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FF and liberal members vs. conservative members.

jpr62902

Jeanclaude Spam Banhammer
SUPER Site Supporter
The following remarks are not moderator comments!

Nothing scientific, just some personal conclusions from my observations and experiences here and elsewhere.

The FF membership seems to view things largely from the conservative side of the aisle. There has been a recurring comment that liberal views are not welcome here. I don’t necessarily agree with that, but admittedly, some liberal views get pretty harsh criticism here. But so do some conservative views.

As for liberal members not feeling welcome here, I can’t speak to another’s mindset, but I can say that personally, I want to read those views that are different than mine. I also want to read the information that supports those different views, so I can reach my own conclusions.

I’ve enjoyed that exercise very much and have learned some things over the last few years. Some threads that come to mind involve topics like:
  1. The Catholic church’s views on stem cell research;
  2. The sources\causes of the stock market plunge over the last few years;
  3. The Ricci v. Destefano case;
  4. The definition of "natural born citizen;"
  5. The SCOTUS decisions in Heller and the Chicago 2nd Am. cases;
  6. The AZ immigraton statute;
  7. The healthcare debate, and;
  8. Social Security solvency.
It seems that a lot of hostility surfaces when the information on which one’s conclusions are based is either: not posted, or; posted, but not read by the critics of the op’s conclusions.

I experienced some pretty hostile reactions on another website that is much more liberal than FF. The topic was gay marriage. I posted my view that I don’t think gay marriage should enjoy the same legal benefits as "traditional marriage." I also noted that I couldn’t care less about whatever relationships two people want to engage in, just don’t ask for gummint benefits. I cited recent SCOTUS decisions, and conclusions from the other side’s arguments that would not be reasonable for the vast majority of folks. I got pasted. No one commented on the information that I posted, they just likened me to a person in support of slavery. It eventually wound up with one poster referring to me as a "trolling ass." I haven’t posted there since.

Just thought I’d post my $.02.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
I posted about Obama wanting more gun law enforcement and a new member posted he would actually vote for Obama if he fixed the gun violence problem. I did not offer to shoot his ass!. Does this mean I am being more liberal?:whistling:
 

Cowboy

Wait for it.
GOLD Site Supporter
Interesting thread . Personally I sure dont claim to know as much as some here & I like learning from others opinions, i dont care which side they beleive in IF they are backed up with anything other then just an opinion .

I consider myself more in the middle then anything & both sides are greedy and only looking out for theirselves and dont seem to care whats good for the folks that elected them . :hammer:

The left seem to want everyone to be government dependent & have the rich pay for it . The right want to protect the rich for their own good , but both sides are the only ones benefitting from it & neither is willing to due a damn thing to come together to fix things . Just bicker, argue and throw temper tantrums like a bunch of little kids . Neither side have our best interest in mind & they all to seem to be blinded by greed .

As far as the bickering on the forums, I see the ones that seem to steer to the left only defending their leaders and accepting whatever the hell they do with nothing to back up a lot of the things they form their opinions on , other then Well its been going on for years & so & so did this so its his fault .

The ones that seem to steer to the right or in the middle ( Like myself )just seem to be more pissed off about both sides & just want shit to get fixed & out from under so much government control . No one seems to have any answers how to fix things or what could be done, but I have seen more sensible ideas from the conservatives on this forum then anyone else .

Bottom line is we need to do some house cleaning with elections but with all the freebie wanting people & illegals being allowed to vote & continue draining our resources that aint likelly to happen in my lifetime .

Bottom line is were fucked and theres no way out, its only going to go downhill from here & its all caused by greed & power hungry assholes that keep getting voted in , IMHO . :ermm:

Oh Yea , thats my two bits for what its worth .
 

ki0ho

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
For the most part Im with JPR ....most of the time Im amused at the libs....and their antics..trying to prove what I consider the indefenceable [sp] ...but it is fun to watch......one thing though...Cowboy I wish ya would be more outspoken about how ya truly feel....:yum:...give em hell.....:yum:...time for me to hit the shop....Later Jerry...
 

mak2

Active member
JPR you havent posted somewhere because they called you a "trolling ass?" Geeze, that is kinda like terms of endearment when it comes to any liberal thought around here. Again, it is so obvious it should be able to go without saying. Almost anyone who has any "liberal" positions are "ran off". Of couse it is not because of hte position, but they are roundly harrassed until they just leave, or get pissed off and get banned for something else. If they are so welcome, where the hell are they? I only have two liberal positions....I am nowhere near a lib......ah, anyway, I didnt bring it up.

