Mig, smig...

I'm trying to decide what size Mig machine to get. I see alot of, "will weld up to 1/4". Well, thats nice. Are they talking in one pass, or multiple passes.
I'm thinking of a 170-180 amp machine, solid and fluxcore wire, with a gas setup. I'm not an oldhand professional welder, and 99% of any welding I do are 1/8" to 1/4". I am thiking the Mig would be the way to go for stuff like that, anything heavier would be with stick at least for the first, then Mig on the rest. Does anyone think I should get a lighter duty Mig for this type work, to save a few bucks?

Oh yeah, Jan said I could use my company bonus to get my Mig. Man, that womans is definetly ALLRIGHT!!

I'm a total newby but the smaller mig on 120V is what I went with (Clarke 130Amp). I'm shopping for a big stick but also thinking of just saving for a fancy TIG.

I'm pretty sure all the pros will tell you to go with the higher 220V machine (miller). Especially if you already are wired for 220. I didn't have a 220 circuit in my garage so I was going to either have to put one in or run the bigger welder off my generator.

The welder shopping experience seems to be a lot like tractor shopping. Once you know exactly what you need to do with it then the choices will get narrowed down for you.

I "think" most 130amp or higher machines can handle 1/4 inch stuff with their thickest wire and going slowly. My 130 amp has no problem with 1/8 stuff at a decent speed. I think I'd be going pretty slow with 1/4 or I would just multi-pass. If done right it doesn't seem that multi-pass is that bad for most of what I have to do. I can just keep stacking it up - I'm not building airplanes.

Of course, I'm just posting for the heck of it and am in no way an authority. If Dargo or MadReferree are around they seem to know their stuff.

PB; I've got 220 out in the barn as it is, to run my Lincoln Idealarc250. So I'm leaning towards a Mig on that voltage.

Doing multiple passes is probably what I'd do with anything 3/16" or thicker, up to 1/4". Anything thicker, then I'd most likely just stick it.

I think Mig welds look great for the most part, but with stick, I know it's burned in good. I've thought of running the root passes with stick, and then running beads, multiple if needed, with Mig.

I've done Mig, Tig, and stick. Mig is definetly the easiest and quickest, Tig is very clean but time consuming, stick is the hardest, but I'm old, and still think it the best if thats what ya got.

I checked out the specs on your Idealarc. It's a good machine, I'm hoping a used one similar to that shows up eventually but I'm not in a hurry. It would be nice to get a TIG machine that can do stick too and have all the bases covered.

I was thinking of getting a torch for cutting metal but when you consider the cost of everything then suddenly plasma cutters look more affordable. I think they will come down in price over the next few years.

My ultimate machine is the Miller 304XMT CC/CV. You can stick, Mig, and Tig with it. Pretty steep price though, around $3200-$3600. That's what I learned on, and really am spoiled. My Lincoln welds just as well, but it's huge. It's not the inverter type, and this bad boy is HEAVY!

Oh yeah!! A plasma cutter. I used one a couple times, and I'll tell you, I'm sold!

Johnday, I wanted the same thing you are talking about. I decided on the Miller 175 it is 220 volt and it will do everything you are talking about, I really like the machine. It cost me $950 out the door with a 80 CF bottle, 11# spool of .030" wire, and a can of nozzle dip.

HarleyScooter; I lean more to the Miller than Lincoln or Hobart myself. Did you compare the three before you got the Miller? Price isn't everything, quality and ease of use are though.

John, have you considered something like the Miller DVI, it is reasonably compact, is dual voltage so you can use it in a pinch on standard household current if you need to make a repair where you don't have 220 and is reasonably priced too. In fact you'd be able to buy a DVI and a small plasma cutter for the price of Miller 304XMT.

