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Astro van cat conversion

KickerM

Active member
Site Supporter
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Can you tell me the measurements of the cab? Basically around the base?
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
More chopping and cutting.

Got out the Sawzall and whacked off the roll bar and the forward tilt cab mounting bulkhead.

Pretty well getting the tub down to the bare bones now

The bulkhead fittings in the front for the hydraulic lines where they pass through the tub still need to come off.

A bit of grinding and smoothing where the front cab bulkhead welded on still needs to be done.

I have breakfast on the books now so think I will get out the square point shovel and go after the muck in the bilge.....
 

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BearGap

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
Is a 292 c.i. too long for you? Hard to beat them for down and dirty torque. I drove a 366 industrial in a C50 back in the 80s. That was a tough motor too, but $6500 to rebuild one even back then.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
The plan is to use either a 305 or a 350 V8

Loads of ready made mounts and such.

I want to keep the length short.

Big torque is not really a big deal with the low gears in the rear axle...
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Removed the transmission cross member as it looked bent.

Yes it was bowed down in the center at least 1/2 inch

Took it to the press and shoved out the old rubber mounts and tossed them in the garbage.

Got a straight edge out and checked the mount....yeah buddy...

Did some shoving on it and it is now straight again.

I intend to reuse this mount with the new engine and tranny....
May have to modify it some to accept the Chevy rear mount....but we will see as soon as I get the tranny.

Still shopping for a long shaft 400 as it will take up the extra area that the original tranny had the disc brake mounted.

Removed the front motor mount pedestals as well today.

The tub is looking pretty bare now.....:thumbup:

Soon it will be time to yank out the OC12 and go after it.

While under the front of the cat I got my first look at the front axle.

OMG ...What a train wreck.

Gonna have to set up the 20 ton bottle jack and do some rigging.....The old scabby patched up mess needs to come off the axles Left front side by the tub and then straighten the beast up.

I will know a lot more once the axle is out on the ground and I can get eyes on it....

It's salvageable, just gonna need to do a bit of shoving on it is all........
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Yesterday started off with big plans.

I decided to get the OC12 out of the Cat....

Started jacking up the cat to get more room to drop the box out.

After getting things jacked up I walked past the Right rear track wheel and it looked odd...decided to take a peek.

Gave the wheel a spin. OMG ...the thing wobbled all over the place and sounded horrible.

So I thought it was a good plan to make sure the axle spindle was not trashed.

Got it apart and to my delight the spindle was fine.... bearings were absolute junk though.

Cleaned everything up and installed the other new hub I had purchased on that spindle.

Figured I would check out the rest of the wheel bearings.

Some are definitely bad, but nothing alarming.

Decided to clean up the hub I took off and get it ready to receive new bearings and seal.

While I am cleaning up the hub my air compressor starts making bad noises......
By the time I got into the shop the beast it shedding pieces....

40 year old machine...been run hard and put away wet too many times.

So cat work stopped and compressor work started.

Compressor shot.

Got a pump only over at HF and now I gotta make it fit.

Bolt pattern is not the same, air piping needs to be moved.

Arrrrrrrrgh

I do not want to buy a new compressor (Complete) as I put a new motor on this one and a new pressure switch last year......

Some plumbing to do for sure.

But I need my air tools to get back to work on the project.....

And so it goes.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
All back in the saddle.

Said ~!@#$ it and took the replacement pump back to HF and picked up a complete new compressor set up.

Got their 29 gallon unit on wheels.

Always something eh ???

So now back to doing meaningful work on the cat.

One possible good outcome with this compressor issue..... I need an air tank for the Cat and the old compressor tank is a perfect fit across the inside of the tub to the rear of the tranny.....At least there will be a use for the old tank...... Another lease on life :thumbup:
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Well...not much to report.

Dropped off one of the half way decent tire/wheels off the cat at the tire shop and had them get it off the wheel.

I want to wire brush the inside of the wheel really good, polish up the rim edges and then paint the sucker with some decent rust inhibiting paint.

