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The Real Threat Of Islam

mtntopper

Back On Track
SUPER Site Supporter
This is interesting and thought provoking whether you agree or disagree with the author.

The Real Threat Of Islam?
Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components. Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well. Here's how it works.
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves, along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam.Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%


At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%


From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons. ''Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'
It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts nor schools nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.
--------------------------------------------
Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book:
Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and ContemporaryThreat
 

elsmitro

floppy member
I think the real threat is that it is a form of satanic worship. All of these religions that worship false prophets (or none at all) are lies straight from the pits of hell out of the mouth of the prince of lies; and it's not that the devil is working any harder today than he did on day one; he has never let up for one second. The real threat is that the Christians of today are not working as hard to fight him as they did in the past.

http://www.liveprayer.com/plan.cfm

Plan Of Salvation
Altar Call "Plan of Salvation" Video Clip
The Bible teaches that God has provided salvation in the person and work of Jesus Christ. Jesus was made to assume our flesh, die in our stead, rise again from the dead, ascend to the Father, receive the place of power at God's right hand, and appear before God in the believer's behalf. He is to come again to consummate redemption. This work of God's Son was for the purpose of saving us from the guilt, the penalty, the power, and ultimately the presence of sin. Salvation was provided for those who believe in Christ and walk in his ways. Faith is the only condition to salvation, and it is the gift of God.
John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life"
Today, can be the day that you make the most important decision you make in this life. Where will you spend eternity? Jesus died so that your sins could be forgiven and you could live forever in heaven when this life is over. All you have to do is pray this simple prayer.
PRAYER
"God, I am a sinner. I ask you to forgive me of my sins. I believe in my heart, and confess with my lips, that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Come into my heart Jesus. Take my life, I surrender it to you. From this moment on, I will live my life according to the Bible and serve you. Thank you for taking away my sins and giving me everlasting life. In the name of Jesus I pray, amen"
If you prayed this prayer, please email us so that we can send you at no charge some information to help you in your new life with Christ
God Bless You!
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and Jews, and all other believers.

So in order to make this all go away...while it's only 22% we need to get busy and start populating as Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and Jews, and all other believers.
 

Cityboy

Banned
Well, hell! I've been tellin' ya'll this for years now. :bonk:

I don't care what anyone thinks, we should not tolerate Islam or any other religion that attempts to inject itself into our government. MT's article shows what happens in countries that do.

I'm sorry, but Islam is evil, and I'd deport their asses back to their country of origin if I were king of the world. Every time a mosque is built here it is just another step toward jihad. If you do not believe this you are naive and ignorant of the real world around you. Radical thought? Perhaps, but what has Islamic history taught us over the last 1000 years?
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.
--------------------------------------------
Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book:
Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and ContemporaryThreat

I really doubt it will reach that 50% figure, when they have so many that are willing to kill in the name of "God", I would bet within ten years, they will have caused their "Home land" to be vaporized from their actions elsewhere....

Such as getting a nuke and vaporizing a major city either in Israel or the U.S. with some suicide bomber that will be just as dead as the ones that kill school kids in a pizza shop for their version of God...

At some point in time they will be treated as Lepers from mass hysteria they will create. :hide:

Not a pretty picture, but the ones that are truly wanting to live in peace are dwarfed by those that don't in actions.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
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So in order to make this all go away...while it's only 22% we need to get busy and start populating as Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and Jews, and all other believers.

Good reason the Pope is against Condoms!!!:biggrin::w00t:
 
D

darroll

Guest
> Dr. Jerry Vines, pastor of First
> Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Fla.
>
>
>
>
> "Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who
> had 12 wives ; and his last one was a 9-year-old girl. And I will tell
you,
> Allah is not Jehovah either. Jehovah's not going to turn
> you into a terrorist that'll try to bomb people and take the lives
> of thousands and thousands of people"
>
>
>
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
To put a 'face' to the thread of Islam, read this story and view the photos.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...15-year-old-Iraqi-suicide-bomber-gave-up.html

Its sickening what the terrorists will do.

article-1049021-0269A2A900000578-982_468x286.jpg


article-1049021-0269B2B100000578-577_468x365.jpg


article-1049021-0269A3C100000578-404_233x339.jpg


article-1049021-0269A23300000578-290_468x676.jpg


article-1049021-0269B9A000000578-941_468x546.jpg
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Actually...That's just Islam.

Unfortunately that appears to be all too true. But it is also horrible.

