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No Wonder Ford is in the CRAPPER ~65mpg car not for USA

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Ford doesn't believe they can sell a car that gets 65mpg in the USA because it has a diesel engine. Are they total idiots up in Dearborn? They can sell this car all day long and convert people to diesel by simply putting a simple cost/benefit sales sheet on the window, maybe edu-ma-cate their sales people on the cost savings of diesel and these things would sell by the boat load!

IDIOTS!!!
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37/b4099060491065.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5k

The 65 mpg Ford the U.S. Can't Have
Ford's Fiesta ECOnetic gets an astonishing 65 mpg, but the carmaker can't afford to sell it in the U.S.

0904_mz_ecocar.jpg

The ECOnetic will go on sale in Europe in November

by David Kiley

If ever there was a car made for the times, this would seem to be it: a sporty subcompact that seats five, offers a navigation system, and gets a whopping 65 miles to the gallon. Oh yes, and the car is made by Ford Motor (F), known widely for lumbering gas hogs.

Ford's 2009 Fiesta ECOnetic goes on sale in November. But here's the catch: Despite the car's potential to transform Ford's image and help it compete with Toyota Motor (TM) and Honda Motor (HMC) in its home market, the company will sell the little fuel sipper only in Europe. "We know it's an awesome vehicle," says Ford America President Mark Fields. "But there are business reasons why we can't sell it in the U.S." The main one: The Fiesta ECOnetic runs on diesel.

Automakers such as Volkswagen (VLKAY) and Mercedes-Benz (DAI) have predicted for years that a technology called "clean diesel" would overcome many Americans' antipathy to a fuel still often thought of as the smelly stuff that powers tractor trailers. Diesel vehicles now hitting the market with pollution-fighting technology are as clean or cleaner than gasoline and at least 30% more fuel-efficient.

Yet while half of all cars sold in Europe last year ran on diesel, the U.S. market remains relatively unfriendly to the fuel. Taxes aimed at commercial trucks mean diesel costs anywhere from 40 cents to $1 more per gallon than gasoline. Add to this the success of the Toyota Prius, and you can see why only 3% of cars in the U.S. use diesel. "Americans see hybrids as the darling," says Global Insight auto analyst Philip Gott, "and diesel as old-tech."

None of this is stopping European and Japanese automakers, which are betting they can jump-start the U.S. market with new diesel models. Mercedes-Benz by next year will have three cars it markets as "BlueTec." Even Nissan (NSANY) and Honda, which long opposed building diesel cars in Europe, plan to introduce them in the U.S. in 2010. But Ford, whose Fiesta ECOnetic compares favorably with European diesels, can't make a business case for bringing the car to the U.S.

TOO PRICEY TO IMPORT
First of all, the engines are built in Britain, so labor costs are high. Plus the pound remains stronger than the greenback. At prevailing exchange rates, the Fiesta ECOnetic would sell for about $25,700 in the U.S. By contrast, the Prius typically goes for about $24,000. A $1,300 tax deduction available to buyers of new diesel cars could bring the price of the Fiesta to around $24,400. But Ford doesn't believe it could charge enough to make money on an imported ECOnetic.

Ford plans to make a gas-powered version of the Fiesta in Mexico for the U.S. So why not manufacture diesel engines there, too? Building a plant would cost at least $350 million at a time when Ford has been burning through more than $1 billion a month in cash reserves. Besides, the automaker would have to produce at least 350,000 engines a year to make such a venture profitable. "We just don't think North and South America would buy that many diesel cars," says Fields.

The question, of course, is whether the U.S. ever will embrace diesel fuel and allow automakers to achieve sufficient scale to make money on such vehicles. California certified VW and Mercedes diesel cars earlier this year, after a four-year ban. James N. Hall, of auto researcher 293 Analysts, says that bellwether state and the Northeast remain "hostile to diesel." But the risk to Ford is that the fuel takes off, and the carmaker finds itself playing catch-up—despite having a serious diesel contender in its arsenal.​
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
It's the customers is why Ford will not put that in the United States. Mention Diesel and most people go ick. They don't understand it and think it is dirty and more expensive to maintain and operate. Until the people wake up I don't blame Ford. JMO
 

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
they could put that little diesel plant in their Ranger pickup and it'd sell like hotcakes. Can't be any worse than the 4 banger gas model for power, and doubling the mileage would be a serious bonus to their truck market!
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
they could put that little diesel plant in their Ranger pickup and it'd sell like hotcakes. Can't be any worse than the 4 banger gas model for power, and doubling the mileage would be a serious bonus to their truck market!

YUP. That would be a nice match too. And pick-up truck buyers are far more likely to accept a diesel, might make it more acceptable to car buyers.

But Ford is being short sighted. I really do think that most consumers are ignorant of the facts when it comes to diesel engines, especially now that diesel costs more per gallon. But if you explain that it gets 65mpg AND it lasts longer, AND it is cheaper to operate, AND it is easier to maintain THEN maybe the public will turn around.
 

cj7

New member
yeah I could buy that but I am not in the market at all for a new car.

never really been a vw fan anyway.
 

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
the small diesel idea has had me waiting for the Mahindra truck for about 2 years now - I think Ford is really missing the boat on this one.
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
YUP. That would be a nice match too. And pick-up truck buyers are far more likely to accept a diesel, might make it more acceptable to car buyers.

