed idea that appears on Christmas cards. This is not found anywhere in the Bible.

In the book The Christ Conspiracy, Acharya S wrote that the birth sequence of Jesus is astrological citing that Sirius, the brightest star in the east, aligns with the three brightest stars or “three kings” in Orion’s belt on December 24th.

The Bible simply states in Matthew 2:1: “[1] Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,” (Matthew 2:1).

The wise men or the “magi” were not kings. And nowhere does it say in the Scriptures that the wise men were three in number, this is purely legend and not a biblical claim.

Claims and criticisms of Christianity having borrowed beliefs from ancient pagan religions are based upon sources dated much later than the New Testament. We can find these claims in recent books by authors such as Acharya S, Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy.

The apostle Paul would have never borrowed from pagan religions. Paul warned the Colossian Church against this very sort of influence. He said,
“[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” (Colossians 2:8).

Each Mediterranean region produced its own mystery religion. Out of Greece came the cults of Demeter and Dionysus. Asia Minor gave birth to the cult of Cybele, the Great Mother, and her beloved, Attis. The cult of Isis and Osiris originated in Egypt. Mithraism or the cult of Mithra came out of Persia. (Nash, WNTIBPR).

This is Horus. Of all the pagan copycat candidates, Horus seems to be the greatest threat. After all, Egypt is not far from Palestine, and the Jews did live in Egypt. The claims are that Horus was born on December 25th of the virgin Isis-Meri; his birth was announced by a star in the east which three kings followed; he was a child teacher at age 12; he was baptized; he had twelve disciples; he performed miracles and was known as The Truth, The Light, God’s anointed son, The Good Shepherd, The lamb of God and others; after being betrayed, Horus was crucified, buried for 3 days and resurrected. These are the claims.

First of all, there are no original citations from Egyptian records pre-dating the New Testament to support these ideas listed in books by authors including Albert Churchwood, Acharya S, Gerald Massey, and Thomas Doane. Secondly, this is a far too simplistic representation of the myths surrounding Horus. In reality, there are many versions. There were originally several different gods known by the name Horus (Miller).
If Horus is said to be a falcon whose eyes are the sun and the moon and whose breath is the cooling north wind, we would think this was an image to represent the god of the sky. But the god was depicted as a bird from the earliest times manifested in different birds and species (Frankfort).

A later period portrayal of Horus was a human child suckling at the breast of his mother Isis. Horus was successful in avenging the death of his father and becoming his successor. Osiris then became king of the dead and Horus king of the living; this transfer was renewed at every change of earthly rule. The myth of divine kingship elevated the position of the god as much as it did that of the king. In the fourth dynasty, the king, the living god, may have been one of the greatest gods as well, but by the fifth dynasty the supremacy of the cult of Re, the sun god, was accepted even by the kings. The Horus-king was now also “son of Re.” (Miller).

Does this sound like Jesus? Again, there are no primary Egyptian records prior to the New Testament to support the resemblances of Jesus and Horus. The myths of pagan gods have changed throughout history, but God has always been the same.

The Most High spoke through His Old Testament prophet Malachi and said, “I am the LORD, I change not.” (Malachi 3:6). The New Testament book of Hebrews states, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” (Hebrews 13:8).

This is Attis. Cybele, also known as the Great Mother or the goddess of nature, was worshiped through much of the Hellenistic world. According to the myth, Cybele loved Attis. Because of unfaithfulness and overcome by madness, Attis died. This drove Cybele into mourning and introduced death into the natural world. Then Cybele restored Attis to life. Many critics refer to this as the “resurrection of Attis.”

Apologetics author Charlie Campbell states, “The alleged resurrection of Attis isn’t even mentioned until after 150 A.D., long after the time of Jesus.” (”Zeitgeist: Analysis and Response”)

Supposedly, the Olympian gods cut off the male organ and cast it off. There grew up from it an almond tree. Nana picked the fruit off this almond tree and laid it in her bosom. It disappeared and she became pregnant. After Attis was tended by a he-goat, Attis fell in love and was not crucified but castrated himself. Attis was not placed in a tomb and resurrected but he was reborn as the evergreen pine (”Attis.”).
This is Krishna, claimed to be born of a virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with disciples and resurrected after death.

Again, where are the pre-Christian original sources that state these claims? For the sake of comparison, in Joseph Campbell’s book Occidental Mythology, page 342, he stated, “In India a like tale is told of the beloved savior Krishna, whose terrible uncle, Kansa, was, in that case, the tyrant-king. The savior’s mother, Devaki, was of royal lineage, the tyrant’s niece, and at the time when she was married the wicked monarch heard a voice, mysteriously, which let him know that her eighth child would be his slayer. He therefore confined both her and her husband. . . in a closely guarded prison, where he murdered their first six infants as they came.”

According to this story, the mother Devaki had seven children before Krishna was born. This would not make Devaki a virgin (Miller).
In the film Zeitgeist, author Edward Carpenter is cited. Edward Carpenter, in his book Pagan and Christian Creeds, stated, “To go into the parallelism of the careers of Krishna, the Indian Sungod, and Jesus would take too long; because indeed the correspondence is so extraordinarily elaborate.” (Carpenter, 51). He then cites Robertson’s Christianity and Mythology as a reference.

Then Robertson transcribes the outline of the well-known Krishna saga as follows: “The son of . . . Devaki. . . The two brothers grew up in the midst of the shepherds, slaying monsters . . . Arrived at adolescence, the two brothers put to death Kamsa . . . and Krishna became king. . . He continued to clear the land of monsters. . . After having been present at the death of his brother . . . he himself perished, wounded in the heel . . . by the arrow of a hunter.” (Robertson, 141).

Thus, we read in the well-known Krishna saga that there is no virgin birth, no star in the east signaling his coming, no miracles or disciples and no resurrection from the dead. The comparisons are not so “extraordinarily elaborate” after all.

Robertson also stated, “the case in favour of the assumption of Christian priority has been in a general way strengthened by the precise investigation of Hindu literature, which has gone to show that much of it, as it stands, is of far later redaction than had once been supposed.” (135).

This is Dionysus depicted as a crucified figure. Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy feature a picture of this amulet on the cover of their book The Jesus Mysteries. However, this amulet dates centuries after the first century A.D.

Concerning Dionysus turning water into wine, one historical and theological study explained, “the ancient literature . . . says that there was a spring . . . with clear, sparkling, wine-colored, very pleasant-tasting water in which the newly born Dionysus was bathed. Also . . . a spring in the temple . . . flowed with wine. . . [A]t Elis the priests of Dionysus placed three large empty cauldrons in a sealed room to find them filled with wine when they returned the next day. . . However, from these references it is obvious that there are significant differences between the Dionysus legend and the story in John 2: the spring . . . flowed with water, and the one at Andros flowed with wine, not wine that had once been water; and the empty cauldrons in the Elis temple were filled with wine rather than water subsequently changed into wine, key elements in John’s story. These differences have convinced most scholars that John or his tradition is not dependent on the Dionysus legend for this story” (Twelftree).

