Ford's 6.0 liter diesel still haunting them

Due to the absolutely huge backlash from the public about the exceptionally poor 6.0 liter diesel engine, Ford has had to extend warranty coverage on the engine as well as face dozens and dozens law suits. Ford has moved away from the troublesome 6.0 liter after a short 4 year run. From what I've heard in the Indianapolis area, workers at the International Truck and Engine plant there have been worried for a while about their jobs due to that particular engine. Now many are temporarily out of work because of the extinct 6.0 liter.

According to published industry specific articles, ITE was to accept a relatively significant portion of the costs that Ford has incurred due to the huge expenses that plague Ford related to the problems with the ITE 6.0 liter engine. Ford has now withheld payments to ITE for at least the second time in response. The word on the street in Indy from the idle workers is that they are worried that Ford could move to a different supplier for their diesel engines and ITE could go under; leaving them unemployed. Contrary to popular belief, Ford has emphatically stated that they will not have their future tied to that of one specific engine maker no matter what contracts may be in place.

See here for the latest public news about the troubled diesel engine maker Ford stops payments to International Truck and Engine.

I don't feel sorry for Ford. Why is it these 6.0 motors in IH school busses don't have the problems FOrd has., Simple answer, IH doesn't use computers to push the horse power/ torque ratings to Oh my God and the needed pressures to obtain those high numbers, Far as I'm concerned, Ford better design a better computer program.

I don't claim to know the source of the 6.0 problems, only that they definitely exist. I don't know if it can be verified, but many Ford dealers claim that the 4 year total run for the 6.0 liter diesel before it was replaced ranks among the shortest runs for any engine by a major manufacturer. It takes hundreds of millions of dollars to make a complete engine change, so manufacturers don't like to make a complete engine change in only 4 years. Whatever the root of the problem is, the 6.0 liter Ford (International) diesel engine is blamed for the loss of thousands of jobs and untold millions of dollars.

At the dealer auctions, dealers are now really beginning to walk past the 6.0 liter Ford diesels. They still sell relatively well to the Ford faithful, but the dealers now don't want the PR nightmare that they could inherit by selling them. That in turn is starting to cause the bottom to fall out of the resale value of the 6.0 liter diesel Fords. Which, in itself, will cause hundreds of millions of dollars in comsumer losses from people who own them and try to unload them. All of this is fodder for court battles against Ford and, particularly, International. I've seen it coming for a while, now it's starting to get ugly in public.

I had an older Ford 7.3 dually (1990 model). Awesome truck. Are they brining back the 7.3 engine? What engine choices does a Ford diesel buyer have?

Glad I leased mine. At least I can walk away if I so choose.
26K miles and no problem thus far.

Have the 6.4's started to hit the dealers yet? I see a lot of 6.0's right now but no 6.4's yet.

Dargo, if you were to buy a new 3/4-1 ton Diesel, whoat would you go with?

PB: Cummins would be the motor of choice. They come wrapped in a Dodge pickup, but that's not too bad. They have their auto tranny issues worked out and you can get support for the motor from Cummins not just Dodge.

In my opinion, diesels were not ment to act like gas motors. An inline diesel is far and away a better design than a "V" style motor. Case in point: How many V-4/6/8 diesels are in use commercially? Very few. They all have had issues, but the support and history of quality is behind Cummins far more than the PS in the Ford or Isuzu-max in the Chevy.

Doc: The 7.3 was the last of the good Ford/Navistar diesels. It stands no chance of comming anywhere near the BS legislation on polution control now.



FWIW: My next vehicle will probably be a restored 73-90 Chevy/GMC fullsize Blazer with a 4BT Cummins conversion. 30+ mpg, 500k life span.

PBinWA said:

Have the 6.4's started to hit the dealers yet? I see a lot of 6.0's right now but no 6.4's yet.

Dargo, if you were to buy a new 3/4-1 ton Diesel, whoat would you go with?

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2008 F250 chassis with a Cummins TD from Dodge, and an Allison tranny from that other automaker.

Not sure what a good rear end or t-case would be though.

PBinWA said:

Have the 6.4's started to hit the dealers yet? I see a lot of 6.0's right now but no 6.4's yet.

Dargo, if you were to buy a new 3/4-1 ton Diesel, whoat would you go with?