But Ford is being short sighted. I really do think that most consumers are ignorant of the facts when it comes to diesel engines, especially now that diesel costs more per gallon. But if you explain that it gets 65mpg AND it lasts longer, AND it is cheaper to operate, AND it is easier to maintain THEN maybe the public will turn around.

Insert that thought into the modern, Wal-Mart mentality of the American Consumer: Result is what we got now. :furious:
 

DarkStarChilde

New member
it's all this brainwash about alternative energy and environment and crap. it's all a conspiracy! they are doing it on purpose.
 

The Tourist

Banned
How do these eco-diesels sound? Do they make the same bang and clatter of a truck diesel, or are they muffled like the usual normal passenger car?

Can these little motors be turbo-charged?
 

Trakternut

Active member
I bet if Ford put some thought into the marketing aspect, they might stand a chance to sell diesels here. They could catch people's attention with the 65 mpg figure, then hold mini-seminars on the operations and new features of the engine which makes it a consumer friendly powerplant.
After spending nearly 18 years driving heavy trucks, a little diesel in my driveway wouldn't bother me a bit.
In our area, cold weather operation would be something that people would need education on. Ford could put a program out where the dealerships would offer to change fuel filters each fall without charge for the labor, just the cost of the filter, for a given number of years after the purchase of the vehicle.
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
How do these eco-diesels sound? Do they make the same bang and clatter of a truck diesel, or are they muffled like the usual normal passenger car?

Can these little motors be turbo-charged?

My VW's have a cute little rattle to them. They (2001's) are not "common rail" motors, so there is an injection pump click. They also have insulated covers and skid plates under the motor to muffle engine noise. Slightly louder than a similar gas motor outside, but from in the cabin, no more noisy at all.

(Nothing compared to the beautiful music of my '94 Cummins. :brows:)

There is not an automotive diesel sold any more without a turbo. The turbo multiplies the efficiency of the motor making is almost mandatory at this point.

Trakternut said:
In our area, cold weather operation would be something that people would need education on. Ford could put a program out where the dealerships would offer to change fuel filters each fall without charge for the labor, just the cost of the filter, for a given number of years after the purchase of the vehicle.

With proper fuel and normal maintenance, cold weather has no effect on a diesel engine starting. I have only ever gelled a diesel once (20+ years of only driving 'little' diesels) and that was through my own stupidity of fueling at a known 'poor' quality fuel distributor.

Fresh, winter-blended diesel is key. My rule is to go where I see all the truckers going if I'm in doubt.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I drove a diesel Audi A4 all over the UK this summer. It was barely audible that it was a diesel. The sound was more of a rumble than a clatter. Certainly nothing like a truck.
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Listen to a Mercedes Blue-Tec. Oops, you don't even know there's a diesel under the hood.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Listen to a Mercedes Blue-Tec. Oops, you don't even know there's a diesel under the hood.

Yup, my dealer let me play with one of those for a few days. AWESOME engine under the hood. Sadly the car is sort of ugly and costs in the $60,000 range.

What we need here in the USA are some subcompacts and compacts (like the VW JETTA TDI) that can usher in mainstream super efficient cars to the general public. The MB Blue Tec is clearly well inside the Luxury class vehicle price range.
 

Junkman

Extra Super Moderator
It's the customers is why Ford will not put that in the United States. Mention Diesel and most people go ick. They don't understand it and think it is dirty and more expensive to maintain and operate. Until the people wake up I don't blame Ford. JMO

they could put that little diesel plant in their Ranger pickup and it'd sell like hotcakes. Can't be any worse than the 4 banger gas model for power, and doubling the mileage would be a serious bonus to their truck market!

bummer

I think it would be great way to go having a diesel.

the small diesel idea has had me waiting for the Mahindra truck for about 2 years now - I think Ford is really missing the boat on this one.

How do these eco-diesels sound? Do they make the same bang and clatter of a truck diesel, or are they muffled like the usual normal passenger car?

Can these little motors be turbo-charged?

Listen to a Mercedes Blue-Tec. Oops, you don't even know there's a diesel under the hood.

I know that Massachusetts and California both will not allow registration of new diesel passenger cars. They have an outright ban on them for some stupid reason, called "environmentally damaging". You can register one if it is more than 6 months old and registered and purchased out of state. I have been told that Massachusetts will not allow you to register it in state, unless it was previously registered to you out of state. Both states use the same emission regulations, and it is somewhere in those regulations that the problem lies. Same for small trucks.
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
I know that Massachusetts and California both will not allow registration of new diesel passenger cars. They have an outright ban on them for some stupid reason, called "environmentally damaging". You can register one if it is more than 6 months old and registered and purchased out of state. I have been told that Massachusetts will not allow you to register it in state, unless it was previously registered to you out of state. Both states use the same emission regulations, and it is somewhere in those regulations that the problem lies. Same for small trucks.

The new VWs and Mercedes (2007 and later) cars are 50-state emissions legal and can be purchased any where in the US (if you can find them).

Someone is giving you bad information, Junk.
 

Junkman

Extra Super Moderator
Not bad, but just not up to date. Things do change, and not every one is current with all the changes.
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Don't know about the VWs, but the Blue Tec uses urea as some sort of emissions control. And you can't just pee in the container; it has sensors and must be the correct stuff.

The tank holds 7 gallons and lasts 15,000 miles, plus or minus.
 
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