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Any Bourbon drinkers among us?

Melensdad

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I need a new hobby.

Figured I'd take up drinking. Bourbon specifically.

My impressions of Bourbon, as a very casual drinker who can go months without alcohol, is that, in any of the classic cocktails, Bourbon is a wonderful drink. I do enjoy a cocktail when we go out to dinner. And over the winter I began to play around with some of the flavored Bourbons and Whiskeys that are seasonal.

I'm still unclear on the actual chemical differences between a Tennessee Whiskey, like Jack Daniels, and a Kentucky Bourbon. I guess its got to do with the maple charcoal filtering that is tradition for Tennessee Whiskey? I know that Bourbon is supposed to be at least 51% corn mash, not sure if that is true for whiskey. It also has to be casked in new charred Oak barrels.

In any event I'm looking for some easy to drink recommendations. I don't like alcohol burn. I favor a sweeter taste over a spicy bite. From what I can tell the spice comes from RYE, so the higher the rye content of the mash the spicier the drink???

I'm digging into regional micro-distillers too.
I've found three here in Indiana that make small batch bourbon. Spring Mill and W.H. Harrison. Also Backbone Bourbon, which is an uncut Bourbon, distilled from 70% corn mash, that I have not yet tried.

I also found a New York distiller, Tuthilltown Distillers, who makes a Bourbon out of 100% corn mash. But I'm still looking for a bottle of that stuff. Its called "Baby Bourbon" and has been out on the market for a couple years. Guess I need to find a nicer liquor store?​

So, anyone got any recommendations on a good Bourbon?

Smoother is better (in my book).
 

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Dargo

Like a bad penny...
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Wow, aged 16 years and a hand written label. In college my bourbon was generally aged on the truck and the double printed label was never on straight!

I don't drink very often, but I enjoy a decent bourbon. Lately, I've found that I like Maker's 46.
 

bczoom

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I don't know much about bourbon or whiskey but if you want something smooth, check out the honey bourbon's.
Wild Turkey American Honey
Jack Daniels Tennessee Honey
Jim Beam Honey

I don't really care for whiskeys but those are really good.
 

Glink

Active member
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Straight up good bourbon, best served straight over chipped ice; Woodford Reserve.
Utility bourbon, good with a splash of water or your preferred mixer; Jim Beam 4 year old.
A nifty little specialty; Jim Beam's Red Stag Hardcore Cider.
I think technically Bourbon has to come from one of several counties in Kentucky. But now sure.
 

Melensdad

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I've had several different 'Honey' bourbons and have some Wild Turkey on the bar top now. I really enjoy the sweet hints of honey and smooth drinking qualities of of the various honey blends.
 

Bamby

New member
I've had several different 'Honey' bourbons and have some Wild Turkey on the bar top now. I really enjoy the sweet hints of honey and smooth drinking qualities of of the various honey blends.

But as of the Honeys I've tried I prefer Wild Turkey by a pretty wide margin. :biggrin:
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
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http://www.templetonrye.com/home/

Templeton Rye is the favorite around here. Used to be you had to know some one special to get it, in a gallon milk jug. Now a days it is available at the store, and won't get you in trouble buying it either....

Al Capone used to come around here back in the day to secure a supply for his boot leggin enterprise. Suposedly he really favored this Bourbon.

I like it as long as I put the bottle away after 2 or 3 drinks. I am also partial to a simple drink using Bourbon, the classic "Old Fashion"

Regards, Kirk
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
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You guys are tougher than me . I just can't handle the taste period .
I guess it don't matter anyway . I cannot drink anymore .
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
After a couple bad experiences with any kind of hard liquor, I choose to stay with my beer.

Oh, but Bob and I went to an all male college. We couldn't waste time when we met women! The first thing we learned was "Liquor is quicker...". :w00t2:

IM JUST KIDDING!!!!
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
You guys are tougher than me . I just can't handle the taste period .
I guess it don't matter anyway . I cannot drink anymore .

You and me both! I had a couple drinks in Napa last week and I could have sworn that the damn plant behind me tried to grope me! :eek: Just look...
 

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Melensdad

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Oh, my bourbon hobby's collection grew by 3 today.