The available accounts of Dionysus’ birth indicate that Dionysus was not born of a virgin. Again, there are multiple versions of this myth. In the best known myth, however, Dionysus was born through an affair between Zeus and a princess (Powell). In another version Zeus mated with his daughter Persephone and she bore Dionysus (Morford). In the first version Dionysus was saved as a fetus in the underworld and in the second his heart was saved; both the heart and the fetus were brought to Zeus and Dionysus was born a second time by Zeus making him the twice-born god. Thus, Dionysus was neither resurrected nor born of a virgin.

This is Mithra who was born when he emerged from a cave, not a virgin birth like Jesus (Nash). In his book Image and Value in the Greco-Roman World, Richard Gordon writes that there is “no death of Mithras,” and thus there is no resurrection of Mithra.

Even the Encyclopedia Britanica concedes that Mithraism could not have influenced the Gospel writers. It states, “There is little notice of the Persian god [Mithra] in the Roman world until the beginning of the 2nd century, but, from the year A.D. 136 onward, there are hundreds of dedicatory inscriptions to Mithra. This renewal of interest is not easily explained. The most plausible hypothesis seems to be that Roman Mithraism was practically a new creation, wrought by a religious genius who may have lived as late as c. A.D. 100 and who gave the old traditional Persian ceremonies a new Platonic interpretation that enabled Mithraism to become acceptable to the Roman world” (Article entry: Mithraism 2004 edition).

The four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written well before the close of the first century. If Mithraism wasn’t even known in the Roman world in the first century, as the Encyclopedia Britannica stated, then it is misguided to suggest that teachings regarding Mithra influenced the New Testament writers.

As for resurrections, academic scholars of religion acknowledge that there is no evidence for the belief that any of these mythical deities were believed to have risen from the dead prior to the time of New Testament and Jesus.

Dr. Walter Burkert, a Greek religion scholar and author stated, “There is no evidence for a resurrected Attis, even Osiris remains with the dead (Burkert).”

Any allegations of 16 other saviors who all resemble the same characteristics of Jesus is most likely based on the book entitled The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors by Kersey Graves. This book is an unreliable source.

Even atheist Richard Carrier criticized, “The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors is unreliable, but no comprehensive critique exists. Most scholars immediately recognize many of his findings as unsupported and dismiss Graves as useless. After all, a scholar who rarely cites a source isn’t useful to have as a reference even if he is right” (Carrier).

Dr. Norman Geisler wrote, “The only known account of a god surviving death that predates Christianity is the Egyptian cult god Osiris. In this myth, Osiris is cut into fourteen pieces, scattered around Egypt, then reassembled and brought back to life by the goddess Isis. However, Osiris does not actually come back to physical life but becomes a member of a shadowy underworld. . . This is far different than Jesus’ resurrection account where he was the gloriously risen Prince of life who was seen by others on earth before his ascension into heaven. . . even if there are myths about dying and rising gods prior to Christianity, that doesn’t mean the New Testament writers copied from them.” (Geisler).

Even atheists and non-Christian scholars have rejected this idea that Christianity has been borrowed from ancient myths. The well respected Sir Edward Evans Pritchard wrote, “The evidence for this theory. . . is negligible.” (Ankerberg, Weldon).

In sum, skeptic claims of Christianity being borrowed from ancient Egypt, India, Greece, and Persia can be disregarded as false because there are no primary sources for these parallels pre-dating A.D. 150. This is more than 100 years after the origin of Christianity!

Before A.D. 100, all of the mystery religions were still mostly confined to localities but after A.D. 100, they gradually began to attain popularity throughout the Roman Empire. Many writers use the late source material produced in this period (after A.D. 150) to form reconstructions of what they think the cults must have been earlier to their spread in the Roman Empire (Nash, WNTIBPR).

So if there was any influence of one on the other, it was the influence of the historical events of the New Testament on mythology, not the reverse. Besides, the pagan-myth copycat theories can’t explain the empty tomb, the martyrdom of eyewitnesses, or the testimony of non-Christian writings concerning the resurrection of Jesus Christ (Geisler).
Peter wrote: “[16] For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” (2 Peter 1:16).
Critics note that the sacred day of worship of the pagan god Mithra was Sunday as if Christianity had stolen this Sunday worship.
However, Jews and Jesus celebrated the Sabbath on Saturday, the seventh day of the week, just as God spoke through Moses:
“[8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
[9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[10] But the seventh day [Saturday] is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:” (Exodus 20:8-10).
The early Christians worshiped Jesus daily, not just on Saturday or Sunday.
“And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.” (Acts 2:46-47).

In the early fourth century, it was Constantine who made Sunday a rest day. His Sunday law of March 7, A.D. 321 read, “On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.” (Codex Justinianus).

What about the date of December 25th? Did the New Testament writers steal the birthday of Jesus from the myths of pagan Gods?

Coincidentally, the date chosen for Christ’s birth is on the same day of all these pagan gods. Author Acharya S suggests in her book The Christ Conspiracy that “the sun ‘dies’ for three days at the winter solstice, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th.” (Acharya S., 154-155)
The commonly accepted story is that Jesus was born on December 25th, not that He died, was born again or resurrected as Acharya S parallels.
But nowhere in the Holy Bible do we find any reference to the birth of Jesus being on December 25th. This date of December 25th was chosen later in A.D. 354 by Roman Bishop Liberius based on pagan thought and the Roman tradition of Saturnalia rather than on biblical truth (McCollister).

The Christmas tree also has its roots in pagan tree worship. Babylonian myths told of an evergreen tree which sprang out of a dead tree stump. The old stump symbolized the dead Nimrod, and the new tree symbolized that Nimrod had come back to life again in Tammuz. In Rome, the sacred fir tree was decorated with red berries. Christmas and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus of Nazareth.

In fact, God condemns the pagan practices of Christmas through his prophet Jeremiah: “[2] Thus says the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
[3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
[4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.” (Jeremiah 10:2-4).
Sadly, many professing Christians to this day observe this pagan holiday and heathen practices in celebration of the birth of Christ. The day was picked to coincide with the pagan sun-god worship observance of the Winter Solstice (Sheifler). December 25th has absolutely nothing to do with the real Jesus.

So when was Jesus really born? Most scholars agree that Jesus was born around 4 B.C. and was crucified in A.D. 31.

We read in the Gospel of Luke: “[7] And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
[8] And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.”
Obviously Jesus was not born in December or any time in the winter, for that matter, because there were shepherds watching over their flocks at night. Jesus was, therefore, most likely born in late spring or early autumn.

The early Christian holiday “pascha” or Passover (the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus) has been invaded with pagan customs in celebration of the Spring Equinox.