I chose a gray color to match the alloy front rims.

Took a good session with a big azz putty knife scrapping more of the crud out of the tub.

Just about as good as the scrapper is going to get it...then its time for the hot washer.....

So much fun... :hammer:
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Life is good.

Got a call yesterday on a Craig's list want ad I had running.

I was looking for an engine for the 2100 van cat.

A fella had the front Sub frame off a 1977 Camaro with a Chevy 305 and a TH 350 Tranny.

Runs and seems fine.

It looks like it has a story to tell too.

The block is indeed a 305.

Block is blue, heads and Valve covers are black, timing cover is Chevy Orange, pan is blue....


Somebody been into it.

Complete from fan to tail shaft and pan to carburetor.

Starter, alternator, water pump....pulleys....

The Fluid in the TH350 is nice and pink too...

Eventually I will get into both of these units.....but for now a washemup and that's gonna be it.

I need to make some lifting brackets for both the tranny and the front of the engine to allow me to pick the entire package up level and sit it in the cat with the skid steer.

We wiggled the critter up onto the trailer with a chain and a come along.

The driveway was on a pretty good decline, but one flat tire kept things from getting wild on the downgrade.

So.....Kitty got's an engine and tranny..

Took some pics and tossed the frame on Craig's list

Someone is in need of a Camaro sub frame that's in good shape....

Took a bit of time l;ate this afternoon and started pruning all the crap off the engine.

The carb is an old Q jet and pretty sad looking.

I am thinking about a Holley Spread bore with electric choke.

The engine has the old mechanical fuel pump...

I love it.

Will remove the electric in tank high pressure pump in the van and convert things to a simple suction tube...Probably add an inline electric pump to prime the system......


This setup is gonna require the power pack be removed to do any work on some stuff....

The starter should be removable through the 2100's starter access hole in the RH side of the tub....may have to make the hole a tad bigger ?????


Great deal on a complete power pack..

This engine is/was an LG4
305 4 barrel carb....It may have had dual exhaust too....but that cat is gonna get 5 inch side pipes....because I can.
 

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Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
I would rather have a 350 or 400 but the small block chevy is one of the greatest engines ever and like the 1600 vw engine parts are every where and affordable
 

olympicorange

Active member
…….. SBC power,.. the 307 was the most underated engine of that era ,... it was 200 h.p,... out of the crate. a sleeper . and the 305 was thirsty ….
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
YUUUUUP....The mighty mouse motor. :smile:

I grabbed this deal simply because it was an assembled package (Runs)
So many engines listed for sale are "Yeah...it ran when I pulled it out"

With much stuff missing like the flex plate, accessory brackets, yada yada yada.

The LG4 305 was rated at 170hp...although not a screamer or a torque monster it will get the project powered up...

The best part was the super cheap $325 price tag.....and the very real possibility of selling off the sub frame and recouping some of the $$$$ maybe all of it.

Yesterday I got the engine off the trailer and parked near the cat.
Ripped off all the extra junk and got the power pack ready to come off the cradle.
Motor mount bolts all out and all the wires and hoses are now on the junk pile with the crap that came out of the 2100...

Figured out a nice lifting rig to pick up the entire package LEVEL.

Stopped off at the local steel supply and got some square tubing and a few things.

The engine had a single lift lug on the Left front top of the intake....headed to the U pull it yard and scared up one more to allow the rig to hook up at both front corners and the at the rear of the tranny.....


The new front mount I ordered arrived last night on the Little brown truck....:clap:

Here in a bit I will head down and get started on the lift rig.

Gonna add a slipper tube on the lift rail to allow things to be adjusted for a perfect balance.

This should make the install into the cat a walk in the park.

Sadly...from what I am seeing with this is that working on things is not gonna be real handy once the entire Cat is assembled

Seems that this scenario is a common malady with a lot of cats..

We will see as things move ahead......

I can see an access hole in the tub to allow starter access though...