It never ceases to amaze me what depths the radicals can reach. Just when I think they have stooped too low to believe they manage to surprise me again with their next action.
 

Ross 650

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Howdy,
I lived amongst them for a year. The only answer to the problem is to open season on them. These poor folks only want you and your family dead. They will never coexist with humans.
 

elsmitro

floppy member
Howdy,
I lived amongst them for a year. The only answer to the problem is to open season on them. These poor folks only want you and your family dead. They will never coexist with humans.

Right on Brother! That’s what I have been telling these folks all along… We’ve got to rear up and punch the old devil square in the mouth. And when the dip shits start calling us radicals you **** them up too! The only way to save our way of life is to silence the whiners and annihilate the unconverted in the Middle East. :thumb:
 

Cityboy

Banned
Right on Brother! That’s what I have been telling these folks all along… We’ve got to rear up and punch the old devil square in the mouth. And when the dip shits start calling us radicals you **** them up too! The only way to save our way of life is to silence the whiners and annihilate the unconverted in the Middle East. :thumb:

Elsmitro, my X-Marine Brother in arms, understand that ALL religion, even Christianity, bears responsibility in the idiocy of human wars. Christianity, at least, has managed to evolve beyond rightious "jihad" and genocide. That much I concede. Islam has not, and should not be tolerated. The real Devil is religion which serves only to seperate human beings into warring sects at worst, and arguing factions at best. The answer is not necessarily to ahnilate the "uncoverted" Muslims who refuse to convert Christianity... as they would do to us; but to acknowledge that religion only serves to divide us, and then to ahnilate those religions and beliefs that are the cause of our human strife.
 

Ross 650

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Howdy Cityboy,
I dont see any religion except islam which teaches to kill anyone of a different persuasion. If you arent a follower of islam then you have to die. They are so screwed up that they will kill themselves just to kill you. I dont remember religion causing WWI, WWII, Korea,or Vietnam. Seems to me that those were caused by greed and trying to take over another country and ruling the people. To know the muslims is to detest them as vermin. We could make them calm down by flying some fire fighting planes over them and spraying them with pig blood. A picture of a pig isnt even allowed in Saudi. Sorry for the long windedness but it just tees me off to think about them killing all the innocent Americans in the Trade Towers on 9/11.
 

Cityboy

Banned
Howdy Cityboy,
I dont see any religion except islam which teaches to kill anyone of a different persuasion. If you arent a follower of islam then you have to die. They are so screwed up that they will kill themselves just to kill you. I dont remember religion causing WWI, WWII, Korea,or Vietnam. Seems to me that those were caused by greed and trying to take over another country and ruling the people. To know the muslims is to detest them as vermin. We could make them calm down by flying some fire fighting planes over them and spraying them with pig blood. A picture of a pig isnt even allowed in Saudi. Sorry for the long windedness but it just tees me off to think about them killing all the innocent Americans in the Trade Towers on 9/11.

Ross,

Christianity was not always pure. From the Christain Bible:

Deuteronomy 13

13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

So you see, Ross and elsmitro...as good and faithful Christians, you should kill me right now. And if I were a Christian father, and my children believe other than I do, then I should kill my own children, and so should you guys kill your own children if they depart from Christianity. But, you guys are not going to do that because you have decided to pick and choose between the bible verses that you WANT to obey, and tha bible verses that you choose NOT to obey because they are so absurd. Think about that for a while before you reply.......

And you are correct that religion was not the primary cause of WW1, and WW2, even though Hitler wanted to genocide a religious group (remember all those 6-million Jews?). But it did have some distinct influence on Korea and Vietnam because we were battling the godless Communists, ...remember? So, religion was involved, to a greater extent than you realize, in all the wars you mentioned.

But, I will agree with you 100% that we can not abide by Islam, although I find your pig blood comment asinine, yet amusing at the same time. Comments like that only serve to make you look extremely ignorant . All religions create conflict and hostility between human beings. The only true answer for humanity is the realization that religion = ignorance. When the world puts its religions aside and begins an earnest dialouge, then, and only then, can we begin the healing process.
 

elsmitro

floppy member
Wow CB, it's past my bed time, don't git me riled! :censored: Deuteronomy is Old Testament, as in the original that Jesus and his disciples based things on. The New Testament is what was intended to directly apply to A.D. Christians. That’s why I don’t tithe or any of that other ‘selectable’ Old Testament stuff.

