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Construction Begins

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Thought I'd get off this bloody computer, and do a little cutting and welding. It was cold and windy, but felt good to be welding and building something again.

The first photo is what I started with, the TPH Trailer Mover I built awhile back. I cut off the D-Ring I'd welded on earlier, and welded it to the top of my counterweight, so I could move it around easier. I may leave it there for good.
I then welded a crossmember/bottom mount for the weight out of 1/4"X2"X2" angle. On the next few photos, you can see the weight, now laying on it's back, and see the bottom 2 boltholes that I'll use to fasten it to the angle.
Last photo gives you a better idea of what I'm doing.

The sliding channels I'm having milled, will bolt up on the lower crossmember, that's 3" channel. I think it should all come together, once I get that top link mount fabbed up.

Can't wait to try this, if it works, I'll never have to remove the weight in order to mount impliments. It'll give me good counterweight when using the loader, and additional ballst on whatever TPH stuff I'll have on the back. Should help alot when using a backblade or boxblade.

Thankyou to DaveNay, for an idea for the top link.
 

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johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Here's the remainder. Have to wait for more steel before I can any further.
 

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Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Good work John. I look forward to seeing it mounted on your tractor. Good pics!
 

TOMLESCOEQUIP

Just Plinkin Away the $$
John.......on the picture of the "D" ring welded to the top of the big blue weight, it looks like most of the weld is on the ring, not on the ring & weight 50/50.........check it for my piece of mind please ! Who sold you that weight anyway ?? ( High heat, slow speed, & weave ) remember welding 101..........watch the puddle, NOT THE ARC !!
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
I don't know what that D ring will be used for, but it does appear as if the weld was not hot enough. On a big honkin slab like that, crank up the heat. There again, that may only be a temporary piece on the big slab. If that is the case, just don't get under it when moving it with the D ring.
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
You guys caught me!!! I did fix that weld after I took the photo. That was the first weld of the day, and I inadvertently turned my hood off, instead of on.:pat: Wondered why I saw little points of light after that weld!!:pat: Needless to say, I didn't see too well when doing that one!
I was at 125amps with 1/8" 6010 rod.

Some guy in Ohio, ohyeah!! Tom Lester provided that weight, I hope it'll turn out as hoped.

I've got to go to the plant this morning for a couple hours, and hope to pickup that grooved C-channel, and maybe get somemore done today.
:tiphat::beer::tiphat:
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
I'm baaack! Wasn't too great a day for progrees, 48F, and a little wind, sunshine. I really didn't like the D-Ring I welded on the top edge, so I cut it off, and welded a bigger D-Ring on. Problems arose then, using 6010 1/8" rod, 125 amps, and making sure to burn in really good, the new weld failed when I went to lift it with the FEL. Actually the weld was fine, it was the base metal on the weight that failed. The weld pulled pieces of weight right out. I'm thinking this stuff isn't cast steel afterall, but castiron. I'm not knowledgable on welding forged steel to castiron, does anyone here?

I got my machined pieces of channel, and look like I may need to shorten them a bit, no big deal. I also went and bought 2 Hind links for the lower lift arms.

I'll get some photos tommorow of the parts, and other materials. Just wanted you all to know I was still around, after 12 hour shifts, I'm bloody well shot when I get home.:tiphat::beer::beer:
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Welcome back John,

Sorry to hear the top ring didn't hold up.

Is putting a ring on both of the narrow sides (near the top) an option? Don't know, but maybe you could run some grade 8 bolts or something into the meat of the weight to help hold things.

Brian
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Hi Brian; There is a 7/16" tapped hole near the top.. I was thinking of bolting a plate there, and weld a D-Ring to it. One thing I've found, this bad boy is heavy. When that ring came off, Jan felt it in the house when it hit the blacktop. I consider myself REAL lucky no one got hurt, includinng me!:pat::tiphat::beer:
 

