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dumbing down in schools

CityGirl

Silver Member
SUPER Site Supporter
Latest in the demise of public education. This from the Dallas Independent School District changes in grading policy.


Dallas ISD defends changes in grading policy


[SIZE=-1]12:05 PM CDT on Saturday, August 16, 2008[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]By KENT FISCHER / The Dallas Morning News [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]kfischer@dallasnews.com [/SIZE]

Dallas school superintendent Michael Hinojosa and two trustees defended new classroom grading rules Friday, and urged teachers and parents to learn more about the requirements before dismissing them as misguided.
Also Online
Document: DISD letter
Document: New DISD grading policy
Blog: Dallas ISD
DISD plan to ease grading standards angers teachers


Teachers have derided the new rules as being too lenient on lazy students by requiring teachers to accept late work, give retests to students who fail and force teachers to drop homework grades that would drag down a student's class average.
But Dr. Hinojosa asked teachers and parents to consider that in the long run the rules will help more students succeed.
"We want to make sure that students are mastering the content [of their classes] and not just failing busy work," he said.
"We want students to get it right, and we want to make sure that they do get it right."
If that means teachers will be required to extend an assignment deadline, or let students retake exams, so be it, he said.
Trustee Jerome Garza also saw much in the new protocols to like.
He liked the consistency of having the same rules apply to every teacher and every student districtwide. That should help parents predict what to expect from teachers and provide some stability for children who change schools midyear. Mr. Garza also praised the rules for requiring teachers to take preventive steps, like conferring with parents, before giving students little or no credit for missed assignments.
"If we've got somebody who is beginning to fail, we've got to bring parents in before it is too late," he said.
Trustee Nancy Bingham, a former teacher, said she does not agree with the requirement that teachers accept late work with no power to impose a penalty, but she does think that students sometimes need "a safety net" that some teachers are unwilling to provide.
While she said she found most of the new rules "reasonable" she didn't think they would have much impact on truly lazy students or those who openly defy their teachers.
"If the kid is hell-bent on failing, they're going to fail anyway," she said. "But some kids need a cushion, or a safety net."
Dr. Hinojosa said the new rules are aimed, in part, at helping curb the district's alarming ninth-grade failure rate. Each year, roughly 20 percent of the district's high school freshmen fail to advance to the 10th grade. Many eventually drop out.
Dr. Hinojosa cited new research that determined ninth-graders who are flunking two or more classes in their first six weeks of high school are almost doomed to become dropouts.
"Our mission is not to fail kids," he said. "Our mission is to make sure they get it, and we believe that effort creates ability."
Teachers, though, argue that the high school failure rate has less to do with the first six weeks of ninth grade than it does with most DISD freshmen struggling to read. In 2007, 80 percent of them scored below the 40th percentile in reading on the Iowa Test of Educational Development. Yet the promotion rate out of eighth grade for that class was 98 percent.
Some teachers and parents have noted that even if the new rules lead to 100 percent passing rates on class work, students will still have to pass Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills exams to graduate.
Aimee Bolender, head of the Alliance/AFT teachers' organization, said most teachers will not support the new grading protocols.
"There is a constant shift of accountability away from the students and onto the teachers," she said.
The new rules have been sent to principals, who will present them to teachers next week.
They're the latest step in DISD's effort to standardize instruction across the district. Last school year, the trustees reaffirmed a policy that prevented teachers from giving students a grade lower than a 50 for any one grading period. The reason given was that students who fall below 50 have no hope or motivation to bring up their grades and just give up.
During the discussion, trustees asked administrators to develop standardized grading rules for elementary, middle and high school teachers. Those rules were finalized this summer.
One student thought that some students would exploit the rules knowing that doing so would come with light or no penalties.
"I'll be interested to see how teachers advertise these rules – I'm sure they won't be promoting them," said Skyline High School senior Aileen Mokuria. "This seems to teach procrastination."
Ms. Mokuria added that she found the requirement for teachers to accept late work especially odd. She recently volunteered at Skyline to mentor incoming freshmen about the ins and outs of high school.
"One of the things I told them was that it was very important to turn in your work on time," she said.
She added that students are too passive about their education.
"Students need to take the initiative and go to the teacher and ask for help," she said. "Let it come down to the student-teacher relationship."
AT A GLANCE: Grading changes