The birth, life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Christ are the "turning points" in world history. It is fitting, therefore, that Jesus Christ be the separation of "old" and "new." BC was "before Christ" and since His birth, we have been living "in the year of our Lord." Philippians 2:10-11, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

And, why haven't you girly men posted the best shot of the explosives? :w00t2:
 

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Ross 650

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Howdy Cityboy,
I see you have a preponderance for verbosity about subjects that you are not very well informed on. You quote the bible and that is nice for you to go to the trouble. I find that most people will not take the bible literally. We do not kill or go to war because the bible commands it. On the other hand the muslims take their commandments literally and are so brain washed that they cant question it in a humanitarian way. As for my pig comment, the muslims are so in lock step with what islam commands that if pig blood were to touch them, they would either cut off that part of the body that it touched or commit suicide because the pig is an unclean animal to them. When I was in Saudi I read newspapers and magazines. They had all been censored by metawas with pictures of pigs, and women whose throats or wrists showing. They had been censored via markalots. By the way, I was born before Pearl Harbor was bombed. I remember WWII and all that followed. There was no religious cause that caused that war. It was to stop the aggression of Hitler and his genocide. Please refrain from calling anyone who differs with you ignorant. Have a goodun!!!!
 

Cityboy

Banned
Howdy Cityboy,
I see you have a preponderance for verbosity about subjects that you are not very well informed on. You quote the bible and that is nice for you to go to the trouble. I find that most people will not take the bible literally. We do not kill or go to war because the bible commands it. On the other hand the muslims take their commandments literally and are so brain washed that they cant question it in a humanitarian way. As for my pig comment, the muslims are so in lock step with what islam commands that if pig blood were to touch them, they would either cut off that part of the body that it touched or commit suicide because the pig is an unclean animal to them. When I was in Saudi I read newspapers and magazines. They had all been censored by metawas with pictures of pigs, and women whose throats or wrists showing. They had been censored via markalots. By the way, I was born before Pearl Harbor was bombed. I remember WWII and all that followed. There was no religious cause that caused that war. It was to stop the aggression of Hitler and his genocide. Please refrain from calling anyone who differs with you ignorant. Have a goodun!!!!

Actually, pointing out ignorance is not an insult. It simply means you have failed to look beyond the information you used to form your original opinion on the subject. Everyone is ignorant to some extent.

Of course most people don't take the Bible literally, because it is by and large ridiculous when taken in as a whole literary work, just like the Koran. Both are a work of fiction written in an attempt to control others. The point here was simply that Christians have evolved and Muslims have not. Until Muslims evolve, they will remain ignorant, and continue to kill in the name of god, just like the Christians used to do.

As to WW2, Hitler was intent upon the genocide of the Jews; that, Ross has strong religious connotations, whether you think so or not. Religion has played a role in probably every human war in history when you begin to look deeper into the issues of war.
 

Ross 650

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Howdy Cityboy,
I totally disagree your proposition that all wars are caused by religious reasons. I was taught in bible class in college not to take the bible liberally. It has been written and re-written in different languages. It is a book of parables and poetry. By the way, I didnt look in any book or watch any film as to WWII. We entered into that fracas because the German UBoats were torpedoeing our ships and we assisted our brethern in England. I was alive and well back then and remember it. Heck the Japanese even had a plan to send gas baloons with explosives under them into California. If you had been around to see the results of the atrocities performed against our troops, I dont think you could credit religion for that. Have a goodun!!!!
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Howdy Cityboy,
I totally disagree your proposition that all wars are caused by religious reasons. I was taught in bible class in college not to take the bible liberally. It has been written and re-written in different languages. It is a book of parables and poetry. By the way, I didnt look in any book or watch any film as to WWII. We entered into that fracas because the German UBoats were torpedoeing our ships and we assisted our brethern in England. I was alive and well back then and remember it. Heck the Japanese even had a plan to send gas baloons with explosives under them into California. If you had been around to see the results of the atrocities performed against our troops, I dont think you could credit religion for that. Have a goodun!!!!

Well said Ross!

I would say that greed and power cause wars. Religion may sometimes be used as a cover for the underlying issue but is rarely the primary cause.
 

nixon

Boned
GOLD Site Supporter
Howdy Cityboy,
I totally disagree your proposition that all wars are caused by religious reasons. I was taught in bible class in college not to take the bible liberally. It has been written and re-written in different languages. It is a book of parables and poetry. By the way, I didnt look in any book or watch any film as to WWII. We entered into that fracas because the German UBoats were torpedoeing our ships and we assisted our brethern in England. I was alive and well back then and remember it. Heck the Japanese even had a plan to send gas baloons with explosives under them into California. If you had been around to see the results of the atrocities performed against our troops, I dont think you could credit religion for that. Have a goodun!!!!