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The fancy bottle is Willets and I've heard both good and bad about that one, but the bottle is cool. In the middle is a Hoosier brand called Spring Mill, which is supposed to taste very good. And to the right is a Holland, Michigan offering that I've heard some really good things about. Its first aged properly in charred oak casks, then it ages again for 3 months, but this time in a beer barrel, to give it a distinct flavor.

I've not tried these yet. . . soon. Its 5 o'clock somewhere. Right?
 

Adillo303

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I tried bourbon, it has to much of a bite for my taste.

Jack Daniels is just so smooth and mellow.

Not classy enough for the rest of my family, it works for me.

Good whiskey never lets you loose you place. I assume that includes bourbon.[ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91iw2QBkZRQ"]Johnny Lee - Cherokee Fiddle - YouTube[/ame]
 

Melensdad

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Tried of a bit of this last evening. Indiana Bourbon that is aged and bottled in Holland Michigan. So I presume that means the mash is made in Indiana and then transported across the state line in vats to be casked and aged??? Or maybe its all done INSIDE the state of Indiana and the process is simply managed by New Holland Brewing, which is based in Michigan? They don't really say, other than the fact that its Indiana Bourbon.

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Tried some of it straight up and some with a single ice cube.

There was some alcohol burn straight up that was all but eliminated with the single cube of ice. Flavors seemed to open up a bit with the ice as well, making for a very pleasant and drinkable bourbon. Not as sweet as I thought it might be.
 

Melensdad

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Stopped at a different liquor shop on the way home from a condo flip that we are finishing up and found another local distillery that makes small batch bourbons. This is also an organic product. This is from 3 Oaks Michigan, which is on the Michigan/Indiana border at Lake Michigan. No, I didn't try it yet. Probably Friday evening?

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I found some W.H.Harrison Governor's Reserve, at about $55/bottle, which is another Indiana made Bourbon. There were a few bottles on the shelf. I also found a distributor who has a few bottles of the W.H.Harrison Presidential Reserve, at $110/bottle. The liquor salesman who is in my shooting group and who sells this particular brand says the Presidential Reserve is very good. The Governor's Reserve is sort of iffy. And their standard product, which is unavailable at this time due to production/bottling issues, and only a bit over 1/2 the price of the Governor's, is a much better tasting bourbon. So I passed on the Governor's Reserve and am debating on spending the cash for the Presidential Reserve.
 

Melensdad

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Planning to do a Side-By-Side comparison of 2 different bourbons tonight.

Just not sure which 2 to compare!

And no, I will not be over-doing it. Just for the flavor, not for the buzz. Probably pouring short glasses of two different brands. Neat. Letting them get a bit of air, breathing a bit to see if the aroma opens up. Then sipping a few sips of each for the flavoring.

Then, taking a single ice cube and dropping it each glass to see how the temp change and dilution changes the flavors of the bourbon. See if it mellows it or waters it down.
 

Melensdad

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OK, dinner is over so let the bourbon begin...

Journeyman from 3 Oaks, Michigan ~vs~ Spring Mill from Indianapolis, IN.

Both are 90 proof.

Spring Mill has a medium caramel color tint to it, while the Journeyman is noticeably lighter in color. Neither bottle indicates how long either was aged in the casks, but its likely that the Spring Mill has been aged longer simply because of the darker color.

All bourbons are aged in new, charred, oak barrels. The color comes from the aging in the charred barrels and while it is not an absolute certainty, the darker the color is often an indicator of a longer period in the cask.

Journeyman has a pleasant, almost sweet, aroma to it while the Spring Mill seems to have some more pronounced aroma with stronger hints of alcohol. Both were sniffed after breathing in glasses, neat, for several minutes.

While nearly sweet to the smell, there is no sweetness to the taste, the Journeyman clearly has an alcohol bite that is sharp on the finish causing a tingling on the lips and inside the mouth. There is also an alcohol burn all the way down to the stomach.

Switching over to the Spring Mill I found a much smoother flavor with none of the sharpness or alcohol bite in my mouth. There was a bit of alcohol burn, but far less than the Journeyman, it was more of a warm feeling instead of a burn. A second sip confirmed my findings that the Spring Mill is clearly the smoother of the two bourbons.