The common view of professing Christians that Jesus was crucified on Good Friday and resurrected on Sunday is not biblical or logical considering Jesus said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights, not two days and two nights as some would like to believe.
Customs such as colored eggs symbolize the Babylonian fertility goddess. The Encyclopedia Britannica also noted that, “The rabbit is a pagan symbol and always has been an emblem of fertility.” (Woodrow).
One of the most important symbols for Catholics, Protestants, and professing Christians is the cross. True Christians, however, do not trust in an old rugged cross. Their faith is in what was accomplished on the cross. The apostle Paul wrote, “[17] For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
[18] For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that perish; but to us which are saved it is the power of God.” (1 Corinthians 1:17,18).

It was not until Christianity became paganized that the cross image came to be thought of as a Christian symbol. Crosses in churches were introduced in A.D. 431 and the uses of crosses in steeples came about in A.D. 586. (Woodrow).

Again, the importance is not the way Jesus died but who died and why He died. He was the Son of God who died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). The cross has served it’s purpose but Jesus rose from the dead!
The 12 tablets of the Epic of Gilgamesh tells about a great flood similar to the biblical account in Genesis. The many similarities point to a common source, but there are also significant differences. It seems logical that the Genesis account was the original and the pagan myth arose as distortions of that account; or other cultures have preserved the fact that there was indeed a great flood as the Bible says.

While Moses lived long after the flood and wrote Genesis around 1450-1410 B.C.(Scofield), he was acting as the editor of much older sources (Sarfati). God gave Noah specific instructions mentioning real historical landmarks in Genesis 10:19: “[19] And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comes to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goes, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.” (Genesis 10:19).

Many cultures throughout history have repeated the concept of a great flood. In the Genesis account, God gives Noah specific dimensions for the building of the Ark: “[15] And this is the fashion which thou shall make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.” (Genesis 6:15).

According to David Collins, a naval architect, not even a 210-knot wind (three times hurricane force) could overcome this structure which God commanded Noah to build (Sarfati; Collins). Contrast this to the boat in the Epic of Gilgamesh which was a huge cube. The Epic of Gilgamesh reads: “Ten dozen cubits the height of each of her walls,
Ten dozen cubits each edge of the square deck.
I laid out the shape of her sides and joined her together.
I provided her with six decks,
Dividing her (thus) into seven parts” (The Epic of Gilgamesh).
It’s difficult to imagine of a more ridiculous design for a ship. When examined with greater scrutiny, the worldwide flood legends such as the Epic of Gilgamesh do not compare to the historical Genesis account.
Far from disproving the biblical account of the flood, the parallels between the Epic of Gilgamesh and the flood account in Genesis, along with many other flood stories throughout history, lend credibility to the fact that a massive flood occurred just as the Bible describes.
The charge that Moses’ birth was lifted from the myth of Sargon of Akkad has also been discredited. As stated earlier, the time of Moses and his five books including the book of Exodus have been dated around 1400 B.C.

J.P. Holding of Tektonics Ministries wrote:
“The Sargon story “lacks any obvious grammatical, lexicographical, or philological feature that would allow a precise dating.” . . . The initial date range is anywhere between 2039 and 627 B.C.

[Brian] Lewis [author of The Sargon Legend] offers the suggestion that the story was written in the reign of Sargon II, a much later king who was possibly a usurper, to legitimate his own rule.

Lewis concludes that it is likeliest that Sargon and Moses are both drawing on a common archetype and that both stories are fictional. . . Of course we disagree that the use of a motif necessitates fiction. . .
“Lewis acknowledges that adoption of foundlings was a regulated practice, which suggests that there were enough of them around for the stories to have a strong root in reality, and for a motif to develop as a result; but this no more renders any given story fictional. . .
“[Brian] Lewis even concedes (in the case of Sargon!) that the motif reflects an expression of social practice. In any event, we conclude that there is no satisfactory reason to propose borrowing or fictionalization, in either direction.” (Holding)

Acharya S noted the similarities between Moses, the Hebrew lawgiver, Manou, the Indian legislator, Minos, the Cretan reformer, and Mises who also had tablets of stone upon which laws were written (Acharya S., 241). Allegations that Moses was just another fictional character cannot be supported by credible sources just as other accusations revealed earlier.

Acharya’s source is Deceptions and Myths of the Bible by Lloyd Graham published in 1991. This book is also a terrible reference which has no original source material.

It has been said that the 10 Commandments have been taken directly from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

All this proves is that the law of God is written on the souls of people. Throughout history, ancient civilizations have defined right and wrong, good and evil, some have been very close to God’s holy standard of truth while others have been morally destitute and perverse. As the apostle Paul wrote, “[14] For when the Gentiles, which do not have the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves:
[15] Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.” (Romasn 2:14-15).
In other words, we all have knowledge of God’s universal and moral law. All humans have a common concept of what is morally right and morally wrong such as murder, stealing, lying, and committing adultery.

Justin Martyr, a second century Christian defender, wrote, “When we say that Jesus Christ was produced without sexual union, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended to heaven, we propound nothing new or different from what you believe regarding those whom you call the sons of Jupiter.” (Martyr).

He also wrote, “And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus.” (Martyr).

Justin Martyr was raised in a pagan home and was familiar with Greek philosophy (Komoszewski, 229). All these passages suggest that Justin Martyr is simply attempting to convince skeptical pagan audiences by parallels that would be familiar and communicable to them. He was also attempting to convince the Roman emperor that Christian teachings and claims were not that different from other religions that enjoyed Rome’s protection while Christians were being persecuted and killed for their beliefs.

J. Gresham Machen, a New Testament Professor at Princeton Theological Seminary, stated, “When Justin [Martyr] . . . refers to the birth of Perseus as a birth from (or through) a virgin, he is going beyond what the pagan sources contained. There seems to be no clear evidence that pagan sources used the word ‘virgin’ as referring to mothers of heroes, mythical or historical, who were represented as being begotten by the gods.” (Machen).

Justin Martyr also wrote, “From what has been already said, you can understand how the devils, in imitation of what was said by Moses, asserted that Proserpine was the daughter of Jupiter, and instigated the people to set up an image of her under the name of Kore [Cora, i.e., the maiden or daughter] at the spring-heads. For, as we wrote above, Moses said, “In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form and unfurnished: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” In imitation, therefore, of what is here said of the Spirit of God moving on the waters, they said that Proserpine [or Coral] was the daughter of Jupiter. And in like manner also they craftily feigned that Minerva was the daughter of Jupiter, not by sexual union, but, knowing that God conceived and made the world by the Word, they say that Minerva is the first conception; which we consider to be very absurd, bringing forward the form of the conception in a female shape. And in like manner the actions of those others who are called sons of Jupiter sufficiently condemn them.”

Justin did not argue that demons or the devil copied Christian beliefs beforehand but, rather, they copied the older Jewish beliefs.
The simple fact that there are parallels between Jesus and other figures including people in the Bible like Joseph, does not make either of them fictional.