TOMLESCOEQUIP

Just Plinkin Away the $$
johnday said:
Hi Brian; There is a 7/16" tapped hole near the top.. I was thinking of bolting a plate there, and weld a D-Ring to it. One thing I've found, this bad boy is heavy. When that ring came off, Jan felt it in the house when it hit the blacktop. I consider myself REAL lucky no one got hurt, includinng me!:pat::tiphat::beer:
John........you got a cold weld there dude ! The cast heat sinks the temp away from the weld area & you don't get proper fusion of the 2 unlike metals. If you want the weld to work, you gotta rosebud the weight with a torch until it's a dull red out quite aways from the weld area, weld the ring on, then pack the area in dry sand to let it cool slowly. If it cools too fast, you get a brittle area around the weld & it breaks !! Heat, heat, & more heat, My Man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Right on the money Tom!!! I'm thinking of using that 7/16" threaded bolt hole, with a grade 8 bolt. I could bolt a bracket of sorts to it, and only use it to move this thing around. I told Jan I needed an O/A setup, the eyes rolling told me all I needed to know!:eek: This thing is getting to be a challenge, but, I WILL PREVAIL!!!
If I get time today, I hope to post some photos. [I just know everyone is on the edge of their seats, overflowing with anticipation!!!]:yum:

I did a search on the net for a table on bolt shear strengths, after a dozen or so pages, I gave up. None of my little handbooks have this info. Anyone out there got a resource?:tiphat::beer:
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
DaveNay said:
My scanner at the office seems to not be working, or I would have a PDF file you could print out. Here is basically the same chart on the web.

http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tables/boltgrades.htm

7/16" Grade 8, 120ksi. I know that's quite a load, I'm assumming that's a side load? Tensile would be a straight pull. Dave, let me know if I'm wrong, don't need to take anymore chances.
Thanks very much.:thumb::tiphat::beer:
 

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
SUPER Site Supporter
johnday said:
7/16" Grade 8, 120ksi. I know that's quite a load, I'm assumming that's a side load? Tensile would be a straight pull. Dave, let me know if I'm wrong, don't need to take anymore chances.
Thanks very much.:thumb::tiphat::beer:

Unfortunately John, those numbers have very little real-world meaning. That is the tensile rating (straight pull, yes) of the material in a laboratory testing situation. The actual strength of your assembly is very dependent on a lot of other things. Is your tapped hole to the correct tolerance? Are the threads lubricated when torqued? Is the bolt over torqued and twisted? Is the center of gravity directly in line with the axis of the bolt, and therefore not imparting any shear to the bolt?

Looking at the load ratings for Hoist Rings from McMaster-Carr, I would place the load capacity of a 7/16 bolt somewhere around 2,000 lbs.

Personally, if I was building this I would probably go with a 1/2" or 5/8" hoist ring from McMaster.
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Dave, Yep, looks like a hoist ring is the way to go. I'll look around tommorow at the plant and see if I can come up with a loaner. Man, those things are expensive!!!

Also, I've got a lot to learn about engineering, no wonder you guys make the BIG bucks.:thumb::tiphat::beer:
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
The much anticipated photos are here!! Didn't get much done today either. All my efforts to come up with a way to handle this thing went bad. So, I'll show it, I said, and drilled a 1/2" hole clear thru the top of the weight. I'll either run some 1/2" rod thru it and weld a bracket of sorts on, or use a 1/2" Grade 8 bolt, all the way thru and use a bracket on that. I like the idea of the bolt myself.

1st photo, is of the 1/2" hole.

2nd, is of the old TPH trailer mover, adapted to the weight. You can see the angle, the bottom of the weight will be supported by, along with 3 nuts that are tacked on for now. Those will take 3/4" bolts thru the weight.
Also, you can see the sliding brackets I had machined, and one of the new hind links to be welded to the end of the sliding brackets. The 3/4" bolts you see on the right bracket, will be welded to the bottom crossmember of the triler mover. The brackets are too long as shown, I have to take an inch out of one end of both of them.
Ideas, concerns, comments?
 

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Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
If the ring on top broke off, wont the toplink eye break off too?
Other than that, looking good :thumb:
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Hey Jim! I won't be trying to weld on that bloody cast again! That hole in the top of the weight I drilled thru, will either take a 1/2" bolt, or a piece of rod. I'm thinking of making a U shaped bracket to attach to either the bolt or rod, then go from there. Dave suggested a hoist ring, and that is an excellent idea, but the cost?!! I'm not afraid to weld on regular steel, so methinks I'll come up with something out of 1/4" or better flat steel.:tiphat::beer::beer:
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Got an update on the counterweight/TPH project. I wasted yesterday being sick, and still don't feel that great, but it's 48F out right now, and didn't want to blow the whole day.
I got an attachment fabbed up to handle the weight, 3/8" think flat, and mounted a shouldered eyebolt thru it. No more trying to weld on that cast. That's a 1/2"Gr8 bolt you see on the U shaped bracket.
Once that was done, I picked it up with the FEL, being careful not to get underneath anything, and mounted the TPH trailer mover. Those are 3/4" studs you see. Shouldn't go anywhere I would think.:tiphat::beer:
 