Homework grades should be given only when the grades will "raise a student's average, not lower it."
•Teachers must accept overdue assignments, and their principal will decide whether students are to be penalized for missing deadlines.
•Students who flunk tests can retake the exam and keep the higher grade.
•Teachers cannot give a zero on an assignment unless they call parents and make "efforts to assist students in completing the work."
•High school teachers who fail more than 20 percent of their students will need to develop a professional improvement plan and will be monitored by their principals. For middle school the rate is 15 percent; for elementary it's 10 percent.
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I read somewhere today that some school district's new lowest possible score is no longer 0%; it is now 50%.
Unfrickinreal.
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
Homework grades should be given only when the grades will "raise a student's average, not lower it." The problem I see with this is that there is a LOT of homework....It looks as if they don't do any seat work in class unless it's a test.
•Teachers must accept overdue assignments, and their principal will decide whether students are to be penalized for missing deadlines. Kids today have a lot on there plates compared to kids just a few years ago. They are gone from home most of the evening until just in time for showers and bed. I think they should be given a chance to make it up. I also think this is a way kids fall thru the cracks. If they can't keep up and no one seems to care then they will give up.
•Students who flunk tests can retake the exam and keep the higher grade. This is a good idea....if the test scores are low and you give them another chance then they will study the material again....what's wrong with looking it over? When I was in College I thought the open book tests were the hardest because I went thru the whole chapter back and forth looking for the answers. I knew it inside and out after that test....:yum:
•Teachers cannot give a zero on an assignment unless they call parents and make "efforts to assist students in completing the work." This is a good idea too...force parents to catch the kid before they are too deep in failing.
•High school teachers who fail more than 20 percent of their students will need to develop a professional improvement plan and will be monitored by their principals. For middle school the rate is 15 percent; for elementary it's 10 percent.I don't see anything wrong with this. If the teacher cares they will help the kid as much as possible, instead of letting them fall thru cracks and moving on to the next kid. I beleive all of this comes from the class rooms being over crowded and the teachers don't have the time to pull "one" kid out.
 

Spiffy1

Huh?
SUPER Site Supporter
Oh boy, don't get me started on this one. At the risk of over simplifying the situation: drop all the "safety nets" in school grading simultanious with dropping all the social "safety nets." It may take a few years, to really kick in, but seeing all the "cool" people starving in the streets should make for some pretty serious incentive!

With all the disipline problems gone, maybe schools could get back to,,,,,hmmmm,,,,,teaching?!?
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
Oh boy, don't get me started on this one. At the risk of over simplifying the situation: drop all the "safety nets" in school grading simultanious with dropping all the social "safety nets." It may take a few years, to really kick in, but seeing all the "cool" people starving in the streets should make for some pretty serious incentive!

With all the disipline problems gone, maybe schools could get back to,,,,,hmmmm,,,,,teaching?!?
Agreed :wink:
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I think that this is really sad.

You send your kids to school for at least 13 years to prepare them for what? ... unemployment. It comes as a shock to many that when they leave school that their employer won't take too kindly to goofing off, procrastination, missing deadlines, failing to turn up for work, etc., etc. Without discipline and self discipline we're preparing our kids for failure in life and all the other problems to our society that brings along with it.

When will these people realize that they're not doing our kids any favors by setting them up for a life of mediocrity at best, being incapable of functioning in the "real" world. Many of the problems that plague our society begins in our schools and sooner or later, we will have to do something about it.
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
The FACT is some kids are just stupid and never will do well either in school or life.

By the same token, some kids won't apply themselves until later on in life.

Some kids have horrible parents who don't give a rats butt what they do in school.

Schools need money, better grades get money, so the schools are trying to get better grades from the students even if the students really "dont get the grades".

Got to remember the real reason why schools were created in the first place, and it wasn't to get an education.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I feel for the teachers. They are put in an impossible situation. If the kids know the teacher can't fail them, has to give them a 2nd chance, can't give them a negitive score for homework assignments etc .... then the students will run all over the teacher. In the end the teachers will fold and just move the kids along like cattle. How sad. Everybody looses.

Got to remember the real reason why schools were created in the first place, and it wasn't to get an education.