The documentation for a historical Jesus is actually much more compelling than the documentation for other ancient figures like Confucius and Buddha.

If liberal scholars applied the same arbitrary standard of rejection of historical evidence to other ancient historical personages besides Jesus, such as Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great, they would be forced to reject all history as myth.

42 authors mention Jesus within 150 years of His life:
Nine traditional authors of the New Testament,
(Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Author of Hebrews, James, Peter, Jude)
20 early Christian writers outside the New Testament,
(Clement of Rome, 2 Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, Martyrdom of Polycarp, Didache, Barnabas, Shepherd of Hermas, Fragments of Papias, Justin Martyr, Aristides, Athenagoras, Theophilus of Antioch Quadratus, Aristo of Pella, Melito of Sardis, Diognetus, Gospel of Peter, Apocalypse of Peter, Epistula Apostolorum)
four heretical writings,
(Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Truth, Apocryphon of John, Treatise on Resurrection)
and nine secular or non-Christian sources.
(Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Phlegon, Lucian, Celsus, Mara Bar-Serapion, Seutonius, Thallus)

On the contrary, only ten authors mention Tiberius Caesar, the Roman emperor during Jesus’ ministry within 150 years of his life. The ratio is 42:10, yet we do not doubt the existence of the emperor Tiberius Caesar (Habermas, CRJ, 233).

Such historical documents confirm that Jesus was executed as a criminal under the authority of Pontius Pilate, who ruled Judea under the reign of Emperor Tiberius. History provides proof that the Christians who began in Judea spread through the Roman empire and suffered great persecution for their faith, and that these Christians derived their worship and religion from the person known as Christ or “the Messiah.”
Tacitus was governor of Asia in A.D. 112 and was known as the “greatest historian of ancient Rome” (Habermas, VHCELJ, 87). In his Annals of Imperial Rome, Tacitus wrote about Emperor Nero’s persecution of the Christians. He says: “To suppress therefore the common rumour, Nero procured others to be accused, and inflicted exquisite punishments upon those people, who were in abhorrence for their crimes, and were commonly known as Christians. They had their denomination from Christus [Christ], who in the reign of Tiberius was put to death as a criminal by the procurator Pontius Pilate. This pernicious superstition, though checked for a while, broke out again, and spread, not only over Judea, the source of this evil, but reached the city [Rome] also.” (Annals of Imperial Rome, XV 44).

Lucian of Samosata, a Greek writer of the latter half of the second century spoke scornfully of Christians and Jesus, never assuming or arguing that Jesus was unreal. Lucian said: “You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they were converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.” (The Death of Peregrine, 11-13).
Suetonius was the official historian during the reign of both Emperor Trajan and Adrian. Speaking of the Emperor Claudius who ruled from A.D. 41 to 54, he wrote: “He banished the Jews from Rome, who were continually making disturbances, Chrestus being their leader.” (Life of Claudius 25.4).

The name Chrestus is another spelling for the name Christ or Christus. This statement confirms the passage in the book of Acts chapter 18, verse 2 about the exiling of Jews from Rome during the reign of Claudius.

Suetonius also recounts that: “punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new mischievous superstition.” (Life of the Caesars, 26.2).

Seutonius confirms that Christians were suffering and dying for their conviction that Jesus had really lived, died, and risen from the dead, a “mischievous superstition.”

Pliny the Younger was governor of the Roman provinces of Pontus and Bithynia in A.D. 101 to 110. In a letter to the emperor, Pliny the Younger requested specific instructions about the interrogations of Christians whom he was persecuting. He said he “made them curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced to do.” He continued, “They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up.” (Epistles X.96).

Dated around A.D. 52, Thallus was one of the first secular writers who mentions Christ. Julius Africanus is one writer who quotes of his historical writing saying: “Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun - unreasonably, as it seems to me unreasonably, of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died” (Chronography, 18.1).

This reference of the Gospel account confirms that darkness fell upon the land during the crucifixion of Jesus and that this event was well known and required a naturalistic explanation from the non-Christians such as Thallus.

Another remarkable reference to this supernatural darkness is found in the manuscript of another pagan historical writer named Phlegon from Lydia. In approximately A.D. 138 he noted:
“During the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon.” (Africanus, Chronography, 18.1).

Phlegon’s reference to this event is also mentioned by the third-century Christian apologist Origen (Contra Celsum 2.14, 33, 59) and the sixth-century writer Philopon (McDowell/Wilson, HWAU, 36).

A Syrian stoic philosopher named Mara Bar-Serapion wrote a letter from prison to his son sometime after A.D. 70. In the letter, he compares Jesus to the philosophers Socrates and Pythagoras. He wrote: “What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given.” (Bruce, NTDATR, 114).

This letter refers to the Gospel statement that was placed above the cross of Jesus. The writer also mentioned that the Jews suffered judgments of God after executing their King which most likely is a reference to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by Rome in A.D. 70.

Gnosticism flourished from the second to the fourth centuries A.D. Although these Gnostics were influenced by the New Testament, their teachings were pronounced heretical and viewed as such by the church. However, several Gnostic Gospels testify of Jesus Christ.

One of these heretical teachers Valentinus asserts that the Son of God came in the flesh in his Gospel of Truth: “For when they had seen him and had heard him, he granted them to taste him and to smell him and to touch the beloved Son. When he had appeared instructing them about the Father . . . . For he came by means of fleshly appearance.” (Habermas, ANCSLC).

Another is the Gospel of Thomas which is usually dated from around A.D. 140-200. In this Gnostic Gospel, Jesus said, “It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the All. From Me did the All come forth, and unto Me did the All extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there.” (Habermas, ANCSLC).

Although biblical Christianity does not endorse pantheism, this heretical Gospel of Thomas confirmed that Jesus identified Himself as the Son of God.

When the King James Bible was published in 1611, the oldest Old Testament manuscript used by King James translators was dated approximately A.D. 1100. Obviously, that old manuscript was a copy of a copy of a copy.

Nevertheless, in 1947, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Qumran Caves near the Dead Sea yielded over a thousand priceless manuscripts dating before A.D. 68. Every complete book of the Old Testament was discovered except for the book of Esther. These manuscripts were virtually identical to the A.D. 1100 translation that was used for the King James Bible (Jeffrey, 116-120). For example, the scroll of the prophet Isaiah has been carbon dated to a range of between 335 B.C. and A.D. 107 and was virtually identical to the King James translations, aside from a tiny number of spelling translations.. (”Dead Sea Scrolls”, Jeffrey, 125)

Along with these Old Testament manuscripts were scrolls that contained references to the New Testament and Jesus of Nazareth. One scroll discovered in Cave Four refers to the Messiah as “the son of God” and the “son of the Most High.” (Dead Sea Scrolls). Dated much later than the Old Testament scrolls, the New Testament fragments were dated between A.D. 50 to A.D. 100; this is consistent with the time of the writings of the Gospels. (Jeffrey, 123)

Aside from the Dead Sea Scrolls, there are also a number of Jewish references to the ministry of Jesus of Nazareth as well.