Ross ,Thanks for Your perspective . It's rare indeed to have some one that actually lived through an experience actually make a comment on it .
 

elsmitro

floppy member
Bro, religion is one of the few things (if not the only thing) that keeps us from killing each other on a whim. It formed the basis of our society, ‘in god we trust’ and all that. We don’t need it to divide us, we do that every chance we get. From self imposed racial segregation, to hometown ‘south side’ VS ‘north end’ football. I’d say it brings a lot more people together in unity than it does harm, that’s for Christianity anyway. On the other hand, I’m just telling everyone here and now: if something doesn’t start getting done about the ‘Ahmadinejad’s’ as soon as they poke their heads out from under the rocks, shit has the potential of getting so stewpit that we may never be able to fix it.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
Of course most people don't take the Bible literally, because it is by and large ridiculous when taken in as a whole literary work, just like the Koran. Both are a work of fiction written in an attempt to control others.

The differance is that you can say what you want about the Bible in America and live to tell about it without any fear of retrobution, you go to the middle east and try that, you will end up with your throat slit, that is reality, not fiction as you seem to be missing.

That pretty much sums up why I don't have any objections of "In God We Trust" on any of our coins, they are from a Christian lifestyle/background, that guided out Constatution, nothing else even comes close to the rights our forefathers gave us from standards of the Bible. Doesn't make us perfect in any way, but there is no other better way in the World period. Although there is a lot of people that are trying to tear it down to make themselves feel better about "their" lack of belief in anything. :shock:

So, what do you believe in?
 
D

darroll

Guest
So, what do you believe in?


An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I have not had to use that in the US in my lifetime though. I don’t care where this slogan came from, it makes sense and is just a rule that I live by.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
You quote the bible and that is nice for you to go to the trouble. I find that most people will not take the bible literally.
Ross, thanks for pointing this out. Very few Christian religions take the Bible literally.

One other thing is that many lines in the Bible must be interpreted within the context of the entire chapter and the message of that chapter, not simply as stand alone lines.
 

Cityboy

Banned
The differance is that you can say what you want about the Bible in America and live to tell about it without any fear of retrobution, you go to the middle east and try that, you will end up with your throat slit, that is reality, not fiction as you seem to be missing.

That pretty much sums up why I don't have any objections of "In God We Trust" on any of our coins, they are from a Christian lifestyle/background, that guided out Constatution, nothing else even comes close to the rights our forefathers gave us from standards of the Bible. Doesn't make us perfect in any way, but there is no other better way in the World period. Although there is a lot of people that are trying to tear it down to make themselves feel better about "their" lack of belief in anything. :shock:

So, what do you believe in?

WTF are you talking about Foggy? I have argued against Islam on this forum for years and even defended Christianity against those who attempted to compare modern Christianity to modern Islam. Try to keep the context of the discussion rather than turning into something it is not. I'm not missing anything, but apparently you, and a few others are because you and they so blindly defend Christianity from any dissent that you cannot see the bigger picture.

As to the founding of this country, show me just one official document that the United States was founded as a Christian nation. The founders knew better, but many want to inject it into our government. Again, there is a reason for the generic "god" in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

What do I believe? I've already stated what I believe numerous times had you really cared. But you are too busy blindly trying to defend the notion that the U.S. is a Christian nation when the founders clearly understood the folly and wisely avoided it. So, if you must know, I'm pretty much an Agnostic since you so desperately wish to label me.
 

Cityboy

Banned
Ross, thanks for pointing this out. Very few Christian religions take the Bible literally.

One other thing is that many lines in the Bible must be interpreted within the context of the entire chapter and the message of that chapter, not simply as stand alone lines.

There was a time when the bible was taken literally. The Christian religion has continued to evolve over time, and more and more Christian sects continue to ignore more and more of the bible as time goes on. Why do you guys think this is? Why is it that it seems Christians keep picking and choosing what section of the bible they believe and follow, and discarding more and more?

I believe that deep down they understand that the bible is indeed a work of fiction, along with a compilation of philosophical musings, some of which actually bear much wisdom, as well as outlandish jihadist type writings. Christians will continue to dissect it until it goes the way of Greek Mythology and many of the other ancient religions. It is only a matter of time. We can only hope Islam takes the same path at some point in the future.
 
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