A single cube of ice was added to the Journeyman while I sampled the Spring Mill. With some of the ice melted into the Journeyman I began sipping again and found the drink to be somewhat acrid in flavor and it still maintained the alcohol burn on the way down. With ice I am finding the Journeyman to be LESS pleasant to drink and I wasn't overly impressed with it before the ice went into the glass. I think the Journeyman will be relegated to mixed drinks. I'll probably compare it to something in the future, but its not good enough for sippin'

With a sip of water between each of the drinks each time I switched, I went back to the Spring Mill, this time with a single cube of ice partially melted into the bourbon. Something bad happens to the Spring Mill when it is diluted. It actually picked up a bit of mouth bite, but it remained smooth as it went down. Waited a bit and allowed the ice to melt about 50% and the Spring Mill then mellowed out and became a pleasant drink on the rocks.

Overall, I'll pick the Spring Mill any day over the Journeyman.
 

Melensdad

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Stumbled upon this, very interesting ideas, shortchanging time in the aging process...

From the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/d...olling-out-a-smaller-barrel-sooner.html?_r=1&

Rolling Out a Smaller Barrel Sooner


THE indispensable ingredient in great whiskey is time: years of aging and mellowing in casks. But in the world of craft whiskey, a growing number of distillers are unwilling to wait that long.

With a range of new technologies and techniques — smaller barrels, ultrasound machines, pressure chambers — they can put on the shelf in a matter of months, if not weeks, whiskeys that they say compare to ones matured for three to five years.

“Everyone’s trying to cheat time, in a sense to cheat mother nature,” said John Hansell, the editor of The Whisky Advocate.

While most small distillers continue to churn out unaged products (like vodka or gin) that can move from still to store in days, dozens of intrepid entrepreneurs see aged liquors, particularly whiskey, as their best shot at differentiating themselves in an increasingly crowded market.

Yet aging can take, well, ages: four years is a widely accepted minimum for bourbon, eons to a cash-hungry start-up that has spent a small fortune on equipment, barrels and warehousing.

In response, many new distillers are turning to smaller barrels, as little as 5 gallons, instead of the standard 53-gallon model. The smaller size allows more of the whiskey to come into contact with the wood surface. As a result, it picks up the oaky flavors and dark colors of the wood faster, and within a year a distiller will usually have something with the vanilla and caramel notes associated with whiskey.

The problem is that those notes are about all they will get. Missing will be the complex floral and fruit notes that come from esterification, the years of interaction of acids in the wood with alcohols, oxygen and other chemicals in the barrel. Such one-dimensionality characterizes several new regional whiskeys, including Kings County bourbon of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, which is aged in five-gallon casks for about a year, or Hudson Baby Bourbon, produced by Tuthilltown Spirits in Gardiner, N.Y.

“You get something that’s interesting, and some people like it, and there might even be a market for it, but it’s not something that people who are looking for a complicated spirit are going to particularly enjoy,” said Kris Berglund, a chemical engineer and the head of the artisan distilling program at Michigan State.

It’s not that very young whiskeys are bad; they are just different. Koval, a new distillery in Chicago that makes whiskey with nontraditional grains like millet and spelt, gives its products just a few months in the barrel, enough to smooth a few edges but not so much that the grains’ unusual flavors disappear.

One thing that minimal aging does is let the flavor of the original grains come through, which can be great for cocktails. Mr. Hansell said it was useful to think of young whiskeys as the equivalent of a blanco, or unaged, tequila optimal for margaritas, while anejo tequila, aged for at least a year, is better for sipping.

Still, some distillers are unwilling to wait the 9 to 12 months required by small barrels. An array of new techniques eschew aging almost entirely in favor of methods like ultrasound, agitation and rapid controlled pressure swings — all meant to speed the extraction of color and flavor, as well as the chemical reactions inside the whiskey itself.

Later this year Tom Lix, the founder of Cleveland Whiskey, will introduce a whiskey made in a device akin to an oversize pressure cooker. Inside it he places unaged whiskey and oak staves, then alternates high and low pressure over several days. “In a matter of weeks, if not less, we have product coming out that rivals 10- to 12-year-olds,” he said.