Flavius Josephus, the Jewish historian, is known for historical works such as Jewish Antiquities finished in A.D. 93 or 94. One passage reads:
“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him: for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day.” (Antiquities, XVIII, 33, italics added).

This passage has raised heated debate among scholars because Josephus, a non-Christian Jew, makes statements about Jesus that an orthodox Jew would not normally affirm. While some Christian additions may have been obviously foreign to the Testimonium, it still contains a great deal of historical truth that Josephus could have easily documented (McDowell, EFC, 178).

In fact, the vast majority of scholars do not dismiss the account as a forgery but believe that Josephus did mention Jesus in this passage, but later insertions were made by a Christian scribe; hence, the statements about Jesus that a non-Christian like Josephus wouldn’t have made. But the style of Josephus is authentic. The term “wise man” is typical for Josephus’ writings.

The accusation that this text is a forgery is an exaggeration. Origen even quoted Flavius Josephus in A.D. 245. He said, “Flavius Josephus, who wrote the “Antiquities of the Jews” in twenty books, when wishing to exhibit the cause why the people suffered so great misfortunes that even the temple was razed to the ground, said, that these things happened to them in accordance with the wrath of God in consequence of the things which they had dared to do against James the brother of Jesus who is called Christ. And the wonderful thing is, that, though he did not accept Jesus as Christ, he yet gave testimony that the righteousness of James was so great; and he says that the people thought that they had suffered these things because of James.” (Origen)

The Babylonian Talmud asserts that Jesus or “Yeshu” in Greek was indeed a rabbi with followers. It says: “Yeshu had five disciples - Mattai, Nakkai, Netzer, Buni, and Todah.” (b. Sanh. 107b).

While Mattai may be a reference to Matthew, the names of the others identified could be any of the hundreds of disciples that followed Jesus.
We read also read in the Talmud of the crucifixion of Jesus or “Yeshu” in Greek: “It has been taught: On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. . . But, not having found anything in his favor, they hanged him on the eve of Passover.” (Sanhedrin 43a; cf. t. Sanh. 10:11; y. Sanh. 7:12; Tg. Esther 7:9).

Another version of this text says, “Yeshu the Nazarene,” making the link to Jesus much stronger. The word “hanged” is another way of referring to the crucifixion (Luke 23:39; Galatians 3:13). The reference that the crucifixion occurred “on the eve of Passover” agrees with the account in John 19:14.

Obviously, Jesus was a real person. But who is Jesus? Was Jesus a liar? A lunatic? Or was Jesus Lord? This question may be answered by His resurrection.

As demonstrated ealier by several historical accounts: Jesus was crucified. This is for certain.

Lucian, the Greek Satirist wrote, “The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account.” (The Death of Peregrine, 11-13).

With our modern medical knowledge, and given the nature of a scourging and a Roman crucifixion, it is safe to say that survival is highly unlikely if not impossible.

Moreover, one of the Roman soldiers thrust a spear into the side of Jesus after He died. John, the disciple, described blood and water flowing from this wound. We also know from today’s medical knowledge that the water flowing from Jesus’ side was most likely due to the rupturing of the sac surrounding the heart called the pericardium (Habermas, 102). This would produce the water and blood just as John described in his Gospel centuries ago.

Thus, with the reliable historical accounts of eyewitnesses and other non-Christian accounts of the crucifixion, we know that Jesus undoubtedly died on the cross.

Additionally, the Gospels provide embarrassing testimonies of the disciples and the women in relation to Jesus’ resurrection. Their initial disbelief is documented in the Gospel accounts. The principle of embarrassment supports the authenticity; it would be highly unlikely that the disciples - or the early Christians who highly respected them - would invent scenarios, which, in hindsight, casts them in a negative way.

Their transformation is strongly documented - from men who abandoned and even denied Jesus at His arrest and execution to men who gave their lives and publicly proclaimed him risen from the dead.

Is it a possibility that the disciples lied or stole the body of Jesus? The disciples claimed to have seen the risen Jesus and this is why they believed in His resurrection. Shortly afterwards, their lives were radically transformed. Most importantly, they were willing to endure imprisonment, sufferings and even martyrdom for what they believed. We do know that the tomb of Jesus was empty as it is to this day. If the tomb was not empty, the Jewish leaders would not have been claiming that the body of Jesus was stolen. It would be impossible for Christianity to spread in Jerusalem unless the tomb was empty. It is highly unlikely that the body of Jesus was stolen.

First of all, the chief priests and Pharisees feared that the disciples would steal the body of Jesus because He claimed He would rise again. Pilate then, in response to the religious leaders’ request, sealed the tomb with a stone and had it guarded with Roman guards (Matthew 27:62-66).
Secondly, an empty tomb would not have convinced the disciples of Jesus’ resurrection. It was the appearance of Jesus that led them to believe.

Early Christians often suffered great persecution and paid with their lives for their faith and testimony that Jesus had lived, died, and rose from the dead.

Matthew suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia being killed by a sword wound.
Mark died in Alexandria, Egypt after being dragged by horses through the streets to death.

Luke was hanged in Greece as a result of his preaching of the Gospel.
John faced martyrdom when he was boiled in a huge basin of oil and survived. John was then sentenced to prison on the island of Patmos.
Peter was crucified upside down.

James, the leader of the church in Jerusalem was thrown over one hundred feet down from the pinnacle of the Temple after he refused to deny his faith in Christ. He survived the fall and was then beaten to death.

James, the son of Zebedee, was beheaded at Jerusalem. He defended his faith at his trial and a Roman officer knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian as well.

Bartholomew, also known as Nathanael, was martyred for his preaching in Armenia when he was flayed to death with a whip.
Andrew was preaching the Gospel even as he was being crucified on an x-shaped cross in Greece.

The apostle Thomas was stabbed with a spear in India during a missionary trip.

Jude, the brother of Jesus was killed with arrows after he refused to deny his faith.

Matthias was stoned and then beheaded.

Barnabas was stoned to death at Salonica.

The apostle Paul was tortured and then beheaded by the Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. (Jeffrey).

And this is not to mention the countless number of Christians that have died for their faith in Jesus Christ throughout history.

The skeptics will reply that the martyrdom of these people proves nothing because many people die for their beliefs. Actually, it proves that the disciples weren’t intentionally lying. For example, we can look at the Islamic suicide bombers and terrorists that give their lives to kill many others. They really believe in their cause. Are they deceived? Yes. Are they liars? No.

Jesus disciples sincerely believed He rose from the dead!

At first, Jesus disciple Thomas was not convinced that Jesus had risen from the dead based on the testimony of the disciples. It was not until Jesus appeared to him that he believed (John 20:21-31).

Thomas said to the disciples, “Unless I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25). Eight days later the risen Lord Jesus appeared to Thomas and he believed. Jesus said, “Because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are those that have not seen, and yet have believed.” (John 20:29).