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johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Man, it's been awhile since I got on this again. Only one photo, but just look at that masterpiece. The hook is of 1" steel flat stock cutout with a plasma cutter. The torch didn't have the standoff on the end, [someone lost it], so it was done freehand, and wasn't exactly right angle to the stock. I've a lot of grinding on it to square up the edges and get the gouges out, and make it look a little more presentable. The channel was made out of 2" square tubing with one face milled off. Then I drilled 3/8" holes in the hook and chanel to accept 3/8" Gr8 bolts. You can see it is adjustable for height, and should work like the top link on a quick hitch.
I really want to get this bloody thing done, painted and usable before much longer, I've got a house upnorth that has to be completed by midsummer.:tiphat::beer::beer:
 

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Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
Looking good John, dont think you mighta overdone it with the 1'' stock though :D
Man, I just love the cut that plasma gives.
Anyway, off to work, later
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Thanks Jim, have a goodun!! Maybe there'll be more on here later today.:tiphat::beer::coolshade
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Great work! I know only too well how much time it takes grinding on something to make it presentable. I did not have a plasma cutter until this last year and always made do with my O/A torch and my 7" and 4 1/2" grinders. By the size stock you used, I assume that you must have done some grinding with a 7" grinder or something similar. Those things will flat wear you out in a hurry. My 7" grinder is an old, old Milwaukee I bought at a pawn shop long ago. It feels like it weighs 30 pounds or so and gets much heavier as you use it. :eek:

I love making a pattern from plywood and using the stand off tip to cut complex patterns in steel. It still amazes me to be able to do that after only having a O/A torch all my life. Everything had to be free hand then. Compared to the cut possible with a plasma cutter, my torch stuff sucked! I guess since I don't have to do it every day, metal work is almost theraputic for me. I'm still working on my TIG welding on really thin aluminum though. I finally got to where I could make my welds on thick stuff look like stacked dimes, but the thin stuff is more difficult. Anyway, good work! You're speaking my language now. :thumb:
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
Dargo, welding alley with TIG is hard aint it, its real hard to get it to melt and flow, then all of a sudden its gone and you have a nice hole.
Apparently with the tip on steels you need to have a point, ground so that the grinding lines are inline with the length of the stick. This makes the current and weld pool more accurate and easier to control.
With alley you need a blob on the end of the tip, it will appear but just dont grind it off. No idea why, but thats what the guy said.
You probably know this, but no harm in writing it anyway. Correct me if I am wrong.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Mith, no correction from me. Dang if you're not right about the dreaded hole appearing right when you think you have things flowing right on the thin stuff.:mad: My dad can weld a pop can back together after cutting it in half with a knife to where it not only looks decent, but doesn't leak. Also, it really pisses me off when he does that and makes it look easy! I gave up trying to do that. I always burn holes when trying to do that. It seems like once you get things just hot enough to melt your filler material you get a hole.:(

Although there isn't much call for welding aluminum pop cans back together, I'm told that is good practice for doing sheet metal repairs. Heck, if car fenders were made of 1/8" stuff I'd be fine. I can weld that thickness no problem with my MIG. It seems that I mostly use my TIG for aluminum and for fixing assorted yard ornaments my MIL brings me to fix for her. Sometimes I want to tell her that "sure I can fix it, but it will take me 4 hours to fix a $5 item". She brought me some cast aluminum chair to fix now that got broken in a recent storm, so I get to practice a bit more.
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Well, let's see if Doc is gonna do anymore maintenance now, I didn't know he was doing it, and I lost my whole post. Bob's right, it does suck being me:pat:.
Any way, I got out there and screwed around a while and accomplished something. That's 2 days in a row now.

I got my bolts welded up for the sliding channel the lower links will be welded to. The one on the left is slid all the way in. The right one is slid all the way out. I should windup with enough adjustment for the different width of my impliments. Please, everyone critique this if you want, I'd like feed back. And Brent, my welding is getting better:yum:.:tiphat::beer::beer:
 

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