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I'm actually facing that issue right now. I have a perfectly good '96 Dodge with a beast of a Cummins in it. However, I don't have the time or desire to chase the non-powertrain issues that are bound to begin popping up with an 11 year old pickup.

Believe it or not, I'm looking at the new Fords with the new, but unproven, 6.4 or the new Dodge with the new, but unproven, 6.7 liter Cummins. I've had my Dodge for about 7 years now and have to admit that it's grown on me. Other than putting in a total race transmission several years ago when I bumped up the power (factory tranny was perfect to 100k with stock power), I've not done a thing to the old Dodge. However, I like the ride and drive of Fords better. I'm just a bit gun shy after all the stats I have on the 6.0 liter. Sometimes being in the business and seeing all the ugly stats just confuses me.

Don't hold me to it, but I'll likely go with a new Dodge with the 6.7 Cummins. Statistically, Dodge has no more transmission issues than Ford or Chevy when you leave the engine stock. It's only when you go bumping up the power - which is reeeally easy on the Cummins - you get tranny trouble. Contrary to urban legend, I seem to see just as many Allison transmission claims in the GM products as with Ford or Dodge. The Allison tranny in the pickups is not what they'd have you believe it is. That along with the fact that I just don't like the Dribblemax, sort of excludes a GM product from my choices. And, that's from a guy who only drove Chevy products for years and years and whose father lives and breathes Chevy.

When I get my taxes done for the year I'll likely go out and drive the new Dodge with the 6.7 and the new Ford with the 6.4 and see if I like the Ford a lot better. If I don't just love the Ford over the Dodge, I'll likely get the Dodge. My Cummins buddies (at the local Cummins shops) tell me that the 6.7 will be like the old venerable 5.9; only with more power and more potential. Based on what I see, both the Ford and Dodge will haul my 20k trailer without any modifications. Overall, I guess I'm just an inline fan when it comes to diesel.

Having said that, I certainly have no problems with the old 7.3 PS the Fords had. I've drag raced my neighbor's hundreds of times over the years. He could kill me when our trucks were both stock. After mods, he just can't get it to run with my Cummins. But, alas, I intend to keep my new truck stock since they now come out with considerably more power than the 160 or so hp my Cummins had stock.

Thanks Dargo, I'm in a similar position to you. My 99 7.3 PS is still running strong but I'm eyeing a new truck in the next year or so. A lot of changes going on in the industry. I'm a Ford guy at heart but the 6.0 didn't look that great and I'm hesitant to get another first year model.

I'll probably wait another year or two and see what is happening. I want to leave my next truck as stock as possible. Once you start fiddling its hard to stop. It seems like upgrades are all tied together and once you upgrade one part you have to do the next.

PB

Dargo said:

the new, but unproven, 6.7 liter Cummins

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I do believe that motor is only available in the new 4500/5500 and cab-chassis trucks.



I have my '94 175hp/5-Speed Cummins-Dodge (link goes to my old website that has never beed deleted!) at home with 200k on it right now. Not a daily driver anymore, but I'll get rid of it only when it dies (never).

Like I said earlier, when my VW goes away (probably this summer) I will drive the Dodge untill I put together the Cummins-Blazer.

Av8r3400 said:

I do believe that motor is only available in the new 4500/5500 and cab-chassis trucks.

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Ah, there you have it. I obviously have not even stepped on a lot yet to look at the trucks and now my decision is nearly made. Sometimes when you buy a first year engine you get a nice upgrade, sometimes you get a nasty surprise. Being that I'm really not much of a gambler, I would prefer to stick with something that is proven and take my chances that I missed the next great thing.

Well I am happy to be driving an '01 with a 7.3 just turned 100,000.. so I have some time to see what happens in the FORD line. It really is sad to see it happening.. could not have come at a worse time inmho... Toyota is nocking hard on the door with their new half ton.. some good number there..wonder if they will be going heavier soon..

I did drive a 6.0 when I was shopping.. nice snappy motor.. but I figured I would go for the reliable 7.3 and a few upgrades..

and in all honesty I pulled two jeeps from western PA to Utah and back last spring.... the truck did just fine in stock form... the only time I would like to of had a little more power wol dhave been over the rocky mountains..but the you can still only cruise so fast...