Likewise, James, the brother of Jesus had rejected Jesus before his resurrection. It was the appearance of the risen Jesus that changed the beliefs of James.

A mere myth or story would not have convinced Paul. Saul (later known as Paul) the zealous Jewish Pharisee, was one of the greatest persecutors of the Christian faith. Paul was consenting to the death of Stephen, the first Christian martyr. Later, Paul was convinced when the risen Jesus appeared to him.

What is the importance of the resurrection of Jesus the Messiah? It is the evidence that God provided to validate His teaching. It is the focal point of the disciples preaching. It confirms that Jesus Christ was not a liar, nor a lunatic but exactly who He claimed to be: the Son of God. Yet, there are still those today that deny Jesus ever existed. John warned us in his second epistle about those who deny that Jesus ever existed:
“Many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” (2 John 7).

The Scriptures also warn us about the false doctrine of the last days, especially that of the Roman Catholic Church that has embraced pagan sun worship: “[1] Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; [3] Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God has created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.” (1 Timothy 4:1-3).

As for the Crusades and Inquisition led by the Roman Catholic Church: these people neither loved Jesus nor did they obey His teachings. Jesus said, “[23] If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our abode with him.
[24] He that does not love Me does not keep my sayings: and the word which you hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.” (John 14:23-24).

Regardless of how later professing Christians behaved, Jesus Christ taught His followers to love their enemies (Matthew 5:44). God’s word teaches Christians to follow peace with all men (Hebrews 12:14). Contrary to those professing Christians of the Dark Ages, the Crusades and the Inquisition, Jesus taught His disciples that everyone who takes up the sword will perish with the sword (Matthew 26:52).

Unlike the Islamic Koran, the teachings of Jesus exclude violence, whereas the Koran allows violence. Peaceful Muslims live contrary to the teachings of Mohammed in the same way that violent Christians live contrary to the teachings of God.

Read the words of Jesus for yourself and you’ll see that those people who harm others in the name of religion, or for any other reason, are false prophets. Jesus also said: “[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16] You shall know them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:15,16).

The King James Bible is mentioned 27 times in the film Zeitgeist, almost always taken out of context or blatantly misinterpreted. Jesus, however, is very specific. He says: “He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad.” (Matthew 12:30).

You are in one of two kingdoms: the kingdom of God or the kingdom of Satan. It is black and white, good and evil, light and darkness. Jesus also said, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3).

Essentially, there are only two religions in the world. A religion of works and a religion of grace. Most of all religions besides biblical Christianity teach that a person may be justified by their works or what they do. In contrast the Bible teaches, “By grace you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest anyone should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8,9).

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12).
Our Lord and Savior Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).

By the making of this film, it is not our desire to prove to you God’s existence by facts and human reasoning. Only you as an individual may choose to seek God for yourself and His Spirit will bear witness with your spirit in an undeniable and powerful way. The proof is in Jesus and His Word, He said: “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” (John 7:17).

God is light (1 John 1:5). God is love (1 John 4:16). God is a spirit (John 4:24) ww.and God is holy or separate (Psalm 99:9). Jesus suffered the wrath of our Holy Creator for the sins which we have committed. Furthermore, God’s Word says: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that does not believe is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that does not believe the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:16-21, 36).

“If you continue in My word, then you are my disciples indeed; And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. If the Son of Man shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.” (John 8:31,32,36).

Sources:

Codex Justinianus, 1. iii., Tit. 12, 3, trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, 5th ed. (New York, 1902), Vol. III, p. 380, note 1.

Dead Sea Scrolls. 4Q246.

The Epic of Gilgamesh.

The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible: An Illustrated Encyclopedia, Supplementary Volume, ed. Keith Crim, Lloyd Richard Bailey, Sr., Victor Paul Furnish, and Emory Stevens Bucke (Nashville: Abingdon Press, 1962), 97.

Holy Bible, King James Version.

“Pastoral Crisis Intervention.” May 15, 2006. available: http://www.infowars.com/images2/ps/pastor_fema_docs.pdf

Sanhedrin. 43a. (probably late second century).

Acharya S. “The Christ Conspiracy.” Adventures Unlimited Press, 1999.

Ankerberg, John; Weldon, John. “Christianity, the Resurrection of Christ, and the Mystery Religion.” available: http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/theological-dictionary/TD0304W4.htm

Blavatsky, H.P. “The Secret Doctrine.” Vol. 2, Theosophical University Edition.

Bruce, F.F. “The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?” Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1964.

Burkert, Walter. “Ancient Mystery Cults.” (Cambridge, Massachusetts, and London: Harvard University Press, 1987), 75.

Carpenter, Edward. “Pagan and Christian Creeds.” DODO Press. pp. 17-18.

Carrier, Richard. “Brunner’s Gottkoenigs & the Nativity of Jesus: A Brief Communication.” 2004. available: http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/carrier_luxor_inscription.html

Carrier, Richard. “Kersey Graves and the World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors.” 2003. available: www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/graves.html

Collins, D.H., Was Noah’s Ark stable? Creation Research Society quarterly 14(2):83–87, September 1977.

Dio Cassius, Roman History, book 68, chap. 32, and book 69, chaps. 12-14, in Loeb Classical Library, Vol. VIII, pp. 394-397, 420-423, 446-451; Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, book 4, chap. 2, in NPNF, Second Series, Vol. I, pp. 174, 175.

Ferguson, Everett. “Backgrounds of Early Christianity.” 2nd Edition (Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdman’s Publishing Company, 1993), 248.

Frankfort, H. “Ancient Egyptian Religion An Interpretation.” New York: Columbia University Press, 1948), 10.

Freke, Timothy; Gandy, Peter. “The Jesus Mysteries: Was the ‘Original Jesus a Pagan God?” New York: Harmony Books, 1999.

Geisler, Norman. “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist.” 2004. p. 312.

Gordon, Richard. “Image and Value in the Greco-Roman World.” (Aldershot: Variorum, 1996), p. 96

Habermas, Gary. “Ancient Non-Christian Sources for the Life of Christ.” Chapter 9. available: http://www.garyhabermas.com/books/historicaljesus/historicaljesus.htm#ch9

Habermas, Gary R., Licona, Michael. “The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus.” Grand Rapids MI : Kregel Publications, 2004, 91.

Hall, Manly P. “Lost Keys of Freemasonry.” p. 48.

Holding, J. P. “Mighty Mithraic Madness.” available: http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html

Holding, James Patrick. “Have No Fear — Sargon is Here! Did Sargon’s Birth Legend Influence Moses’ Story?” available: http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/sargon.html

Jeffrey, Grant. “Historical Evidence About Jesus.” available: http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/criteria.htm

Jeffrey, Grant. “The Signature of God.” Nashville, TN: W Publishing Group, 1998.