Since you've already got the Lincoln unit, you might want to consider a smaller unit like a Miller Passport. I bought one of those mid-last year and love it. It is a 45 pound suitcase that contains a small bottle of shielding gas (CO2), wire spool, and is dual voltage. When I needed to attach some hooks to my old trailer I simply carried the Passport out to where the trailer was parked and did the welds outside in the sunshine. For high volume fabrication the Passport is a bad choice but for moderate use and portability, it is an excellent tool with reasonable capacity (but it is expensive at about $1300 to $1400 -- you pay extra for dual voltage & portability)

Hey Bob. I just looked up that Miller Passport. It looks like a real nice machine, except for the price! And the DVI looks good too! I don't need the dual voltage though, although I can see where it may be handy, especially in the case of the Passport. I think I'm going to go with the Miller 175, if I can find a decent price. Seems like I've seen them for around $700, opposed to the $900+ on the Miller website. I tried looking on ebay today, they had alot of elcheapos, not at all what I'd be interested in.

That XMT304 CC/CV is basically a dream for right now, one of these days,,,,,,
One thing I noticed, is there doesn't appear to be many Miller machines for sale used anywhere I know of.

At any rate, it'll probably be a couple months before the company kicks out the bonuses, so I've got some time to shop. That money's burnin' a hole in my pocket as I type!

Any one know of a source other than ebay and the manufacturers websites, that you may have dealt with?

Actually I bought mine right here in my home state and they were the same price as the Ebay dealers. I'd look local. By doing that I had a guy who knew what he was talking about helping me get what I needed.

Sterling idea Bob. I'll get back on the manufacturers sites, and find a local. One good about a local, if ya have trouble, they'll most likely be there if you need them.

I'll second Bob's Passport. If I didn't need a heavier machine for 1/2" stuff and a lot of 3/8" stuff, I would have bought the Passport rather than the MM251. My wife recently found the receipts (it's tax time) for my MillerMatic 251 and my HyperTherm PowerMax 1250 plasma cutter. I pretty well got a spanking over that. But, hey, I can cut really heavy stuff up quite easily and weld it back together again. That's important to be able to do, right?!

Just got back a bit ago from looking at a couple Mig machines, Miller 175, and Lincoln 175. The Miller is $799, and the Lincoln was $699. Both included the light duty cart with cylinder storage built in, gas regulator, and everthing except a hood, jacket, and gloves. I guess I'm biased towards the Miller, and for only $100 more, it would make me feel better. I really didn't talk to the salesperson much, she was pretty busy. At the checkout,[I bought a new welding hat], I did get talking to the woman running the register. I asked her if those prices were a special, or they're regular price. She said that was the normal price, and I could most likely get an even better deal if I cared to bargain with them. Doesn't sound bad to me. And the good thing is, they're only 6 miles away if I have problems.
What do you guys think?

johnday said:

I could most likely get an even better deal if I cared to bargain with them. Doesn't sound bad to me. And the good thing is, they're only 6 miles away if I have problems.
What do you guys think?

Click to expand...

I thought you were waiting until your bonus arrived! But other than that, I like the idea of buying local if possible, it just makes sense to me to be able to take something back for repairs or to have someone to go to when I need help, advice, supplies or parts.

As far as which brand to buy, honestly I have no idea if one is better than the other, but I do know that whenever I've purchased something that was "cheaper" than what I really liked, I ended up unhappy with my purchase because everytime I would use that I would think to myself that I should have bought the other one. You seem to really like the Miller brand, just for that reason, that is the one you should buy.

Brent; I can see why Mama spanked you! I picked up a flier with that 1251 Plasma on it. You must be VERY serious about welding. It also had the 625 on the same flier, that one has 1/2" capacity. I think that one would work for me if I was going for a plasmatorch too. Sounds like you got some real decent welding equipment!

johnday said:

HarleyScooter; I lean more to the Miller than Lincoln or Hobart myself. Did you compare the three before you got the Miller? Price isn't everything, quality and ease of use are though.

Click to expand...

Johnday, I did compare the machines and found out that the Miller has an infinte voltage control, the Hobart and Linclons lower end machines have TAPS which only give you a few settings for voltage, Linclon does have a line of machines with the infinite voltage adjustment but they cost as much as the Miller and I allready have a Miller AC/DC Thunderbolt so I stayed with blue. I purchased the mig locally, after checking at 4 dealers I stopped in and was able to work on the price with one of them, I forgot to mention I bought the one with the cart. The machine with cart was $750 the 80 CF gas bottle was $115 full. If you want to weld with soild wire you will have to spring for the bottle too.

