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With the midwest drought-----

mla2ofus

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
---- Why don't we just shut down the ethanol plants 'til a good crop comes in.
Mike
 

Catavenger

New member
SUPER Site Supporter
That would make to much sense instead we are burning our food as fuel.

I wrote this up a couple weeks ago after seeing a segment on the Hal Lindsey report
(http://www.hallindsey.com)
and was thinking about posting it here:


Filling the gas tank of an SUV with pure ethanol requires more than 450 pounds of corn -- roughly enough calories to feed one person for a year."

"Powering the average U.S. automobile for one year on ethanol (blended with gasoline) derived from corn would require 11 acres of farmland, the same space needed to grow a year's supply of food for seven people."

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the Earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the Earth."

Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

Filling the gas tank of an SUV with pure ethanol requires more than 450 pounds of corn -- roughly enough calories to feed one person for a year." 1

"Powering the average U.S. automobile for one year on ethanol (blended with gasoline) derived from corn would require 11 acres of farmland, the same space needed to grow a year's supply of food for seven people."


Using food for fuel as the world starves:

http://www.wpaag.org/Ethanol%20-%20threatens%20to%20starve%20the%20world.htm

And because of the abundance of evil, the love of many will grow cold. Matthew 24:12


http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/corns-second-act-biobutanol/17142






http://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...in-senauer/how-biofuels-could-starve-the-poor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_vs._fuel
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
---- Why don't we just shut down the ethanol plants 'til a good crop comes in.
Mike


Don't worry this option is being explored as we type this.
It has been rumored all week at the USDA. It may come to pass. Untill a good crop comes along, next year.

Regards, Kirk
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
While this is a good idea and maybe true, the fact remains that the corn crop is not only limited, much of it is severely damaged. A good protionof it may only be useful as methanol feedstock.

The stalks have large amounts of sugar in them. They may be harvested as silage feed. Not as good as the corn but, somewhat more digestible for cattle.

Late summer rains could save the beans, and a lot of corn acreage is being plowed under for a late crop of that. Then a spring wheat and they try all over again next year. Depending on weather and location that is.

Not sure Iowa has enough time in their cycles.

Corn is a rather fragile crop and cannot grow without the assistance of man. Sadly we have become incredibly dependent on it. Some say the Mayans lost their civilization over it's failure. If memory serves, ETOH demand had put our reserves at record lows going into this season. Seems we tooka very bad gamble.

Food for thought.

But not our cars.
 

Catavenger

New member
SUPER Site Supporter
Sadly we have become incredibly dependent on it. Some say the Mayans lost their civilization over it's failure.
It's never a good idea to put all of your eggs in one basket think of the irish potato famine.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Soame may remember tha the last time we had a commie social justice President,we also had a bad couple of years with corn. Carter and Barry are so much alike, 'cept I think Carter was a bit better man.

Not sayin' they are related but I find it curious as hell.
The big storm then was our nation's dependence on the crop.

Guess we didn't learn nuthin'
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
As a farmer and enternal optomist, I think in say 18 months, this will be a foot note of crop history. Perhpas by then when corn is sitting rotting on the ground, then folks will understand why we make fuel out of the stuff. Sorry franc, but I've been here and seen this before. It isn't global warming either...

Normally this would not be happening. And we would not be talking about it. But unfortunately this year is one of those years we will remember for sure. Tough choices will have to be made. Provisions for this sort of thing need to be set in place so when it does happen there is a plan in place. As of now there is none.

Regards, Kirk
 

rugerman

New member
Nope you have to keep the ethanol in gas! If you take it out you will mess up the economy that zero has worked so hard to ruin. Without the ethanol your small gas motors will last a lot longer with less problems, you won't have to have a fuel stabilizer to keep fuel from breaking down, small motor repair shops will go out of business with nothing to fix, lawn mowers won't need to be sold because the old ones will last longer. Just think how many people that will put out of work. Next you'll want to stop the mail except on sun shinny days.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
The goal has aways been cellulosic ethatnol, or bio mass ethanol. The compound that holds plants cell structure together is called lignin. It is the holy grail for an ethanol producer. He who can break the lignin bond, can make ethatnol out of any bio mass. Right now corn stover and switch grass are being explored. Few plants have such technolgy, though, only a few pilot type plants are running as I understand it....