Josephus, Flavius. “The Antiquities of the Jews.” New York: Ward, Lock & Bowden, 1900.

Komoszewski, J. Ed; Sawyer, James M.; Wallace, Daniel B. “Reinventing Jesus: What the DA VINCI CODE and Other Novel Speculations Don’t Tell You.” (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 2006), 230.

Lambrechts, P. “La’ Resurrection de Adonis,” in Melanges Isadore Levy, 1955, pp. 207-240.

Lucian of Samosata. “The Death of Peregrine.” 11-13.

Machen, J. Gresham. “The Virgin Birth of Christ.” (Grand Rapids, MichiganL Baker, 1965, reprint of Harper & Row edition, 1930), 330, 336, quoted in Lee Strobel, The Case for the Real Jesus: A Journalist Investigates Current Attacks on the Identity of Christ (Grand Rapids, Michigan: ZONDERVAN, 2007), 181.

Martyr, Justin. “First Apology/ The Apostolic Fathers: Martyr and Irenaeus by Philip Schaff Erdmans Pub.

McCollister, John C. “The Christian Book of Why.”Middle Village, NY: Jonathan David Publishers, 1983.

McDowell, Josh. “Evidence for Christianity.” Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson, Inc, 1990.

McDowell, Josh; Wilson, Bill. “He Walked Among Us: Evidence for the Historical Jesus.” San Bernadino, CA: Here’s Life Publishers, 1988.

Miller, Glenn. “Good Question. . . Was Jesus Christ just a Copy Cat Savior Myth?” available: www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat.html

Morford, Mark and Robert Lenardon. “Classical Mythology.” (6th ed) (Longman, 1999), 223.

Nash, Ronald. “Was the New Testament Influenced by Pagan Religions.” Christian Research Journal, Winter 1994, page 8. available: http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0169a.html

Origen. “On the Gospel of Matthew.” Book X:15.

Phlegon. “Contra Celsum.” 2.14, 33, 59

Pliny the Younger. “Epistles.” X.96.

Powell, Barry. “Classical Myth.” (3rd ed) (Prentice Hall: 2001), 250.

Robertson, John Mackinnon “Christianity and Mythology.” 1900

Sarfati, Jonathan. “Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic.” March 29, 2004. available: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2004/0329gilgamesh.asp

Scofield. The Holy Bible, New King James Version. Thomas Nelson Inc. 1982.

Seutonius. “Life of the Caesars.” 26.2.

Seutonius. “Life of Claudius.” 25.4.

Sheifler, Michael. “Pagan Sun Worship and Catholicism.” These Times. May, 1982. available: http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/xmas.htm

Spielvogel, Jackson; Redles, David. “Hitler’s Racial Ideology: Content and Occult Sources.” Simon Wiesenthal Center Annual 3, chapter 9. 1986.

Tacitus. “The Annals of Imperial Rome.” 15.44. c. A.D. 115.

Twelftree, Graham H. “Jesus the Miracle Worker: A Historical and Theological Study.” (IVP:1999), 192.

Thallus. “Chronography.” 18.1.

Watson, Paul Joseph. “Secret FEMA Plan to Use Pastors as Pacifiers in Preparation For Martial Law.” May 24, 2006. PrisonPlanet.com. Available: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/240506femaplan.htm

Woodrow, Ralph. “Babylon Mystery Religion.” 1966. Out of print.

Yamauchi, Edwin. “The Passover Plot or Easter Triumph?” in J. W. Montgomery, (ed), Christianity for the Tough-Minded (Minneapolis: Bethany, 1971).

“Attis.” available: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attis

Blue Letter Bible. available: http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=165

“Dead Sea Scrolls.” available: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_scrolls

“Edward Carpenter.” available: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carpenter

“Gerald Massey.” available: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey

“Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.” available: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Petrovna_Blavatsky

“Jesus as Mushroom.” Time. June 8, 1970. available: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,909327,00.html

‘Zeitgeist’ Online Movie: Part One Refuted.” August 23, 2007. available: http://www.preventingtruthdecay.org/copycats.shtml

“Zeitgeist: Analysis and Response.” available: http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=124&Itemid=107
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I know it is easier to watch YouTube than read all the text provided, and it is certainly easier watch YouTube than to check any of the footnotes in the text provided, but for the sake of intellectual honesty it only seems fair to not only do some reading but to double-check the footnotes. I suppose that if people take conspiracy movies like Zeitgeist as factual then they will believe just about anything. I choose to believe in Christ as a God. There is plenty of historical evidence to show that he did exist as a man. The fact that I choose him as my savior is a matter of faith. If some people don't have that faith I don't have a problem with that. But we can at least agree that Zeitgeist is about as factual as The DaVinci Code if people take the time to read the resources I provided.

Oh, and here are more articles you may want to read, most of which has a dozen or more footnotes.

Some notes on alleged parallels between Christianity and pagan religions
And, a proof that Winstin Churchill did not exist!


Similarities between Jesus & Pagan Dieties

Dealing Down Dionysus : Did The Greek God of Wine Influence Christian Beliefs?

Isn't the Jesus story just a retelling or 'copycat' of earlier godmen stories?

What's the Buzz on Tammuz? Did the Ancient Sumerian Shepherd-god Influence Christianity?

Walk Like an Egyptian - Comparing Osiris, Horus, and Jesus

Is the Christian Fish Symbol Pagan? One Fish, Two Fish: Or, Don't Fall Hook, Line and Sinker
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
Bob, have you gone off the deep end? I tried reading the long post but it's as nutty as the three vids. You can't prove faith with, in effect, a mathematical proof.

Faith is a comfort to many people, fine. But I don't see any reason to follow either the pros or the anti's down the path of their 'chain of evidence'. Both seem to get loonier the farther you go.

I have no doubt that God if he exists expects a simple faith from his followers, not all this nonsense.
 

Cityboy

Banned
I know it is easier to watch YouTube than read all the text provided, and it is certainly easier watch YouTube than to check any of the footnotes in the text provided, but for the sake of intellectual honesty it only seems fair to not only do some reading but to double-check the footnotes. I suppose that if people take conspiracy movies like Zeitgeist as factual then they will believe just about anything. I choose to believe in Christ as a God. There is plenty of historical evidence to show that he did exist as a man. The fact that I choose him as my savior is a matter of faith. If some people don't have that faith I don't have a problem with that. But we can at least agree that Zeitgeist is about as factual as The DaVinci Code if people take the time to read the resources I provided.

Oh, and here are more articles you may want to read, most of which has a dozen or more footnotes.

At least you put some of your own thoughts into this post. I did read your multi-page copy/paste. Did you watch all three videos I posted?

There is plenty of historical evidence to show that he did exist as a man.

OK, please show us this "evidence".

When you make a statement like this:

I suppose that if people take conspiracy movies like Zeitgeist as factual then they will believe just about anything.