Nice thing about using the mouse motor....at a later date after things are at least operational but more or less complete, a fresh 350 can be put together and replace the little 305.......


As I have mentioned a few times before....any time I have the possibility of buying something for the project and then selling off unwanted/unneeded parts and recouping $$$$$ I am all over it.
 
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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Got after building the lift rig for the small block this morning.....

A bit of measuring, cutting and welding...

Decided on an adjustable lift point to get things just right.

Took about an hour and a half to cut and fab up the rig, get the lift chains all cut and things hooked up.

I had the rig hooked on the tractor just to get things right, but decided to try a lift and WOW....THE UNIT CAME OUT PERFECTLY LEVEL.

Dragged the Camaro frame off and got it out of the way...

Opened up the box of goodies that came.....Nice stuff.

Measured things up and got ready to cut the mount to length....but dinner got in the way....YUM YUM Home made spaghetti ....:thumbup:

Reading over the paperwork that came with the engine mount....then after thinking about things....the rear tranny mount that came in the Cat is gonnna need to be modified.....Same company makes the rear tranny mount too.

Decided to just order one.

Be here in a few days..

These two mounts will make a very clean setup....

Just need to drill holes in the tub is all.

I want to get the tub washed out now while I am waiting for the tranny mount..

Once the mount is here the power pack can be dropped in and I can start getting the crankshaft angle set to match the pinion angle in the OC12.


I want the engine as low as possible, but the driveline angle has got to be right in the groove.

The driveshaft has two double cardan joints, so angle rules can be broken without much consequence....but I want the shaft to run as smooth as a baby's butt.....


The shaft is a two piece unit...the front section has a slip yoke with a single cardan joint that goes into the tranny then a short shaft to the carrier bearing... then a slip yoke to the first double cardan joint (Constant velocity) then the second shaft to the rear double cardan joint to the flange that bolts to the OC12 (Custom diffy flange on the OC12 to mate with the CV shaft)


This shaft is a stock unit from mid to late 90's S10 extreme pickup.

The plan is to use the shaft as is to keep it a stock off the shelf part..

There were issues with these shafts as they came from GM....mostly the fact that many joints did not get the center ball greased and owners never greased them....

The CV center ball must be greased every 30K or so.

When I pulled the shaft apart the center balls were dry as a bone with zero sign that they had ever been greased.

Rebuilt now and should be sweeeeeet.


Weather is going in the toilet....so not sure what will get done over the next few days.

If the rain is not terrible....maybe drag out the big hot washer and go after the tub..
 

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Sno-Surfer

Active member
Looking at your last picture with the tarp over the engine, what's the vehicle behind the engine in the trees?
Been enjoying your work, ideas and all your energy and looking forward to seeing this take shape. :thumbup:
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
1995 Suburban 2500 4X4 With 454 power.

We call it "The big mule"

We use it to haul the trailer around and drag chit home...

Mostly we use it in the winter time to haul the trailer and the dumpster to get nut shells for the pellet stoves

3 YARD DUMPSTER ON THE CAR HAULER
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
SNO-SURFER
Thank you....

Seems that no matter what I do, it ends up that I have to take on another SUB PROJECT to get things done.. (Building the engine lift)

Raining this morning...arrrrrgh

I pushed the big hot washer out near the shop door, and once this little spritz is over I'm gonna go after the cat.

Even after mucking out the tub with a shovel and then a big putty knife it's still yucky in there.

I really want to get the engine set in and figure out the locations for the two mounts and get them located.

While the diffy is still in the cat I have a good reference to set the power pack to.

I have a feeling that once the diffy comes apart it will be a while getting it all cleaned up and new bearings and such installed...so decided to get the basics on the engine/trans location done..

There will no doubt be down time with the diffy while parts are ordered and coming...

So I will be able to work on other things with the engine and such.

The front axle is tweaked and needs to come out and be straightened....more work......:hammer::hammer:
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Surfer...

