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  #41  
Old 07-28-2010, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

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Originally Posted by Dargo View Post
What kind of watch do you wear?
OK, got me on that one.

While I do have a couple cheap watches, a daily wear watch that is 'expensive' is often on my wrist. But I don't necessarily consider an expensive watch the equivalent to an expensive machine. An expensive watch is sometimes justified by gold content, hand cut gears, enduring craftsmanship, etc. It still just tells time. Now that said, I will spend money on a Breitling, RGM or Piaget, but not on a Rolex. Two machines that do the same job may not be equal, but may be similar enough that there is no need to spend the extra money, is the NH a Rolex or is it an RGM? Both can cost the same but one, to me, imparts real value and craftsmanship while the other, to the public, imparts status. I'm not about showing others what I have or don't have. To me the finest watches are often those that very few people know.
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

If I was a salesman then I could tell a lot about the person by the type of watch they were wearing.

A fancy watch may indicate that you:

A. Have lots of money
B. Care about quality
C. Want to appear to have lots of money
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melensdad View Post
OK, got me on that one.

While I do have a couple cheap watches, a daily wear watch that is 'expensive' is often on my wrist. But I don't necessarily consider an expensive watch the equivalent to an expensive machine. An expensive watch is sometimes justified by gold content, hand cut gears, enduring craftsmanship, etc. It still just tells time. Now that said, I will spend money on a Breitling, RGM or Piaget, but not on a Rolex. Two machines that do the same job may not be equal, but may be similar enough that there is no need to spend the extra money, is the NH a Rolex or is it an RGM? Both can cost the same but one, to me, imparts real value and craftsmanship while the other, to the public, imparts status. I'm not about showing others what I have or don't have. To me the finest watches are often those that very few people know.
However, a wristwatch is still, in general, but not always, a depreciating asset. Or, it is an asset you would plan on passing along to a family member or friend. I doubt you'll keep this potential new tractor until you die. You may, but I doubt it. Like me, when you turn the key, you expect everything to work as intended. Nothing will last forever. Agreed?

I'm going to use my current JD 5525 tractor for an example. Right now most prices for which similar tractors have sold, sold for about $4500 to $5000 more than I paid for my 5525 four years ago. As you know, this is not by a long shot the first time I've experienced this with a tractor. However, I'm not in the mood to sell it because it still fits my needs, is the right size and works flawlessly. If you recall, I also considered a far less expensive tractor (no, not a Kioti in this example!) that had similar specs but was far less money. Right now, if I had purchased that other tractor, it would be worth about 47% of my purchase price. At first blush, someone would say that I paid far more for my JD tractor. Did I really?

Back to your watches. I'm wearing a relatively inexpensive Seiko right now. It's okay, but for all intents and purposes, it's a 'throw away' watch. What is a 5 year old used Seiko watch worth now? About $250 less than I paid for it 5 years ago; about nothing. On one of my first cruises to St. Thomas USVI, I bought a Tag. OMG!!! I bought it based on the advice of a friend who likely has more in his watch collection than I have in my home. With the deal I got on the watch, the estimated value of it in it's current condition is about the same as what I paid for it over 10 years ago. Which watch has cost me more?

I'm simply applying the same concept to tractors. With one you have a long track record and a known high resale value with very good reliability. With the other, most of those items are an unknown. Quality has been improving. Fit and finish has been improving. However, what about resale? At some point you will no longer own that tractor. Will the resale be the same?

At auto dealerships there are still some old fellas who come in and want a pickup with NO options; not even A/C in our area. They don't want to pay for that option. However, they trade about every 5 years or so and I can show them where the deduct for no A/C is about double what A/C would have cost them in the first place. Would they really save money by passing on A/C? Professor Rosenberg would be asking you to look beneath the surface, now wouldn't he. What would James Joyce be if you only viewed his writings on the surface?

I'm simply suggesting you look at all known factors, unknown factors, your particular needs, and then weigh in on what tractor would really suit you the best over the time frame which you would own it.
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBinWA View Post
If I was a salesman then I could tell a lot about the person by the type of watch they were wearing.