Why were schools created if is wasn't for education? :confused:
 

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
I feel for the teachers. They are put in an impossible situation. If the kids know the teacher can't fail them, has to give them a 2nd chance, can't give them a negitive score for homework assignments etc .... then the students will run all over the teacher. In the end the teachers will fold and just move the kids along like cattle. How sad. Everybody looses.
already happening. Teachers get all the blame, parents and children are not held accountable for their own part of failing. The part about requiring the teacher to call the parents of every student who fails an assignment is insane when you consider the average class size is close to 30 in many districts due to budget cuts and each teacher has 6-7 classes to teach. (I won't even get into what budget cuts have done to teaching supplies!)
Now, I 'm not saying all teachers are perfect, or anything like that, frustration has created a lot of "burn outs" who should take a break for a couple of years or find a different career, but there's a reason they're getting so frustrated - and why there's such a shortage of teachers on the ground and in the pipeline.

Why were schools created if is wasn't for education? :confused:
Schools were created for education, then politicians stuck their fingers in the pie and teachers became glorified babysitters.
Teaching has such a bad reputation as a job that the ones smart enough to do it well find other jobs that have higher wages and lower time commitments. As a first year teacher, with 3 different subjects to teach, I was offered $25k for what was in reality going to be 70 hour weeks, no matter what most people think. On the flip side, the next year I was offered an entry level position reviewing medical records for $27k - and policy forbid me from even trying to take any work home.
 
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mtntopper

Back On Track
SUPER Site Supporter
I wonder how much of this new policy can be attributed to the possibility of losing federal funding through the state education system if there are too many failed students? Does the federal government limit funding to the state level if certain academic standards are not met? Just some of my thoughts on why the state may want to lower standards to get more federal dollars.

Another concern of mine is what happens to the brighter harder working students when they are put in a barrel with the ones that don't do the work. There progress has to limited by the constraints put on the teachers by the system to make sure the bottom of the barrel is not failed and the top is not allowed to progress. So in the end, we have a bunch of mediocre educated young people that are all equal when they graduate from school. Sounds to me like a democrat scheme to raise the number of demo voters................:hide:

Just some thoughts from the mountain top as I read and think about the way things are changing in many areas of our country today.......:mrgreen:.
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
Proof? Documentation to back your claim?

Do the research yourself and let me know what you come up with:D

Fact is, what something (an orgainzed social system) was intended for some time ago and how that same system is being utilized today can be a moot point as far as the origins of the system to begin with because it has nothing to due with the issues at hand (present time).

Why school systems were developed to begin with has nothing to do with the school systems of today and what we are trying to acheive as a society. I made comment about the origins of the school system to point out that as a society, sometimes we are "near sighted" as to why the "system" was created in the first place, usually caused due to the passing of time (centuries, not decades) and "social attitudes".

You never read Oliver Twist?

Another comparison would be the juvenile justice system and why that system was created.

Child labor laws would be yet another example as well as the orphanage system in the U.S.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Bottom line, to take the children out of the work force.
I could see that playing a factor in some places, but doubt it had much to do with US schools. The kids were primarily on the farm not in the work force.
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
I could see that playing a factor in some places, but doubt it had much to do with US schools. The kids were primarily on the farm not in the work force.

Your right doc, but remember, one of the biggest assests per having children and large families on the farm was the work that they could provide on the farm.

In the year 1850, do you think the average 16 year old male was in school?

Survival in the past is a lot different than survival today. That's why we have the goverment today to take care of the people that can't provide for themselves.

Apologies, at work and don't have the time to go into more detail:D
 

Cityboy

Banned
Well, I appreciate the fact that you didn't curse nor bring my personal life into your comments:thumb:

I often wonder why I waste my time replying to you......

Don't even attempt to pretend you always take the high road. Everyone here knows better.....Didn't you get banned for two weeks not long ago for your obnoxious behavior?....And now you imply you are the epitome of civility?

If you want to converse with me, please stick to the subject at hand. I have no time for your left field replies and comments that are "cute" only to you.
 
D

darroll

Guest
In Oregon they have special needs children in the class room.
Get the Federal Government out of education
 

RedRocker

Active member
I went through the DISD, graduated in 1966, I'd have to say it's
gone to HELL since then. They should run those idiots out of
town on a rail at the very least.
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
I often wonder why I waste my time replying to you......

Don't even attempt to pretend you always take the high road. Everyone here knows better.....Didn't you get banned for two weeks not long ago for your obnoxious behavior?....And now you imply you are the epitome of civility?

If you want to converse with me, please stick to the subject at hand. I have no time for your left field replies and comments that are "cute" only to you.

