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1960-61 Thiokol 4t-2 questions need help

Mike8623

New member
Ok guys just bought and got home a 1960-61 Thiokol 4t-2. It doesn't run at present. The old owner told me that his son last used it and held both levers back and burned up the clutch/brake discs.

I charged up the battery and when I turn on the master switch and try to start it in neutral it just clicks, I assume that it is the solenoid and will change it out. Upon looking at the manual it appears holding both levers back (one and six position) will put the cat in low gear for traveling so to me at this point it makes no sense that holding back both levers would burn up the brake/clutch discs. I've got under the machine at the back and it appears I can just barely see the discs I believe the last owner is referring to and they look fine to me.

Anyone thinking different than me or have any other ideas on starting the machine and clutch/brake disc. The old owner did give me a bunch of new discs.

I am also trying to find exactly where the vehicle Id plate would be and where the engine id (vin) would be located. The cat has a alternator on it and I believe it should have had a generator.

so anyone out there with info or anyone that has one of these that wouldn't mind helping out a novice I would greatly appreciate the help as I travel along the path. I'll post pictures in a day or two as I get time.

One last thing, the manual say the transmission is a 3 speed, so just where is first...to the left and down or to the left and up and where is reverse?

One last thing, it looks like I am going to need a radiator, the manual says the part number is 0106022, anyone have any idea where I might one?
 
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redsqwrl

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
congratulations on graduating from: "looking to owning."

Do a search here on the forum, there is a really nice write up on the power divider.

a member here documented a rebuild and how to.

I apologize I don't recall the members name but this mellen only holds so much....

Mike
 

Mike8623

New member
OK guys more info. I got in and under the cat with a flashlight and cleaning stuff this morning.

1. The engine number appears to be 134894, at least that is what is inscribed in
large numbers on the passenger side of the block.

2. The radiator has AF-T over L on it....anyone know what this means or what
radiator will exchange?

3. On the drivers side of the tranny up high the number N8 appears under that a
ways appears T98-10, under that is WG DIV Any ideas what the numbers
mean or what type of tranny it is?

4. I also got a better look at the clutch disc on the power Converter. Looking
from the front of the machine I can see the 3rd disc on each side is toast,
crumbing away, there may be others can't see any further. Looking at
them from the back of the machine, they all look fine

What do you guys think, it looks at a minimum the Power converters will have to come out and be worked on, I ordered an solenoid can anyone give me insight on what type of radiator might interchange. Any other thoughts or info would be Greatly appreciated.
 
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MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
OK guys more info. I got in and under the cat with a flashlight and cleaning stuff this morning.

1. The engine number appears to be 134894, at least that is what is inscribed in
large numbers on the passenger side of the block.

2. The radiator has AF-T over L on it....anyone know what this means or what
radiator will exchange?

3. On the drivers side of the tranny up high the number N8 appears under that a
ways appears T98-10, under that is WG DIV Any ideas what the numbers
mean or what type of tranny it is?

4. I also got a better look at the clutch disc on the power Converter. Looking
from the front of the machine I can see the 3rd disc on each side is toast,
crumbing away, there may be others can't see any further. Looking at
them from the back of the machine, they all look fine

What do you guys think, it looks at a minimum the Power converters will have to come out and be worked on, I ordered an solenoid can anyone give me insight on what type of radiator might interchange. Any other thoughts or info would be Greatly appreciated.

Mike, what your doing is the best way to learn about your machine. Crawl, look,
All over and look at everything on your machine. It's the best way to learn.
Hell, some of us even sleep with our machines. ( or in them ) best to give her
A name like cozy,fuzzy, some just call there machines (x) like there ex wife
Because they just keep throwing money at them and they never get any better
Or go away :yum:

The tranny is a T98

Well now it's your turn we need pictures or we will hold out on you! :whistling:

The radiator amounts to size and how many rows of cooling there are all kinds
Of aluminum replacements out there like Summit racing, EBay etc.

Here is the power divider link again

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=51892

Time for you to get cozy with her now :wink:
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
names for my snow trac and Thiokol the snow trac is Little Red and the Thiokol 2100 is Brutis. I don't have to sleep with mine, my wife allows me to have more than one snow cat as long as I only have one wife.
 

Mike8623

New member
OK guys, Thanks for all that replied. I wrestled with and finally got the radiator out, I looked all over for any writing on it and the only thing is the AF-T over a Capital L on it. I've tried searching that reference in radiators with no luck, anyone out there replaced theirs and if so what did you put back in it?

My camera is charging right now so pictures tomorrow.

My major concern right now is to get it running and working, I need it to get in and out this coming winter.

I'm going to do those power converters, 2 boggie wheels the radiator and the solenoid and see what happens, while I'm at it I will change all fluids, lube it real good, change out the hoses, flush it, new coolant etc, etc.

Next year I will concentrate on cleaning it up, sanding it down and painting it and other things that need attention. this cat will not be a toy, I need it to get in and out of my place, no cat and I snow-shoe out. I'm 65 so I do not look forward to show-shoeing all winter.

Any help would be appreciated.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
OK guys, Thanks for all that replied. I wrestled with and finally got the radiator out, I looked all over for any writing on it and the only thing is the AF-T over a Capital L on it. I've tried searching that reference in radiators with no luck, anyone out there replaced theirs and if so what did you put back in it?

My camera is charging right now so pictures tomorrow.

My major concern right now is to get it running and working, I need it to get in and out this coming winter.

I'm going to do those power converters, 2 boggie wheels the radiator and the solenoid and see what happens, while I'm at it I will change all fluids, lube it real good, change out the hoses, flush it, new coolant etc, etc.

