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DTV not a happy camper

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Our local area decided that even though the DTV deadline was extended they would make the change on the original date, today. But I was all set to go, I had a new TV and got the converter box for my other two TV's. I was a happy camper because we got about 6 channels more than we ever had. Our local channels were already broadcasting in DTV but today was the big switch over and they dropped the analog broadcast. Tonight we come home, not one channel. We knew we had to do a new scan and now we have about 3 channels on each TV and have to mess with the antennas to get them. I am not a happy camper. I was happy before today but not today.

Oh and by the way when your area gets close to making the change get ready for all the banners going across your TV. Last Saturday when the Daytonna 500 was on you could not even see the race because of the banners. People were calling in pissed but by law before and after yes after the switch they have to put the banners up. Our government tax dollars at work making such a dumb ass law.:hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer:
 

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
GOLD Site Supporter
Instead of complaining about what you don't have why not be thankful for what you have?



:poke: :rolf2:













:hide:
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
It appears the era of free TV is fading fast. Do you suppose the cable company lobbyists and the Satellite TV lobbyists had anything to do with this new law? I've never heard of a good reason why analog should be outlawed.
 

jwstewar

Active member
It appears the era of free TV is fading fast. Do you suppose the cable company lobbyists and the Satellite TV lobbyists had anything to do with this new law? I've never heard of a good reason why analog should be outlawed.

The 2 biggests reasons I heard was so the Government could make money off reselling the spectrum currently used by the TV stations. The other one is to make room for Emergency channels. This will hopefully allow Police, Fire, etc. to get more airwaves so they can communicate together. I guess there are a lot of dead spaces/interferences in the spectrums they currently use.
 

Gatorboy

Active member
I've never heard of a good reason why analog should be outlawed.

Yeah, and let's bring back vinyl records and the teletype machines! How about the Pony Express, and telegrams too?

Analog TV is dead -- stop living in the past.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
They never had to outlaw vinyl records. And I understand some still prefer them, and LP's are seeing a resurgence.
Why can't analog die a natural death. Do we need congress outlawing it this way? Seems to me it just cuts out the smaller broadcaster in favor of the big guys.
 

jwstewar

Active member
They never had to outlaw vinyl records. And I understand some still prefer them, and LP's are seeing a resurgence.
Why can't analog die a natural death. Do we need congress outlawing it this way? Seems to me it just cuts out the smaller broadcaster in favor of the big guys.

Actually we did, because we had passed the laws that required them to operate in those spectrums. Unlike the 8-track and cassette tape, Congress didn't require them to be in all cars.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
I'm pretty happy with DTV - we get a better picture and more channels. I think we are lucky that Portland, OR is a big "antennae" market so local stations are making sure they do it right.
 

benspawpaw

New member
we have cable and didnt lose or gain anything but i cant tell any difference in the picture but that may be because my tv is 8 years old.i do plan to get an antennae and converter box as soon as i get my coupon and see if i get more
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
we have cable and didnt lose or gain anything but i cant tell any difference in the picture but that may be because my tv is 8 years old.i do plan to get an antennae and converter box as soon as i get my coupon and see if i get more

If you have cable then why would you need the converter box? The converter box is only for people that use antennaes.
 

Gatorboy

Active member
we have cable and didnt lose or gain anything but i cant tell any difference in the picture but that may be because my tv is 8 years old.i do plan to get an antennae and converter box as soon as i get my coupon and see if i get more

You won't see a difference -- unless you upgrade to HDTV and view the HD channels.
 

benspawpaw

New member
if i get an antennea and box i should get some channels that are not on my cable lineup i think if not i will take the stuff back for refund even tho it wont be in hd i should still be able to see them
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Like I said I don't understand why when we have had DTV for months and was very happy with the way everything was working and now after they got rid of the analog our DTV channels don't work anymore. Sounds like more people are pissed than just me.


KTTC Ends it's Analog Signal


After you read the story then go down and read the comments. The last comment the guys lives only 12 miles from the station which mean didley as I am sure the towers are not at the station. The towers are actually on 5 miles from our place and we don't get this station anymore or many of the other ones we use to get with the dot 1 extension.


murph
 

danocheese

New member
Actaully this cause cabel compaines a bunch of money. We have to deliver both the Digital feed and the analog feed. More equipment to buy from the mandate. The pictureon some channels will be a bit better. We now get a digtial feed that is not suceptible to interfernce from impulse noise. The issue is that with digital it is there or nothing no snowey pictures when temp inversion hits. Also THrci keep rescanning your box. When the broadcasters turned down there analog they move the digital signal to the old analog position. Not in all cases. We pull Siuox falls stations here and spent about 12 hours realigning everything monday. What sucks is we are supposed to carry the Twin Cities channels and the digital signals are off mroe than they are on. Where youlive you should be able to pull quite a few channles. I can pull Eau Claire WI ch 13 some days. We pull Man Kato Sioux City Sioux Falls and appelton MN pretty well.

The whole thing was a mis managed project. The industry was forced to spend a bunch of money. We shut our translator off. Broadcasters are going the way of 8 track players. I was tlaking to one last week and they feel there will jsut be national NBC ABC CBS and FOX station int he future. THere is not enough advertising dolalrs out there to support all the stations.

The days of Free TV are over. KARE11 charges you if you have Dish or cable I pass the fee along to our custoemrs so does DISH.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
I bought the converter box and an indoor antennae for our guest room last week and it barely picks anything up.

The TV in the basement that gets used the most is hooked up to a big antennae in the attic and it is doing pretty well (except for NBC which is flaky but still works on analog)

Summary - If you don't have a good antennae then you are probably going to hate DTV.