I think that you can get a workhorse from all of the big three.... and that they all have their pros and cons...

I always say " drive what you like "

Av8r3400 said:

I do believe that motor is only available in the new 4500/5500 and cab-chassis trucks.



I have my '94 175hp/5-Speed Cummins-Dodge (link goes to my old website that has never beed deleted!) at home with 200k on it right now. Not a daily driver anymore, but I'll get rid of it only when it dies (never).

Like I said earlier, when my VW goes away (probably this summer) I will drive the Dodge untill I put together the Cummins-Blazer.

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NOPE theres two 6.7 3500 sitting on my Dodge dealer ship right now. I am waiting to hear what the Ford dealership will be giving me on my 05 Dodge Power Wagon. It Blue books for dealers at 25K. BUT they said they were calling around? WTF? Its a perfect truck (they even said they didnt need to drive it since they knew it has been well taken care of and still looks new) if your not towing 8,000 pounds or more. BUT I wont take anything less than 24K from the dealer ship. I will go to Dodge and get a 1 Ton 4x4 Diesel Dually with the 6.7....... BUT we will see. I really want a Ford! They are hands down better than the Dodges. I fell in love with my Dads new 08 Ford 1 ton when I towed one of my new heavy snowcats home! BUT I wont take it up the Keester either. Its a work truck and I can live with the 2nd best. GMC and Chevys are plain CRAP! Just ask Bob Pierce! Both of there 07 GMCs have been in the shop off and on constantly! Also the 6.4 is completely diffrent than the 6.0 that Ford got rid of!

When I picked up my latest snowcat they owner had a 1 ton 07 Dodge diesel with 550 HP (? cant remeber for sure) at the rear wheels! I know it wasnt stock since he showed off his new trucks power by doing a 4 wheel burn off! OK I was impressed but dont need anywhwere near that power. In fact stock 350hp / 650ft lbs seems plenty to me. Now I do like the chips and bigger exhausts and air intakes for better fuel economy. Thats it. I dont need all the massive HP increases.

Hell I may even go with the 6 speed and install a gear vender gear splitter and over drive unit! Now that would be cool.

Three years ago I need to replace my 88 7.3 and the 6.0 scared me so I went with an 02 7.3 PS and boy am I glad that I did. The old 7.3PS was/ is a proven preformer. International makes a good engine if Ford would just leave it alone.

I have had two 7.3 IH diesels in my Ford F250s and they never gave me a moments trouble!

Anyone have a Gear Vender splitter over drive unit behind a 6 speed Dodge?

Snowcat Operations said:

Anyone have a Gear Vender splitter over drive unit behind a 6 speed Dodge?

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Mike , would you really gain that much installing a Overdrive unit ? Seems like a 6 speed Dodge should have all the gears you would need if they engineered it correctly .I doubt the cost and installation vs fuel gain,power would be worth it . My 2 cents .

Yah thats probably true but towing a heavy load with the gear vender would always have you in the sweet spot! Besides how cool would that be! 12 Forward gears! I here the French who just picked up 200 Dodge 1 ton dually 4x4s had a diffrent Transmission installed. It has 1 forward gear and 6 reverse!

ok Now that was funny .... true but funny

Just got back from the Dodge dealership. They will give me 24K for my Dodge. My truck built out to 55K (Mega Cab 4x4 diesel dually 6.7 6 speed) Its pretty much fully loaded. They cant order it yet but I wilol finalize the deal on Monday. They will give me a estimated ship date then? OK but anyway its pretty much done. I am dissapointed with the local Ford dealership. They still havent given me a price for my truck trade in yet. This has been going on for three weeks trying to get a build price for my truck (which took Dodge 5 minutes in his office) Finally got that and now this delay in the price of my truck trade in value. Took the Dodge guy all of two minutes to look that up! Looks like Dodge will be getting my business. I dont know how people think you can stay in business buy treating a customer like this!

Just checked. Its taken them almost exactly 30 days to get me my build quote!

Snowcat Operations said:

Yah thats probably true but towing a heavy load with the gear vender would always have you in the sweet spot! Besides how cool would that be! 12 Forward gears! I here the French who just picked up 200 Dodge 1 ton dually 4x4s had a diffrent Transmission installed. It has 1 forward gear and 6 reverse!

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Using them for military vehicles, I suppose!