Another venture producing whiskey for private-label clients is Terressentia, based outside Charleston, S.C. It uses a mix of ultrasonic waves and oxidation to remove impurities from young whiskey rapidly — a process that mimics the effects of long-term aging, said Earl D. Hewlette, the company’s chief executive.

“Twelve to 18 hours will completely clean 250 gallons of whiskey in a way that is far better than barrel aging,” he said.

To prove it, he offered samples of six-month-old and two-year-old whiskeys, before and after Terressentia’s process.

There was definitely a difference in taste: the processed whiskey was a bit smoother, and at least in the younger whiskey, more of the grain notes came through. But both lacked depth, while betraying a vague but noticeably sterile note. Impurities may have been removed; nothing seems to have replaced them.

So does this mean that start-up distillers are out of luck?

Not necessarily. While nothing will completely replace lengthy aging in full-size barrels, a few tricks can add depth quickly. One, borrowed from Scotch makers, is to “finish” a whiskey in used wine barrels for a few weeks, which allows some of the wine esters to seep into the liquid.

Finger Lakes Distilling, in Burdett, N.Y., ages its delicious McKenzie Bourbon in 10-gallon barrels for 18 months, but then sets it aside for a few months more in used chardonnay barrels. As a result, the whiskey ages quickly, but also has some of the darker color and fruity, floral depth associated with older whiskeys.

As the craft sector does its own maturing, said Dave Pickerell, an industry consultant and former master distiller at Maker’s Mark, more start-ups will adopt this sort of hybrid approach, at least for now. Eventually, he said, he suspected most would convert to traditional large barrels.

“Many of the people that are employing the small-barrel techniques now have big barrels in the warehouse, and they’re just doing small barrels now to get them through until the big barrels are ready,” he said.

All the same, he doesn’t expect them to abandon small-barrel aging or other techniques. “They’re not out to make something that tastes like Maker’s Mark,” he said. “They’re out to make something that’s unique and interesting in their own right.”

 

Melensdad

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Well for my second installment of head to head comparisons I am going to take SPRING MILL from last night and compare it to BEER BARREL.

First off is the appearance. Both are about the same rich caramel color but the BEER BARREL is slightly cloudy, and under careful scrutiny has visible particles floating in the glass. The SPRING MILL has no such cloud.

As for aroma, both of them have a pleasant aroma, but while the SPRING MILL has mild in its aroma, there is a definite intensity to the aroma of the BEER BARREL.

When it comes to taste the BEER BARREL has virtually ZERO alcohol burn on the way down, it is very smooth after it passes your lips but there is a slight tingle on the lip. SPRING MILL, definitely has more of an alcohol flavor in the mouth, and, while it does not have an objectionable burn on the way down, it is pronounced when compared to the much smoother BEER BARREL. This is not to say the SPRING MILL is harsh, because it is not.

As with my prior test all initial testing was done straight, not cut with water and not iced. 1 ice cube was added to the remaining bourbon in each glass and allowed to melt and breathe for a couple minutes.

I found the BEER BARREL to change from pleasant to almost objectionable with the addition of the ice! What was once smooth became acrid and harsh. What was mellow was no more. I tried it again, just to be sure and came back with the same opinion. BEER BARREL is wonderful neat. Not so much on ice. Only when the single ice cube had completely melted did the BEER BARREL become good again.

The SPRING MILL, while not as tasty as the BEER BARREL when straight, was better than BEER BARREL when served on the rocks.

Tonight I'd like to say we have a tie. I prefer the BEER BARREL neat, but on the rocks I'd say the SPRING MILL is better. Watered down a bit when the ice was gone, the BEER BARREL was redeemed again and again was tasty. So perhaps if pushed hard enough I'd go say the BEER BARREL is slightly better than the SPRING MILL.
 

BigAl

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I think in another week Bob S is going to be a ragin Drunk !!!:w00t2:
 

Jim_S

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I think in another week Bob S is going to be a ragin Drunk !!!:w00t2:

I don't think we have to worry.