Regards, Kirk
 

grizzer

New member
Obama will buy all the ethanol he wants from Brazil.

My area looks good for crops but the land only produces 160 bu/ac, down South can nearly double that.

Local community college has a biomass plot and still. They run a small Ford 3cyl diesel tractor engine with it on a stand not under load. There is less btu in a gallon I forget the %.

When MN mandated biodiesel for on-hwy fuel the first cold snap (-20F) put trucks stalled out from gelled fuel on the shoulders all over the State.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
As a farmer and enternal optomist, I think in say 18 months, this will be a foot note of crop history. Perhpas by then when corn is sitting rotting on the ground, then folks will understand why we make fuel out of the stuff. Sorry franc, but I've been here and seen this before. It isn't global warming either...

Normally this would not be happening. And we would not be talking about it. But unfortunately this year is one of those years we will remember for sure. Tough choices will have to be made. Provisions for this sort of thing need to be set in place so when it does happen there is a plan in place. As of now there is none.

Regards, Kirk

Never said it was Global warming. I said it was immoral to burn food in our cars. I also said ETOH will still be made from this years crop because much of it is unpalatable for animals or humans.

Please, I was born much longer ago than yesterday.

BTW, we make fuel out of this stuff because it is mandated by the government to do so, not because it is the best use of the resource.There has always been some tonnage of corn that is unuasable as feed stock or as a source of human consumable fructose. It was perfectly suitable for the production of HEAT and fuel additives without resorting to government subsidies and mandates to produce for $4.00 a gallon what fossil sources could do for $2.00 a gallon. But now we grow it recklessly everywhere and in any way we can "On Purpose"

But the question raised here is the sensibility of having so much dependence on a single agricultural crop, both for a food source and a fuel source. Seems they should not compete so as to give us the Solomon's choice of eat or drive.

Meanwhile, it appears we have no plan in place, having started this year short on reserves of corn. Somebody somewheres in central planning should have made a decision. So there I believe we are in agreement.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
The goal has aways been cellulosic ethatnol, or bio mass ethanol. The compound that holds plants cell structure together is called lignin. It is the holy grail for an ethanol producer. He who can break the lignin bond, can make ethatnol out of any bio mass. Right now corn stover and switch grass are being explored. Few plants have such technolgy, though, only a few pilot type plants are running as I understand it....

Regards, Kirk

Right now the EPA is fining the oil producers hundreds of thousands of dollars because they do not add cellulose Ethanol to their products. It too is mandated by law.

But there is a small issue involved that has made the oil companies refuse to add celluose ETOH to their products..

Anybody want to quess what their beef is?

(the proper form of corn based alcohol is a good whiskey. Assuming I can meet the person, I'll put into the hands of the first correct answer, a fifth of JD.)
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I would guess that putting 10% ethanol in to gasoline cuts down on their total sales of product by 10% (in the States).
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well, Provide the right answer to my querry and I will try and return some of it home.
I think I remember that the reason for the lack of cellulose based alcohol in fuel is the lack of cellulose based alcohol in any meaningful quantity.
 

mak2

Active member
We finally had a significant rain yesterday and last night, I think they said just shy of 1/2 inch. First measureable rain since May something. My weeds are probably greening up nicely.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Guys/gals,

I was "down" last night, sick as a dog. Wondering if it has anything to do with being inside of a gran bin of corn at 100 outside temp and more like 130 on the inside. I think I over did it yesterday. Today we haul $8/bu corn, some thing I have never done before....

The crops are getting weaker each day. Dead spots are appearing, and growing rapidly.

Yes there should have been a plan for this event, as it will happen someday, like today...

But I am, far from a dooms dayer....This is a temporary thing, we have been over due for tis statistically for a long time. I am not surprised after the stongest La Nina condititons we've seen this century. It has nothing to do with gobal warming. It's just long term earth cylces of climate, not climate change that is permanently brought about by mankind...Besides we just drop some iron oxide into the oceans and watch the global co2 levels drop like a rock..:wink:

The ethanol debate here was a while back. I care not to revisit it, and bring ALL that information here once again. I suggest you do a search if you cann't remember the thread. I've not the time right now to debate this issue..:beatdeadhorse5:

Best regards, Kirk
 
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mak2

Active member
Hey Kirk, make a conscience effort to drink lots of water. On 100F days I set out 5x700cc H2O bottles and a couple of decaf Diet Cokes (my little bad habit) and make absoulutly sure I drink them during the day, then one more on my bike when I ride home. If I am going over 15 or 20 miles I drink even more. If you are working outside while it is this hot you have to drink nearly constantly. Heat injuries are dangerous, I know, and they sneak up on you. dont get thristy is the trick.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Hey Kirk, make a conscience effort to drink lots of water. On 100F days I set out 5x700cc H2O bottles and a couple of decaf Diet Cokes (my little bad habit) and make absoulutly sure I drink them during the day, then one more on my bike when I ride home. If I am going over 15 or 20 miles I drink even more. If you are working outside while it is this hot you have to drink nearly constantly. Heat injuries are dangerous, I know, and they sneak up on you. dont get thristy is the trick.

Thanks mak2,

Yea it's a constant battle to keep hydrated. But even if, you can still suffer the effects. My sinus's had something to do with last nights long deep sweating on the couch...My head drained out as well. The corn dust and chaff probably had alot to do with it. The corn is in excellent condition, no mold or any damage. So I haven't been wearing a mask in the heat. Maybe I should...Or I should have done a netti pot before bed.

Regards, Kirk
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
I think I remember that the reason for the lack of cellulose based alcohol in fuel is the lack of cellulose based alcohol in any meaningful quantity.

Bingo Jimbo!

No one has found a way, or reason, to economicaly make it in quantity.
The government might as well have insisted on a mandate for producing "solarium." For that fuel source we will have to wait until Battle Star Galactica arrives.
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
But Franc, the gummint needs the money that the fines generate to fund more alternate energy programs like solar panels, 35 mile range cars, and windmills.

Besides, the mean ol' oil corporations are paying the tax. It doesn't affect the consumer at all.

The entire cellulose fuel law is an interesting read. Basically a tax on a nonexistent commodity not yet viable. The argument was that once the tax was in place, someone would figure out how to make it.
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Richmond is dry. Even the weeds in my yard are dying. The leaves on a beautiful tree in my front yard are curled and falling. I've never seen that in the area in July.

Va July rainfall:Sun 01/07/2012 0.0 24 Mon 02/07/2012 0.0 24 Tue 03/07/2012 0.0 24 Wed 04/07/2012 0.0 24 Thu 05/07/2012 0.0 24 Fri 06/07/2012 0.0 24 Sat 07/07/2012 0.0 24 Sun 08/07/2012 0.0 24 Mon 09/07/2012 0.4 24 Tue 10/07/2012 6.6 24 Wed 11/07/2012 0.4 24 Thu 12/07/2012 0.0 24 Fri 13/07/2012 0.0 24 Sat 14/07/2012 0.0 24 Sun 15/07/2012 0.0 24 Mon 16/07/2012 0.0 24 Tue 17/07/2012 0.0 24 Wed 18/07/2012 0.0 24 Thu 19/07/2012 0.0 24
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
---- Why don't we just shut down the ethanol plants 'til a good crop comes in.
Mike

We've created an ethanol industry that helps support hard working Americans like Kirk and others. Whether one agrees with the concept of using corn or not in our fuel, the die has now been cast. The system is running. I'm sure most here are familiar with the old saying that once a can of worms has been opened, it invariably takes a larger can to put them all back in again.

The tipping point will come when this country will have to choose between corn in their food or corn in their fuel. I pray it does not come to that as we most likely will have bigger fish to fry in that eventuality.

Kirk has made a good case in the past for corn in the fuel. I do not agree with it, but who the hell am I. :biggrin:
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
Yep, besides our enemies need the oil money.

That right there is the biggest case for ramping up oil and natural gas production in this country. Every dollar that stays here is one less dollar to goes overseas.

I've said it all along that the best case for an economic renaissance in this country lies in energy. Oil, gas and nuclear power (Gen3 reactors).

Suddenly we have the most natural gas in the world. Now we need the infrastructure to pipe that gas to the ports and start shipping it to the highest bidder.

Free up the regulations and let the free enterprise system do it's thing. May need some government help but those tax dollars would be invested in 100% shovel ready projects like pipelines, port facilities and accelerated R&D to get those Gen3's steaming. Makes a lot more sense to me that investing in a wind farm that produces electricity at 34 cents Kwh and needs taxpayer funded subsidies forever to keep running.
 
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