In short, there is more harassment of anyone with a different opinion on this forum than on any other forum I ahve ever been on. I just hang around because I like it, I guess. Probably the same reason I keep marrying red heads, glutton for punishment.
 

loboloco

Well-known member
JPR you havent posted somewhere because they called you a "trolling ass?" Geeze, that is kinda like terms of endearment when it comes to any liberal thought around here. Again, it is so obvious it should be able to go without saying. Almost anyone who has any "liberal" positions are "ran off". Of couse it is not because of hte position, but they are roundly harrassed until they just leave, or get pissed off and get banned for something else. If they are so welcome, where the hell are they? I only have two liberal positions....I am nowhere near a lib......ah, anyway, I didnt bring it up.

In short, there is more harassment of anyone with a different opinion on this forum than on any other forum I ahve ever been on. I just hang around because I like it, I guess. Probably the same reason I keep marrying red heads, glutton for punishment.
Mak, around here we at least try to keep the comments to the ideas presented. On other, more liberal sites, I have been called the following: nazi, baby killing monster, mindless myrmidon, racist sob, fascist, murderous cretin, heartless, and been asked if I have quit beating my wife. Oh, I have also been called an inbred redneck. This is actually quite hilarious as most of the people calling me names could not present a rational argument for anything they espoused.
 

jpr62902

Jeanclaude Spam Banhammer
SUPER Site Supporter
JPR you havent posted somewhere because they called you a "trolling ass?" Geeze, that is kinda like terms of endearment when it comes to any liberal thought around here. Again, it is so obvious it should be able to go without saying. Almost anyone who has any "liberal" positions are "ran off". Of couse it is not because of hte position, but they are roundly harrassed until they just leave, or get pissed off and get banned for something else. If they are so welcome, where the hell are they? I only have two liberal positions....I am nowhere near a lib......ah, anyway, I didnt bring it up.

In short, there is more harassment of anyone with a different opinion on this forum than on any other forum I ahve ever been on. I just hang around because I like it, I guess. Probably the same reason I keep marrying red heads, glutton for punishment.

It's not so much the "trolling ass" moniker, as it was pointless to even have the discussion. Geez, if I were that sensitive, I wouldn't be a lawyer.

I know I've disagreed with some conservative views on FF and I didn't get run off, nor did I feel harassed. But that's anecdotal ...:whistling:
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
There has been a recurring comment that liberal views are not welcome here. I don’t necessarily agree with that, but admittedly, some liberal views get pretty harsh criticism here. But so do some conservative views.

I think that you're right and unfortunately we do drive off some of our more liberal members which I think is a pity. I especially miss Vin and California. I think that they both added a lot to any discussion but we're OK, Mak is still here. I know, he says he's not but .... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: . I'd miss him if he ever quit.

What to do about it? I really don't know.

On a personal level, I stand pretty much where Cowboy does. I'm a fiscal conservative but politically I'm really middle of the road and have been known to cross over to the liberal side on some issues. I think that Cowboy said it all,

"The ones that seem to steer to the right or in the middle ( Like myself) just seem to be more pissed off about both sides & just want shit to get fixed & out from under so much government control."
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
From the time i joined here I have not seen anyone "run off." I've seen them banned (myself included) for bad behavior and name calling. I believe most people have left FF because because both sides have been steadfast in their positions, and those that left went to a place where everyone agrees with each other's viewpoints most of the time. I recall awhile back when I joined a forum and was banned on my first post because I posted a comment (nicely, if you can believe that) that was counter to the liberal opinion of the site. IMO, that's pure bullshit. FF does not ban or chase off people just because they have a differing opinion. If that were the case, mak2 would have been gone long ago. While his comments and opinions run counter to most of the members views here, his viewpoints are debated with facts and sources, and he is welcome to continue to post his opinion. Personally, I think the ones that left are a bunch of pussies who want it all their way or no way at all. Hey, what do you expect from libs anyway? JMHO
 