Look back through his posts. He's not drinking the stuff, he's just sipping it.

What he is doing is COLLECTING BOTTLES! :mrgreen:
 

Melensdad

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I don't think we have to worry.

Look back through his posts. He's not drinking the stuff, he's just sipping it.

What he is doing is COLLECTING BOTTLES! :mrgreen:

I'm not worried. I'm just sipping. :hammer:




I'm adding to my collection faster than I can reasonably test them. I picked up the Evan Williams 1783 because I had heard that it was a very sweet bourbon. Its also cheap (under $20/w tax). The Wild Turkey "Forgiven" was purchased on a whim, it just looked interesting. I've not tried it yet, but I did open it up to take a sniff and it smells great. I did the same with the E.W. 1783 and it smelled of alcohol but not good. Yet many people seem to really like the flavor of the 1783.

I'll be doing another comparison tomorrow? Maybe tonight, but probably tomorrow.

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DiNCA likes his corn squeezin's, yup. Tend toward mixer varieties, but the sippin' styles found in the liquor bin currently include the ubiquitous Maker's Mark and Knob Creek and I kind of started liking Bulleit recently.

Then there's a new one that is worth considering for your purposes: B&E (aka Breaking and Entering). It's from a distillery in Alameda, CA, just down the road from here. It's really a spicy (cinnamon,clove,vanilla) slightly sweet and a little thick, very tasty, great mouthfeel, kind of reminds me of a maple bar in a way. From St. George Spirits, I'm sure they have a website, indeed, stgeorgespirits.com.

As for Napa distillations, it's mostly Brandy (go figure), but there's a vodka distillery here in town. And that doesn't count the home distillers, lol. Lots of Grappa made in these here parts.

Check out B&E, Bob. It might be up your alley
 
We don't have a problem at all. I can just go over to Lawler's and get some. I also have no problem with forwarding a sample of sufficient size to your lab for analytical purposes. PM me the address where SnotRack Laboratory takes delivery.
 

Melensdad

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Well I opened both of the brand new bottles.

The colors of both of these bourbons are a nice deep rich caramel color, and both are about the same shade with good clarity. The aroma of the Wild Turkey Forgiven is is rich, savory and full while the Evan Williams seems sweet to the nose and thin.

In the mouth the Evan Williams 1783 definitely has sweet tones and is very pleasant with no burn going down, although there is a small bit of an alcohol burn when it hits bottom. If you hold it in your mouth it will cause your mouth to tingle. The taste is fairly sweet too, in a good/pleasant way.

Switching over to the Forgiven from Wild Turkey you pick up spice, probably from the rye. Its still a pleasant bourbon, and smooth going down your throat, but you get the sense that this is a more serious bourbon than the Evan Williams. Given that it costs about $30 more per bottle you do expect something more substantial than the low priced Evan Williams and it does deliver.

Adding a single cube of ice to each and swirling the glasses a bit then taking a sip, the Evan Williams 1783 hits your tongue with a sweet shot but then goes down your throat with a slight burn that didn't exist when sipped neat. Again, still a pleasant bourbon to drink and probably a great mixer, but probably to simple to drink on a regular basis.

Picking up the Wild Turkey Forgiven and bringing up the glass with ice I pick up a scent of sweetness that did not exist neat. The peppery spice flavors opened up a bit more and the complexity of this bourbon blend showed itself. I like this. Very much. Neat, or with ice, before bed, while relaxing, the Forgiven, in a glass would be a fine companion.

Switching back to the Evan Williams 1783 and the lack of depth with the now nearly completely melted ice cube showed itself to be a thin drink that matched the thin price. Not to say the 1783 is a bad drink, its not. Its destined to be a mixer. Perhaps a summertime drink, neat, while BBQ'ing some burgers or brats.

We don't have a problem at all. I can just go over to Lawler's and get some. I also have no problem with forwarding a sample of sufficient size to your lab for analytical purposes. PM me the address where SnotRack Laboratory takes delivery.
Check you INBOX in a couple moments!
 

Melensdad

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Went back for another nip of the FORGIVEN :applause:

Neat :hammer:
 
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