We are almost neighbors :thumbup:

I am about 15 minutes North of Newberg on Chehalem Mt.

If ya get down this way let me know....y'all are welcome to stop by for a visit...
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Raining....wet out....great day to wash out the cat.

Dragged out the big Landa 4-2000 MG unit and went after the cat.

Cat is pretty clean....I am wet and filthy now.

All the dark places in the tub are where the 2000 psi @180 F water blew the paint off...or rusty spots.

Eventually I want to paint the tub in and out..
Likely use Rustoleum and call it good.

Not sure on the color.

Maybe a neutral color that can go with whatever color Van we end up with.

Something that makes it easy to see in the tub....

Definitely not a real fan of the orange for this cat.

Sure gonna be nice to not get coated with greasy goop every time I get close to things to try and do something.. :clap:

Likely not going to blow off the engine/trans just yet....I don't want to blow any water into the engine with the high pressure.

Depending on what shakes out...the bare bones minimum I am going to do to the engine is to clean it off well and replace the soft plugs.....

These suckers will no doubt be corroded inside and could be ready to leak.

Looking at the old trans mount and the idea that it might make a really swell mount for the center support bearing occurred to me...:smile:

The center support has to mount in the tub, and the old cross member will easily move back a couple feet....Drill some holes and bolt it in.. :hammer::hammer:

With all the stuff removed from the tub the poor thing is looking like Swiss Cheese with all the open bolt holes...

Ahhh well...... Custom stuff that's made over usually has extra holes.
 

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alryA

Well-known member
Thanks for posting photos of your project. Bully frames are 100% open on the bottom but the cab is a separate box. But I'm sure you know that..
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Actually I have not had any experience with the Bully cats.

I know they are hydrostatic drive which simplifies things a bit.

Not needing a mechanical drive shaft and the planetary drive differential really makes a big difference.

I sort of like the enclosed body tub though....keep the crud out of things.



The Thiokol 3700 Hydromaster was the next incarnation of the big groomers from Thiokol/LMC/DMC after the 2100 Packmaster
Very similar drive to the Bully.
 

KickerM

Active member
Site Supporter
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I think engine to tranny to drive shaft to diff is way simpler....The 3700 is simple in theory....I.e. Engine drives pump, pump powers Hyd motor; but that’s where the simplicity ends. Having had to reconstruct a 3700CF, there are numerous Hydraulic lines for Forward/Reverse, Pilot, Charge Port, Return, Summing, Balancing, Restriction, Hi/Low Swash Plate, and Parking Brake...and they all have to go through various valve bodies to help confuse the flow alongside the dozens of auxiliary hydraulic hoses and bodies/valves just to make it easier!!!
Here’s the Main Hydraulic System of the 3700C
23ad2d1fbb3e34bbb5d28d9bb7b78710.jpg
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
You nailed it Kicker "In theory"

I have not worked on a Hydro cat, but have had my hands into the skid steer loaders which are similar in operation...

I am not a fan of of all the oil.

I did look BRIEFLY at a used 3700 and it was a brief glance.

Now we can look at the newer Hydro machines with all the added computer systems that are on them.....OMG Noooooooooooooooooooooooo way..


That schematic looks like the one for the latest computer CPU ...Well maybe not quite......

A hydro cat is definitely not the route to go for the budget cat owner for sure...

Once the pumps, motors and valves start getting tired there is a funny sucking noise that starts up......IT IS YOUR WALLET HEADING INTO A VACUUM.

Just the simple hydrostatics on a skid steer can be very spendy for sure..

Ah yess...much good to say about keeping things simple..

We can see where things have gone with our pickups and cars (And even heavy equipment)

If you don't have a PHD in computer science and a big $$$$$$$ diagnostics tool....forget trying to fix anything on the later rigs.

This is the reason I am trying to keep my cat build using simple stuff like the old school HEI ignition, a reliable carburetor and a non electronic transmission....

The ignition is pretty simple....Keep a spare cap (Large type with coil in the cap) and a module in the on board parts box.