Bob; Looks like we posted at the same time! Couldn't agree more with you about just get the one you like. I've bought the cheaper item before, and like you, everytime I used it, I'd wished I'd gotten the other one.

Oh, I'm waiting, "fer ma chek ta git chere", before I buy. But self excitation gets ahold of me sometimes, and I go window shopping. Not always a good thing!

Harley; Sounds like you got just what I want! How long ago did you get the Miller? Have to agree with you too. I really didn't like the voltage adjustment on the Lincoln either.

I've read of guys using 75/25 gas with fluxcore. Did you ever try that? I've never used FCAW at all, but think I'll give it a shot, probably just because I can. $115 for a full bottle sounds decent, is that a mix, or straight?

Johnday, I purchased it last month on the 17th. There are different flux cored wires some require shielding gas and some do not you can go to Lincoln's web site at http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/lecobrowse.asp?locale=1033
and check out consumables to see all the different types. The down side to flux cored is the wire is expensive compared to solid wire. I will use the stick machine for any heavy work, I really wanted the mig for light guage welding 1/4" and under, and the 175 is great for that. The gas I am using is a mix 80% argon & 20 % CO2. For the $115 I own the bottle with a exchange policy, I will not get the same bottle back, but I will never have to pay to get the bottle inspected. I found the price to refill the bottle very flexable the price started out at $40 for a refill and ended up (after taking with the salesman for a while) at $15. He put those prices in the computer under my account name and that is all I will have to pay. I thought that was a good deal? I have been using the mig alot lately, you have to keep in mind the solid wires work good on clean steel and the flux cored wires are more forgiving, but you can grind your weld joints and it should work good.

I'd second the variable voltage adjustment. That's one thing my cheapo Clarke doesn't have and when doing thin stuff it would be nice to have more room to adjust the voltage. Otherwise, you have to adjust your gun travel speed and move fast which can take some trial and error to get used to.

As for using FCAW Gas Shielded - seems like an extra expense to me. I have a welding DVD from Northern Tool that covers FCAW Gas Shielded and basically recommends it for heavier welds that require de-oxidizing (flux) and good clean filler deposit rates. Seems like it would be useful for filling big welds on rusty metal (again no expert here). I think it's one of those things that you have to ask yourself: what are you building that can't be covered by Self shielded or GMAW?

About the only time that I don't strongly prefer using solid wire and gas is if I'm welding outside. Then I just use my arc welder. No matter what I'm using to weld, if I don't get most of the crud off I end up with an unacceptable weld. If the metal is rusty, I just make a quick pass or two with a wire brush wheel and I'm ready to go. The worst stuff is galvanized steel. If I don't grind that crap off, the weld looks like crap and the smell about kills me. Paint will also screw up a weld job. You can burn through it no problem with any welder, but the impurities float to the top and again look like crap.

If you can weld where there is no wind, I strongly suggest solid wire and shielding gas. I've never done a close comparison, but with the extra cost of flux wire, I'd bet that there isn't much difference in the cost of using that vs solid wire and gas. Besides, I really like not having to hammer slag off of stuff. I've even seen some less experienced welders end up with a dangerously bad weld and not realize it because they didn't bother to hammer the slag off. Generally this is on tractor implements where the guy doesn't care what it looks like, so he doesn't bother to clear the slag. The slag looks nice and smooth, but under it the weld is weak because of so many impurities that were present.

Keep in mind that I am very particular about my welds and my dad started me welding before I was in middle school. I am not able to do one of those "it doesn't matter how it looks" welds. You know, I'm also the kind of guy who can't keep quiet if I see you with a bugger hanging out of your nose that you don't know about. I just have to say something. Some people appreciate it, and some tell me that I'm an undesirable jerk.

Brent; UNdesireable? Nah. I need someone to point out my sometimes crappy welds. Jan doesn't know anything about welding, and the ones that do see it, don't say anything. I've yet to get where I want to be as far as consistent. Like yourself, no weld is too good.

Yeah, using gas with FCAW seemed like a waste to me, but since I'd heard of guys doing it, I just had to ask. Can't hardly wait for the check to get here and have my own mig. One thing for sure, I need to weld more than I have been. If the bloody weather starts cooperating as I have time, I want to get that counterweight project done.