RedRocker

Active member
It doesn't matter if your liberal or conservative on this site unless you want to discuss politics. If you wish to go there, then you'd better have a thick skin, it's not for sissies.
If somebody leaves here over being out numbered then it's their choice, I'm not going to post at Huffpo and cry that nobody likes me. If you want agreement and you're liberal, go to a liberal site. Unfortunately, the reverse doesn't apply, lib sites usually ban people they disagree with. I like discussing politics with reasonable people, it's how I exercise my mind.
 

ki0ho

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
Gee....where to begain.....Lobo... most every thing that the libs have called ya ...coming from a lib I would take as of the highest of compliments....and stand PROUD!!!!!....and I think Ive found some common ground[well sort of] I love being married to a red head.....:w00t2:...other than that even if I do agree with him...hell will turn cold and solid before Ill let him know it!!!!

:whistling: dam live is fun!!!!!!! Just wish I could effect Mak like JEV dose!!!!!:w00t2::clap::tiphat: sure glad I turned this back on for a min.....
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
GOLD Site Supporter
The ones that seem to steer to the right or in the middle ( Like myself ) just seem to be more pissed off about both sides & just want shit to get fixed & out from under so much government control .

:thumb:

Almost anyone who has any "liberal" positions are "ran off".

In short, there is more harassment of anyone with a different opinion on this forum than on any other forum I have ever been on.

I don't think that's true Mak.
I can think of one member whom I absolutely adore and still have a lot of respect for, and that is California.
If you'll recall, around the time of the presidential campaign, many of us were backing McCain/Palin, some of us were also having some hope that Obama would prove himself to be a good leader.
I spent time discussing how I felt torn and sitting on the fence with Cali in PM, and he certainly did take the time to give me a lot of advice because that's the kind of man he is.
A gentleman who cares about his country and the folks who live here.


I agree with Red too.
If you want to discuss politics here, you'd better have thick skin, or at least know what you're talking about.
 

SShepherd

New member
:thumb:
If you want to discuss politics here, you'd better have thick skin, or at least know what you're talking about.

you got it

I don't have a problem with any logical debate. State your position and back it up with something-- anything except, " I feel.." or, "because I said so". Don't make it personal with little pissy name calling jabs and gross generalizations. Be a mature adult.
 

grizzer

New member
I don't recall posting but read the queers in the military threads fascinating and finding queers know who the queers are.\

It usually takes a 2x4 to get my attention.
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
GOLD Site Supporter
Back to Mak's post--
I seriously doubt Cali was "ran off".
I'd wager that he simply threw his hands in the air and chose not to be here posting any longer..

The thing is, when debates get heated around here, I'd much rather they get heated over good discussion and a personal view vs copy and paste links and.. umm yeah.. that nasty name calling.

Ya gotta admit, when Vin, Cali and CB were still here, the debates were interesting and this place was always lit up like a Christmas tree..
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
Back to Mak's post--
I seriously doubt Cali was "ran off".
I'd wager that he simply threw his hands in the air and chose not to be here posting any longer..

The thing is, when debates get heated around here, I'd much rather they get heated over good discussion and a personal view vs copy and paste links and.. umm yeah.. that nasty name calling.

Ya gotta admit, when Vin, Cali and CB were still here, the debates were interesting and this place was always lit up like a Christmas tree..
I stop in at Vin's forum from time to time, and don't see much interesting activity there. What's to discuss when everyone thinks the same? Hey, if that's what makes them happy, who are we to argue with that? Some folks are very content in boredom and complacency. As for Cali, good riddance to him. He was the only person to ever give me negative reps because I adamantly refuted his viewpoint. "Don't let the door hit you in the ass, Cali!"

JMHO, and not necessarily the viewpoint of the owner or sponsors of this website.
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
GOLD Site Supporter
Some may think the same about FF.. "what's to discuss when everyone (or nearly everyone) thinks that same", as far as politics go.

I can't stop in at Vin's forum, but I can view it.

Haha, Cali gave me neg reps before as well and even chewed me out, but we came to an understanding over time.