Good old Holley Carb too

A stand alone fuel injection would be way cool.... (Work sweet in high angle and rough bouncy applications) but starting down that path scares me..

Something that's tough to deal with if it fails out in the boonies...
 
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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Got the Skid steer up here next to the cat to see about hanging the engine in the tub for a quicky look see...

Nope...not gonna gitterdone....Cat is too wide and the skid steer will not reach the center.

OK....as I mentioned earlier...seems as though there is always a side project needed to make stuff happen.

Scrounged around in the shed and found some pieces of channel and tubing.

Put on my Rube Goldberg hat and went after an extension to give us an extra couple feet of reach.

Ended up with a pretty good extension...The chain and D ring secures it so it cant flip loose.

1 ton Yale air hoist is a sweetheart for sitting engines in rigs.

There is a piccy of it hanging on the Skid steer back several pages.

The hoist has a throttling valve to allow very slow up and down travel of the chain too....or fast up and down.....


Got the new engine mount trimmed to fit in the cat...

Going to make a 1/4" shim plate for each side to allow the mount to be easily removed from the tub.

Once the engine is located the bolt holes can be drilled and the end caps on the mount can be welded in place

The trans mount is on order and should be here by weeks end or so.....lets hope.

In the mean time I think we can go for a test lift and fitting to see how it looks in the tub...

Should allow for some ideas to coalesce as to how things are going to come together.

Maybe now some real Cat work can happen..

I am thinking that the lift extension for the skid steer can help when removing the OC12 too......

May need a lift attachment to allow the hoist to hook on the Diffy.....

We shall see....
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
OK....Got some real honest work done on the cat today...

Rigged up the engine on the air hoist and cranked that bad boy skyward.

Sat the beast on the side rail and did a test fitting of the new engine mount.

I had given thought to modifying the new mount and using the original Camaro motor mounts.

An hour of fiddling with the mounts and looking at things and it became obvious that the new Trans Dapt mount was pretty good right out of the box....

Bolted that unit on the engine and then got busy getting the engine into the tub for the first time.

OMG.....SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.

Plenty of room all the way around to get to things like spark plugs, wires, starter (Will need an access hole in the tub....make the one there bigger.

Got the engine sitting on blocks to allow it to be as low as possible without hitting the floor of the tub.

The engine mounts are very close to the original mounts that held the big Ford 391.

Got things spot on front to back and side to side...

Tomorrow I need to get the S10 2 piece drive shaft in the tub and see if the length is going to work right.

I have hopes that the shaft can fit in it's "stock" length.

That would save $$$$ and extra work.

If the shaft length is good to go then I will check the angles on the shaft to see if we are even close.

If need be the engine/trans can go fore/aft a bit to make things fit....

Once these items are in order the next thing will be to transfer the front engine mount holes with a transfer punch and then drill them.

I want to install a 1/4" shim between the end of the mount (4 bolt flange) and the tub.

The original mount holes are right around the new holes and the old holes can be drilled through the shim plates (Help add stability)

The old Packer has more damned holes in it than you can shake a stick at.....

Not sure what I want to do with all the extra holes.

Some are just going to get bolts put back in....others might get welded up ??????

Starting to actually look like something good is happening... :thumbup:

One thing that is starting to become obvious....by the time the engine is actually located and the van is mounted high enough to clear the engine and other gear....this bad boy is gonna be a tall beast.

I got a call today regarding another track.

We shall see wassssup with that.

Going to leave the old girl in the big 57" shoes for now.

Just way too much $$$$$$ and work at this juncture.

I can revisit the tracks later and worry about a narrower set.

The big FAT BUTT look gonna be cool.....:thumbup:

Just a side note.

Thinking about painting the inside of the tub a light gray (Silver) to make it easier to see in there to work on stuff.

Paint the outside of the tub and the frame FLAT BLACK.

With this color scheme any van color will look great......

Maybe paint the wheels all silver.....
 

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