Pulling 135' of wire underground -- aargh!

I want to get some video cable and data cables out to the pool shed so I can set up a phone, WiFi repeater, remote pool and spa controls, and a couple cameras out at the pool house. My friendly electrician showed up and I get to be the 'assistant' on the job. Most everything has gone pretty smooth so far. Wires were run down to the basement. Wires were run to the computer control panel for the swimming pool control panel, etc etc.

Now comes time for "the big pull" and nothing is going right. First we can't get the fish tape through, it keeps getting stuck on a joint. My idea worked of running tape from both sides so that the primary tape 'slips' by the joint. OK things are now looking up. Unfortunately that was after digging up the yard, finding the problematic joint, listening to diagnose the problem, etc

So finally we get the tape through, affix the wires for the pull. All is going well. . . for about 85' . . . damn.

Second attempt . . . failed.

I just pulled 225' of 10/2 wire and a cat 5 cable out to my wife's gazebo a few weeks ago with no issues; just my wife and I. I'm assuming that you didn't use a single piece of conduit. Since I had to go under several slabs of concrete and under a water line, gas line, cable TV line and phone line, I just ran the directional boring machine at a 5'6" depth and pulled an 1 1/2" single piece of gas line for conduit. I had to use a few adapters on each end to get to schedule 80 PVC coming out of the ground, but all worked well.

I have the same thing out to the dock on my lake and even out to the island in the middle of my lake. I have a very 'busy' yard when it comes to underground lines, but the only thing that is too shallow is the cable TV line put in by the cable company. They just used a vibra-plow and buried their cable between 4" and 6" deep. That really sucks when it comes time to plow, till, cultipack and re-seed areas to make them smooth. I like all of my deeper buried lines and no joints in the lines.

Third try . . . failed.

New plan. Not going to run the video cable (which is actually thicker than 2 cat 5 cables because it runs a video feed and an insulated power cable.

The original plan was Cat 5 cables + the video feed.

Now it will be 3 Cat 5 cables. One will serve as video feed, but will have to be powered in the pool shed with a transformer at the shed.


Brent, I had a 1/2" conduit in there just for a phone line and the pool's remote control panel. That all could have been done with 1 cat 5 cable as the pool panel needs 4 strands and the phone only 2. But then after that conduit was cemented over with a walkway and a patio I started to dream bigger. And I always like to have no less than 2 free wires just in case of future failures.

So we hatched the plan, 1 Cat 5 for the phone and pool, which gives me my 2 extra wires for safety, plus the video cable for a powered camera. Plus another cat 5 cable for more fun stuff down the road. Simply can't get all that through the 1/2" pipe. But since I've got 2 spools of Cat 5 cable (1000' each) it actually gives me more future capacity to use 3 Cat 5 cables and eliminate the video feed. The video will run over twisted pair phone wire, it just needs to have different connectors on each end and it needs transformers to power each camera.

Got to go. Been at break too long. This is NOT a Union Job!

Melensdad said:

Second attempt . . . failed.

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Are you using a lubricant?

Ideal makes some yellow stuff that's good.

Jim

jim slagle said:

Are you using a lubricant?

Ideal makes some yellow stuff that's good.

Jim

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Yeah, KY dries up too fast...

Me thinks it is time for Bob to stop said exercise in frustration and find one of the many contractors who have smaller underground directional boring machines just sitting. Making half of their normal charge generally is better than having the machines just sit. That 1 1/2" plastic gas pipe is surprisingly affordable and very, very durable. My only issues I ever had was running 0000 copper wires out to my barn through a 4" conduit. One hundred yards of it. That sucked!!! Therefore, I know a bit of what Bob is going through. That's why I say it's time for him to grab his favorite cigar, favorite cold beverage and surf the web for contractors who advertise directional boring in his area. I got my guy down to $0.45 a foot. I just sat and watched. Sure was easier than when I thought I was going to die getting those heavy ass 0000 wires through that 4" pipe!

why couldn't you have run the wires through the pipe before you buried it?

LUBE: Yes. Almost a full bottle.

Finally got the 3 cat 5 cables pulled through!

So now I can have my phone, my remote control panel for the pool (which includes lights on the shed, lights on the decorative block walls, spa motor, pool motor, heater, pool LED lighting, etc) and have wires left over for the all the video cameras I can dream of placing on the shed.

The problem with bringing in a directional boring machine, etc is that I've already got all the concrete in place, I'd have to break out the floor of the pool shed to dig down to where the new bore hole comes in. That would be far worse than this.

We have a dial tone at the pool!!!

People are celebrating (at least him and me). Beer is flowing. Things are progressing at a slower rate. Something tells me this project is turning into a 2 day event.