This tells me you are closed minded and unwilling to even look at the possibility that your beliefs could be wrong. If your beliefs are factual, you would have no fear examining other possibilities. I think you, and many Christians are afraid to seek the truth. You can onlly support your position by quoting scripture written, in some cases, hundreds of years after "Christ" allegedly lived.

I am not saying I believe Zeitgeist outright. I am, however, willing to entertain the possibility that there is at least some documented truth in the film, whereas you, and many Christians have chosen to block out all other possibilities and blindly follow a story passed down from generation to generation with no basis in historical fact.

Why not look at other possibilites with the only intention being seeking fact? Don't look at films like Zeitgeist with the mind to discredit. Look with the mind to learn. Afterall, if your beliefs are true, you should have no fear of discovering other truths.
 
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Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Bob, have you gone off the deep end? I tried reading the long post but it's as nutty as the three vids. You can't prove faith with, in effect, a mathematical proof.
I totally agree. The source of the debunking comes from a non-Catholic minister. But much of the debunking was specific to the Zeitgeist allegations, and were not trying to prove 'faith' but rather were given to show the historical and factual errors in Zeitgeist. I didn't want to use a Catholic as a source because I'd be accused of being brainwashed. I never said you can prove faith. In fact if you read some of what I wrote, I said I choose to have faith and have no problem with folks who don't have it. So I am fine with people who choose to not share my faith, with people who have no faith, but much of Zeitgeist was just inaccurate historically and that is what most of that long post goes to show. There are literally dozens of refutations of Zeitgeist, just like there are dozens of refutations of The DaVinci Code. The refutations are based on both scriptural and non-scriptural documents of the time.
 

Cityboy

Banned
I totally agree. The source of the debunking comes from a non-Catholic minister.

This alleged "debunking" came from another theist. Can you not research and come up with facts of your own? What you posted was this preachers opinion. That's just like quoting scripture.

But much of the debunking was specific to the Zeitgeist allegations, and were not trying to prove 'faith' but rather were given to show the historical and factual errors in Zeitgeist.

I did not see much "debunking" in this preachers opinion piece.


I didn't want to use a Catholic as a source because I'd be accused of being brainwashed.

You need to let the attitude of being "accused" of anything go. I am simply attempting to have a discussion. I'm not "accusing" you of anything. I am however challenging your sources. Relax.

So I am fine with people who choose to not share my faith, with people who have no faith, but much of Zeitgeist was just inaccurate historically....

Again, the preachers opinion you posted does not refute much. The fact is that there are historical Egyptian and other Pagan historical documents that support some of the information in Zeitgeist, while no historian during the time of Jesus recorded his existence. Would you not think that a man who walked on water and performed all those miricals would have at least earned mention by the scribes of that time?


..... and that is what most of that long post goes to show. There are literally dozens of refutations of Zeitgeist, just like there are dozens of refutations of The DaVinci Code. The refutations are based on both scriptural and non-scriptural documents of the time.

I don't know anything about the DaVinci code yet, but since you bring it up, I will read it. However, the only source you have to support your belief is the scripture, which is simply a mystical, unproven document, which may well be a work of fiction.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I did not see much "debunking" in this preachers opinion piece.
Go back and read it again, and look at the links and check the sources. There were many references to NON-Biblical resources that were cited, and I provided backup articles on some of the topics discussed in Zeitgeist that show its errors. It matters not if a theist or a non-theist wrote the rebuts, there were plenty of sources cited that confirmed each other and/or refuted Zeitgeist, including modern encyclopedias, college professors, and documents that go back as far as the Dead Sea Scrolls which pre-date Christianity by more than a millennium, all of which were used to refute claims made in Zeitgeist. Zeitgeist simply takes things out of context and is sloppy research.

Again, I have no problem with people who suggest that Jesus is not the Savior. We are each entitled to believe as we see fit. It is what theists call free will. :tiphat: But I won't even argue the existence versus non-existence of the Lord with anyone. Like I said, we are each entitled to believe as we wish.
 

Cityboy

Banned
Go back and read it again, and look at the links and check the sources. There were many references to NON-Biblical resources that were cited, and I provided backup articles on some of the topics discussed in Zeitgeist that show its errors. It matters not if a theist or a non-theist wrote the rebuts, there were plenty of sources cited that confirmed each other and/or refuted Zeitgeist, including modern encyclopedias, college professors, and documents that go back as far as the Dead Sea Scrolls which pre-date Christianity by more than a millennium, all of which were used to refute claims made in Zeitgeist. Zeitgeist simply takes things out of context and is sloppy research.

Again, I have no problem with people who suggest that Jesus is not the Savior. We are each entitled to believe as we see fit. It is what theists call free will. :tiphat: But I won't even argue the existence versus non-existence of the Lord with anyone. Like I said, we are each entitled to believe as we wish.

You won't argue it because you can't. Look at the dates quoted in your cut/paste post. All the historical documents referenced are either bible verses or were written 50 or more years AD and is even more "sloppy" than Zeitgeist.

I see far more credibility in the Zeitgeist sources than those you posted, not because I want to "see", but because I am unclouded by the fear of Hell and damnation. There is at least logic to the Zeitgeist explanation, and many of the citations are historical in nature, whereas none of what you cited has any basis in fact or logic whatsoever.

I'm sure you watch the history Channel , National Geographic, and the Discovery Channel, etc. I've seen many shows attempting to find proof that Jesus existed, and not one of these documentaires has shown one shred of evidence. Copy/paste preacher articles proves only that you cannot prove your point.
 

daedong

New member
And quoting the infallible Word of God is a problem because ..... ?

Which god is that?

I happen to believe there is no god, and no one has come close to proving other wise, so how can there be words that are infallible.

We speak in different tongues.
 

Cityboy

Banned
Coming a little late to this discussion but ...


Why should he re-invent the wheel when it was already done?



And quoting the infallible Word of God is a problem because ..... ?

Same old same old. Can you address the claims in Zeitgeist that Christianity is simply a clone of ancient Egyptian religion with its sole basis in Astrology? The information presented in Zetigeist is far more convincing than someone quoting scripture, which is simply a story passed down from generation to generation without even any verified documentation from the historians of the time the story allegedly occurred.
 

alaska120

Mayor McCheese
SUPER Site Supporter
Proof?
Just look at the very definition of the word faith.
Faith does not need proof. If it did then obviously it wouldn't be faith.
As far as the legitimacy of religious beliefs and who is 'right' or 'wrong', at the base of each one still lies one supreme being.
Even the ancient Native American Indian's had one 'Great One' and their belief system goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay further back than Christianity.
 

daedong

New member
Proof?
Just look at the very definition of the word faith.
Faith does not need proof. If it did then obviously it wouldn't be faith.
As far as the legitimacy of religious beliefs and who is 'right' or 'wrong', at the base of each one still lies one supreme being.
Even the ancient Native American Indian's had one 'Great One' and their belief system goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay further back than Christianity.

If it takes faith how can the word of god be infallible
 
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