I would suggest a trip to:

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

and follow their instructions. Buy the best directional antennae you can afford and make sure you point it properly (it made a huge difference for me even moving it about 10 degrees). I don't recommend the indoor antennas - I've never had much luck with them.
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
That's an excellent resource. I learned a lot.

I have two large antennas on one mast that have been up there forever, one aimed down to SF/SanJose/ even Monterrey sometimes, 60-90 miles, and the other aimed SE for local stations, plus Sacramento/Stockton/Concord in the background(50-80 miles). No preamp on either. I flip a manual switch between them as needed.

I tried the new DTV converter and got exactly one local station that is literally line-of-sight instead of the dozen mostly fuzzy stations we have seen for years. Per Consumer Reports my converter is one of their recommended ones (ChannelMaster) so that's not the problem.

The map on AntannaWeb looks like a hand of cards, with 18 potential transmitters spread out over a 160 degree arc.

I think it's time to redesign my whole project!
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Sounds like you need one of those antenna rotators. Although they kill the fun of channel surfing. ;)
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
I'm impatient. Rotators don't help to watch two programs at once! :D

The upper antenna has a rotator, but I wore it out long ago (or perhaps tore the wires out of it).

Since there's another large antenna lower down the mast, it will take all day when I replace the whole mess. I can reach the lower antenna from the roof but I will need to lay the mast over to work on the upper one. I doubt I'll start that project any time soon.
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Antennaweb.org is a good one along with TVfool.com. According to both I won't be able to get out local company as the tower is 40 miles away. Our local TV station told me didn't think I would get good results even with an outdoor antenna. I have a power boosting one in the house right now and it does not work. What pisses me off for the last month we had DTV. They shut down Analog and moved the DTV channel to another number and now it does not work. The guy argued with me and told me it could not have ever worked. :hammer: :hammer:
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
For the record, I have never found a "power boosting" antenna that works. They all suck. I've had indoor and outdoor antennas with "power boosting" features and they never seemed to help.

I live around 25 miles from all the towers and on the wrong side of the top of the mountain (just peaking over).

The only thing that helped significantly was a big outdoor antenna (mine is in my attic) pointed in the right direction.

pRS1C-5411513w345.jpg


The part that sucks is that you have to buy the antenna and set it up to see if it will work.
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
I think the theory on antenna boosters, the ones that actually amplify the signal, is that there is an initial signal/noise ratio put on the wire from the antenna, but then the wire picks up more noise before it reaches your tv. Plus there is some signal loss in a long input wire. So amplifying the raw antenna output at the antenna results in a better S/N ratio measured at the TV. But in theory the amplifier can add its own noise which detracts from its effectiveness. I have found in practice that an amplifier sometimes helps, but only slightly. Try switching its power supply off/on to see what works best.

Then there is the indoor distribution amplifier that can provide several tvs an adequate signal strength. That's all they do; they don't help the S/N ratio at all.

I read somewhere that antenna science is a cross between witchcraft and making just the right tail for a kite. Theory helps a little then it's all cut-n-try. Another principle that isn't obvious: In one test, signal strength varied cyclically as the antenna was raised up its mast. And different stations had different ideal antenna heights above the terrain. That researcher concluded that you need at least 25 ft above a roof to reduce this effect.

Any ham radio specialists out there? What should we be doing?
 

mtntopper

Back On Track
SUPER Site Supporter
The real truth to a digital signal is that it is line of sight where in the past analog signals actually can somewhat move with the curvature of the earth, up and down mountains/hills by reflection. Analog signals pass up and down somewhat as we learned the hard way with our analog cell phone signal we lost this fall. Digital is mostly line of sight and an obstacle in the path may block the signal completely. They told us if you received an analog signal, digital should work just as well. Guess what, after they screwed us over with the change they came back and said we were a fringe area and never should of had any signal. That is the way they pass the buck down the line when things do not work out. I am not even going to try the DTV because I am sure the 3 local stations signals are now lost in space and aliens can see my local TV but I can not....:whistling:
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
Wow! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I got rained out at the ranch so I went back to town.

I set up the same model converter (Channelmaster) and Bam! 15 unique bright clear channels! Plus 3 more that seem to be robot relays of The Weather Channel or something.

I think everything I see is coming off the tower in Walnut Grove. That 's in the river delta inland from San Francisco, about where the Sacramento Valley transitions to the San Joaquin Valley. We aren't close enough to that tower to have had good reception on all its channels before.

The antenna here is a good one, in the attic, with an amplifier. We are surrounded by neighbors trees that are taller than the house, and it's raining, so I'm surprised to see much of anything.


Just for fun here's a picture showing the location of the one transmitter we could receive at the ranch, which I think is in line-of-sight. Their channel is associated with the University and I think their tower is on campus, about where those trees are sticking up out of the fog, or else on the ridge in the background. Apparently I need to improve the antenna over there. That Walnut Grove tower is some 50 miles beyond the University. It will be sweet if I can get that and all the SF stations too.

P1210511rFogInValley.JPG
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
:hammer::hammer: :beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5: :gun2_smi: :bsflag2:

TV in Family Room on the same channel as the one in the bedroom. One TV the speech is 2 seconds behind the other. Tonight on all channels the speech on any TV does not line up with the mouths.
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
I wonder if DTV has error correction like a CD, where it repeats the last good data until more good data is received.
 

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
I wonder if DTV has error correction like a CD, where it repeats the last good data until more good data is received.

then it should not have any signal during political speeches or reality shows due to lack of good data?
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Funny you brought this thread back up Andy. According to the local TV station I should never have been able to get their signal which I did until they made a total conversion. So now I don't and I am about 30 miles away from their broadcast point. Funny thing this last week-end we took our converter up to our cabin. We are now 60 miles away from their broadcast point and and I can get them. :ermm:
 
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