Melensdad said:

We have a dial tone at the pool!!!

People are celebrating (at least him and me). Beer is flowing. Things are progressing at a slower rate. Something tells me this project is turning into a 2 day event.

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Don't ya know? You NEVER break out the beer until the project is complete!!!!!

Trakternut said:

Don't ya know? You NEVER break out the beer until the project is complete!!!!!

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Yup that is a serious flaw in my work ethic.

But we didn't get a lunch break.

Melensdad said:

we didn't get a lunch break.

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Ohhhhhhhhh, that changes everything then.

Steady as she goes!

Melensdad said:

LUBE: Yes. Almost a full bottle.

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I think I see the problem. Don't leave it in the bottle, you have to put it on the wire!

Done for the day.

Tomorrow should be a short day, which is good because I have a group shoot at one of the local gun ranges and I have to be there in time to do the cooking (because I bring the BBQ grill). Wiring up 1 exterior light fixture, 2 duplex outlet boxes in the pool shed, and doing the finish connections for the remote pool control panel.

For under ground I don't run any thing under 3/4" and most of the time I run 1' and a spare conduit the pvc is the cheapest part.

Im sure next time you will up size your pipe.

tom

tommu56 said:

For under ground I don't run any thing under 3/4" and most of the time I run 1' and a spare conduit the pvc is the cheapest part.

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You are far wiser than I.

I use 1 1/4 black water pipe for conduit on long runs. Take a vac and suck a mason twine through it. Lube it well and pull whatever you need. My place is a lot like Dargo's with stuff buried everywhere. At my old farm I plowed in over 1600 ft. of electric out to the gun range and my tree stand.

Melensdad said:

You are far wiser than I.

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not wiser I just got in your situation to many times on retrofits

muleman said:

I use 1 1/4 black water pipe for conduit on long runs. Take a vac and suck a mason twine through it. Lube it well and pull whatever you need. My place is a lot like Dargo's with stuff buried everywhere. At my old farm I plowed in over 1600 ft. of electric out to the gun range and my tree stand.

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Ive used that too nice soothe bends no couplings to hang up and it won't leak in low lying wet areas.

tommu56 said:

For under ground I don't run any thing under 3/4" and most of the time I run 1' and a spare conduit the pvc is the cheapest part.

Im sure next time you will up size your pipe.

tom

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When I built my house back in '92, I put 1-1/2" PVC sleeves under every concrete walkway and the driveway. I have used them a number of times, and was always glad I did that.

When I was an electrical contractor back in the '80's, it was common practice to install a junction box every 50' (underground as well). We would often use these boxes to add more wire lube on long runs, because the pipe would rub off the lube and friction would build up with a large bundle of wires.

Melensdad said:

The problem with bringing in a directional boring machine, etc is that I've already got all the concrete in place, I'd have to break out the floor of the pool shed to dig down to where the new bore hole comes in. That would be far worse than this.

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That's sort of like where I'm getting my power; from my barn. It has a 12" concrete floor in it. No digging through it. However, it's simple to run a 1 1/2" schedule 80 (per code) out right at floor level and then drop immediately below ground outside the building. My wife planted a small decorative plant in front of them and they are unseen. For the lengths I have to run, I've always used 1 1/2" single piece conduit. I added a cat 5 cable out to the dock (wifi won't reach anywhere close to there) and it didn't take my wife and I an hour to complete the whole job.

I think those directional boring machines are so cool I looked to buy a used one on IronPlanet. With most missing almost all their rods and others looking like they've been dragged to job sites; besides the high price, I passed. A friend has a nice one and he doesn't have a mini excavator. His smallest excavator is 40 tons. I've been lucky and traded out work with him. I just dug the 9' deep basement for my electrician's new house (with a 12' deep 10X15 "shelter" dug into the bottom of it) and am now waiting for him to hook up my big generator before winter gets here.

Dargo said:

That's sort of like where I'm getting my power; from my barn. It has a 12" concrete floor in it. No digging through it. However, it's simple to run a 1 1/2" schedule 80 (per code) out right at floor level and then drop immediately below ground outside the building. . .

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Not an option for me.

In the case of my pool shed, it sits on a concrete pad, with concrete patio on 2 sides of it, and with a concrete wall on the other 2 sides! Other than running an overhead wire on a pole, the only practical way to bring the wires into that shed was in the (way too small) 1/2 inch conduit I set in place before the concrete was put in.

So since I needed more outlets to run the video cameras, and since I have plenty of power in there, I simply added a couple more duplex outlet boxes. The video cable that we eliminated would have powered the camera, but it just didn't fit. Substituting a Cat 5 cable actually allows me to put in 4 video cameras (don't need that many) but the capacity is there!