Next year I will concentrate on cleaning it up, sanding it down and painting it and other things that need attention. this cat will not be a toy, I need it to get in and out of my place, no cat and I snow-shoe out. I'm 65 so I do not look forward to show-shoeing all winter.

Any help would be appreciated.

There you go Bobcat that is why he didn't get a krusty.
 

Mike8623

New member
OK guys I got pictures will try to up load them
 

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Mike8623

New member
more pictures the first of these shows the clutch discs.
 

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Mike8623

New member
Last two pictures of the radiator
 

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Mike8623

New member
The last two pictures of the radiator
 

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MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
Thanks for the pictures,

Those sprockets need some rubber on them! It's all gone! At the least
They can be revulcanized there is a company that does those it eludes me right now who it is. But others have wrapped the profile with belting and attached it to the sprocket face before with moderate success.

Tracks do not look to bad ( after looking better I noticed maybe real bad dry rot in a photo ) look at them close

How's the engine?

How far do you need to go in the winter? 4 miles ?

I do not think you will find a radiator like that anymore but maybe,I would convert to more modern
 
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Mike8623

New member
Yes, I am focusing on the radiator, someone out there must have one of these and have replaced the radiator and have a number or make that they used, I'm going to undue the tracks and remove the sprockets here pretty quick and send them in for a redue unless someone has a set they want to sell, any tips on removing them would be appreciated, The tracks can wait until next year I hope.

I would really like to find a radiator now though!! I'm sure that radiator was used on a car, truck or tractor at some point, someone must know something.
 

Dr. Zaugg

New member
Knowing Thiokol I would bet the radiator is from a F-100 pickup of about the same vintage. I have even found some Falcon parts that were used!
 

sno-drifter

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Mike,

You have the tanks, flanges and dimensions, take it to a radiator shop and put a new core in it. You don't want to be let down out in the deep.
 

jp11

New member
Mike,

You have the tanks, flanges and dimensions, take it to a radiator shop and put a new core in it. You don't want to be let down out in the deep.

For sure. I re cored the one in my ASV. Sure, I could have bought new. I got 25% more cooling for less than 100 bucks more than a stock radiator. Find a real radiator shop. I think the one I used has been in business since the 20s!

JP
 

Mike8623

New member
Well guys since reading and looking everywhere, a lot of promising but false leads I took my radiator down to a local shop for recoring, it looks like it will cost about $400.00.

My main concern at the present are the drive sprockets. I've called about every place I could find talked about on this site and a lot of others......no one could help me. There is a place down in Tupelo Mississippi that will take a look at them and may be able to do something. The sprockets will go out this coming week. If anyone knows of somewhere that can, for sure, recoat these please let me know.,

Tomorrow I am diving into the drive clutches and taking a look and replacing some of the fiber discs.......

So that is where I am at right, the drive sprockets have me worried It was 34 here this morning and the aspen leaves are starting to turn yellow.
 

Mike8623

New member
Yes, I did speak with those folks. Surely there must be someone out there that does these sprockets?? If anyone knows FOR SURE someone that does these please let me know.
 

MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
As far as I know there was only one company that did the 4T sprockets I think
In California. Last time I had been in contact with them was about 7 years ago
I think they closed. They did the original rubber

I could create a mold to do them. But the demand is very very low and return
On a mold would most likely never happen.

When I redo mine I will use uhmw 1/2" by 3" heated and wrapped fastened in countersunk holes most likely unless someone finds a mold
 

Mike8623

New member
Thanks Boogie, There is one guy in Mississippi that can kinda redo them. He talked about putting some type of belting on them or something to that effect. Unless I hear something from someone that has a good fix for this I will be sending the wheels off to them this coming week.

Is there a tutorial on the plastic redo you're talking about or a website that speaks to it or can you go into depth on it.

When I get my sprockets back from Mississippi, I'll post a picture so everyone can see.

I would however like to find someone that can redo the whole wheel. You would think someone out there would be in the business of doing these 4t sprockets. There must be other owners out there that would make this a paying process.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
no big loss Ive seen some of their work they did for some bv 206 parts I'm not real impressed.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Yes, I did speak with those folks. Surely there must be someone out there that does these sprockets?? If anyone knows FOR SURE someone that does these please let me know.

I don't know with certainty that they are still doing these but my snowcat buddy has a 4-VL (which has a similar drivetrain to a 4T-2) and he had his sprockets recovered by a company in SLC.


It was a number of years ago that he had it done, but he said they did a very nice job and he was pleasantly surprised at the cost. The name of the company was Rubber Engineering.


I don't know if they're still in business, or if they've changed their name or if they'd even recover your sprockets, but I do think it's worth your time to make a phone call.
 

Mike8623

New member
I'll give them a call, at this point they are packaged up and ready to mail to ETK International in Canada. Tad, the owner says he can do them, although he was hard to understand as he was talking, Anyone have any experience with ETK?
 

Mike8623

New member
OK folks, I just called a Company in Salt Lake. Spoke to a Grant Anderson. He says he has made Sprockets and recoated them for Thiokol from day one almost. He says without a doubt he will do mine, one way or the other for between 200-400 each.. He says they even have some new, old stock on hand........So if anyone out there needs something it might not hurt to call these folks. This old boy sounded like he knew exactly what he was talking about from years of experience. It looks like I'll find out my sprockets are going in the mail today and I don't have to worry about Canadian Customs.

Thanks for the previous post and helping me get on to these folks.

Grip Rubber Inc.
751 S. 5500 SW
Salt Lake City, Utah 84104

Grant Anderson

I'll let you all know what happens and if all goes well I'll post pictures when they come back

Praise the Lord
 
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