No, I got banned some time ago because I didn't "follow the rules" per the "seriously speaking" section.

I actually thought you might of left this forum due to your obnoxious behavior replying to a post of mine (or perhaps posting under your wife afterwards). Like I said before (or if I didn't say it) glad your back! Please note, although I may not agree with everyone, I do try to keep my words civil, although they may be "sharp" at times:D

I'm certain you can curse better than myself CB so keep in mind, no reason to lose your cool:chicken:

Back to the topic (I got sidetracked, just as you did, so well in informing people that I got banned for a short period of time ago:D).

You tell me to "prove" my comments.

I asked you to research the subject ("creation" of schooling) not to validate my comments, but to validate your thoughts as to why I may be wrong.

Instead, you give me a quick response of "prove what I say". Funny, from a guy as articulate and well read as you, I expected more.

What was the average age of a child who "graduated" high school in 1750/1850 and 1950?

When did mandatory schooling (elementary/high school) occur in the United States and why?

As I mentioned, people usually only see what's "happening around" them during their lives. Socio/economic change is a little like geology. Things can happen slow, over a long period of time without notice.

Sort of like the SAT test. People think that the test was for created for people to get into college because that's the only thing they know of the test and why it was created. What they fail to realize is who created the test and where they got their questions from and what those questions were used for in the first place (not a shining moment in American history).

And, yes, given time, I will try to "prove" my point if you'd like. However, like everyone else here, people tend to check all their facts via the internet. I actually have these things called books where I draw some of my information from. Sad fact is, I found my academic "career" really didn't pay the bills real good until I found a new line of work. Sad to say, most of those books (which I found very interesting to read, but worth crap for a career) are about 500 miles away gathering dust at my dads house. I'll be looking for particular authors for references.

Can you give me a little time big guy?
 
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Cityboy

Banned
No, I got banned some time ago because I didn't "follow the rules" per the "seriously speaking" section.

That and your general obnoxiousness.

I actually thought you might of left this forum due to your obnoxious behavior replying to a post of mine, using using curse words and bringing personal aspects of a persons life into your post, just like you did with Bob some time ago. Please note, although I may not agree with everyone, I do try to keep my words civil, although they may be "sharp" at times:D .

You are truly a hypocrite, DZ. You think you are smart and cute, but you are the only one who thinks so. Sure, I and others have disagreements. But the difference is with you is that you will stalk the person you have disagreements with and beat the dead horse until you get the last word in. You went right back after Sushi immediately after your two week ban, and you got all into Sushi's personal life.


Back to the topic (I got sidetracked, just as you did, so well in informing people that I got banned for a short period of time ago).

Just following your lead.

You tell me to "prove" my comments.

I asked you to research the subject ("creation" of schooling) not to validate my comments, but to validate your thoughts as to why I may be wrong.

OK, wise one; here is how the debate game works.

1. Person makes an outlandish sounding claim with no evidence to back the position.

2. Person making the outlandish claim is asked for proof.

3. Person making outlandish sounding claim either provides proof or evidence supporting the outlandish claim, or admits they have no proof

But, here's what you did, and frequently do:

1. Make outlandish sounding claim.

2. Fail to back that claim with supporting evidence.

3. When called out, attempt to distract everyone by asking someone else to look it up.

4. Continue to blow smoke and fail to provide evidence to back up outlandish sounding claim.

What was the average age of a child who "graduated" high school in 1750/1850 and 1950?

When did mandatory schooling (elementary/high school) occur in the United States and why?

Here we go again...:beatdeadhorse5:

Nobody really cares to answer your trivia, DZ. Why not just post what you know and make your points instead of trying to quiz people who have no interest in answering your query? Could it be that you cannot back up your position with citable facts?

I will not respond to anything else in this thread until you cite your sources. I'm sure you'll get the last word in along with a little cut on me, but that's OK....I expect no less from you, so, go ahead.
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
Do a little work yourself other than looking up anti Islamic facts and anti left wing propaganda CB:D

Ok, here's a little hint for you. Per my last comment about the SAT, look up the name "Carl Brigham".

All I stated was the schools were not created strictly for education, but to get the children out of the workforce.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Conversation is to stay on topic!

Please, no swaying especially in the area of bickering.

DZ and CB, get back to the topic and leave the jabs and prodding out of the thread.
 
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