I'd rather get that from someone intelligent, than someone who only jumps on a forum to stir you-know-what..
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Please refrain from talking of members who no longer participate here on FF.
Thanks for your cooperation
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
Well...... I consider myself liberal in many ways and have stated that before . I also go Conservative on some issues . No body has ran me off ......yet . People ,we all need to look at the issue we are discussing .

I am willing to bet there are many folks here on FF with closer ideas and opinions than they honestly admitt . I have sided with Mak and I have disagreed with him . Thats what makes this world go around .

The problem developes when some knothead is personally bashing everyone else to make his point instead of staying focused on the issue . I do not care how you feel or vote ,but personal attacks for my right to express my opinion with respect ,will not be tolerated .
And that is one of the jobs of the Mod team here . Bullying did not work in the playground with me and it don't work here .

Since I have been a Mod here I can honestly stay that no member has been banned for their Liberal or conservative opinion , that I know of .If someone is banned ,it is after a clear decision based on much discussion by the staff about the offense . Some may have left of their own accord , but never banned .

JMO
 
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Galvatron

Spock and Galvatron < one and the same
Yes i may be a Lesbian but my views still count even though i am a robot:yum::yum::yum:

Tell me different and i may get drunk:yum:

Cant take different views.....stay out of the debate :hammer::hammer::hammer:

Of all the friends i have your the first:unsure::yum::yum::yum:
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Please refrain from talking of members who no longer participate here on FF.
Thanks for your cooperation

Sorry Boss Man, but you've lost me on this one.

I'm sure that PG wouldn't be be saying "Sorry" if I point out that Bobcat was mentioned in a current thread and that he's not a "participating member" here on FF although some of us do miss him.

Now, members who were banned or otherwise tossed off the board, I have no problem with but members who voluntarily decided that they wanted to stop contributing ... that's a different matter. JMHO.
 

jpr62902

Jeanclaude Spam Banhammer
SUPER Site Supporter
Sorry Boss Man, but you've lost me on this one.

I'm sure that PG wouldn't be be saying "Sorry" if I point out that Bobcat was mentioned in a current thread and that he's not a "participating member" here on FF although some of us do miss him.

Now, members who were banned or otherwise tossed off the board, I have no problem with but members who voluntarily decided that they wanted to stop contributing ... that's a different matter. JMHO.

Frank, the point of Doc's comment was that we should not disparage members, by name, who have chosen to leave FF. A post that did this, as well as others that may trigger continuing discussion of FF members (by name) who have left, were removed so that this type of thing doesn't continue.

I've since restored the posts, so that everyone's comments will put Doc's request in the proper context.

Doc is not forbidding discussion of members who choose not to post here.

It is, however, bad etiquette to talk about them badly "behind their backs" so to speak. We're above that here.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
JPR, I'm sorry but that's not the way that I read it.

I posted a comment that said that I missed the contributions of a couple of ex-members and I stand by that.

I don't see any point in lambasting members who no longer participate and I would probably agree with striking posts that did so. I'm not even going back to check on who said what about whom. As I said, there's no point in it. There's an old Scottish expression that says, "Let's not talk ill of the departed".

Thanks for the clarification. I think that in a round about way, we are saying the same thing.
 
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jpr62902

Jeanclaude Spam Banhammer
SUPER Site Supporter
Disclaimer: The following are not moderator comments.

My whole point in starting this thread was to foster a more civil and enlightening exchange in this D & D forum. So far, it seems I've failed.

Ask yourself, "Does what I'm about to post, add anything of substance to this thread?" versus, "This should piss 'em off!" This forum is called "Debate and Discussion" for a reason. If you want to categorically lambaste the other side of the political aisle, put it in the Rant & Rave forum. If you have some insight, and can back it up, great!

Furthermore, if you can't back up what you post here, expect to be lambasted. The idea is debate and discussion, not rant, rant, rant.

And just so I can say that I'm walking my talk, here are some threads where I was posting from the left side of the spectrum. I do not feel that I was "run off" or harassed in any way:

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=27214&highlight=abortion+doctor

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=38371&highlight=sotomayor

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=23488&highlight=macdonald's+coffee

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=34492&highlight=trial+lawyers

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=27253&highlight=ricci
 
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