A fancy watch may indicate that you:

A. Have lots of money
B. Care about quality
C. Want to appear to have lots of money
I don't wear my 'fancy' Seiko if I'm working outside. I wear my $9.95 Timex Ironman digital. That includes anytime I'm going anywhere and I may be doing work outdoors. What does that tell you about me?
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  #45  
Old 07-28-2010, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Tactors = watches...........

What did I miss here?

FWIW, I wear a $16 watch from Target.......when I wear a watch; my cell phone/Blackberry can tell time just fine.

Oh, and I have a small herd of John Deere tractors........

K
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  #46  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

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Originally Posted by Dargo View Post
I don't wear my 'fancy' Seiko if I'm working outside. I wear my $9.95 Timex Ironman digital. That includes anytime I'm going anywhere and I may be doing work outdoors. What does that tell you about me?
Not as much as the guy with the fancy watch who just walked into the dealership.
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  #47  
Old 07-28-2010, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

FWIW, I consider a TAG to be a reasonably inexpensive watch. It is one of the watches I would wear while tractoring, mucking about in the yard, etc.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

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Originally Posted by Melensdad View Post
FWIW, I consider a TAG to be a reasonably inexpensive watch. It is one of the watches I would wear while tractoring, mucking about in the yard, etc.
Then you should see my point.
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  #49  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:50 AM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

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Originally Posted by Dargo View Post
Then you should see my point.
No actually I don't, at least not with a TAG-Heuer. While they are good machine made watches, they run the price gamut from roughly $100 to Many Thousands of Dollars and mostly are fashion accessories. The brand is promoted more as a stylish watch than as a technically excellent watch. Flash for the wrist as opposed to a complicated timepiece of extraordinary craftsmanship. That is my main gripe with Rolex, it is nothing more than expensive jewelry to adorn the wrist.

I don't see either of these tractors as having extraordinary craftsmanship. While this particular tractor search of mine has revealed that my past choice of New Holland was an excellent choice that is still holding up well against larger and more powerful competitors, it was also priced competitively when I purchased it. Not the cheapest tractor in the market, but clearly not at the massive price disadvantage that is shown in this current bit of tractor shopping.

This time we have a roughly 20% price spread between these two brands when compared with similar options. My question is, is one actually worth 20% more than the other? Brand value may favor the New Holland. Craftsmanship may favor the New Holland. Even resale/trade-in value may favor the New Holland. But to the tune of 20%?
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

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Originally Posted by Melensdad View Post
This time we have a roughly 20% price spread between these two brands when compared with similar options. My question is, is one actually worth 20% more than the other? Brand value may favor the New Holland. Craftsmanship may favor the New Holland. Even resale/trade-in value may favor the New Holland. But to the tune of 20%?
No on all counts, IMO ............. This would be easy if there was trust in a dealer ............. . The Korean tractors are getting very popular because of quality and cost, even though they might not be as pretty as you like or of a rougher cast ........... come on Bob.

I have some issue with the close "dealer" issue. My only thought would be to have a competent dealer in case it needs worked on. IMO, it doesn't have to be around the corner.

How many times has your tractors been back to the dealer? Mine has never been back since I brought it home. So what if it takes a hour or 2 to get it to him. Find any brand dealer with favorable rep of the brand you want and buy the tractor. No matter what you decide and how much you scrutinize, the chances of being happy are as much as being sad.
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Local dealer is only important if they are quality dealers. My local dealers are long established high quality dealers, so I don't need to search out distant brands/dealers.

My tractor has been back twice that I can think of. One time for a loader recall warranty fix, one time to have a rear remote valve installed. However, having a local dealer is just as important for the times that I need to go there for misc small parts, fluids, implement purchases, etc.

But now I am really beginning to re-think this whole potential purchase.

To step up over the CAPACITY of what I have, I have to step up in size significantly. My TC24d is heavy for its size, but I'm looking at going up to tractors that are substantially longer, wider and heavier and I don't know that I want to do that.

To trade up to the Kubota or Cub/Yanmar really does not give me any significant advantage in capacity.

To trade up to a larger NH or Bobcat gives me a significant advantage in capacity but also a significant size increase and that would eliminate some of the uses for the tractor.

BTW, the Bobcat demo has been pushed off to TUESDAY of next week. In between now and then I will go back to Kubota and NH and see if I even want to pursue this upgrade by double checking the sizes of these tractors. When this quest started I wanted to upgrade to get capacity. When I really studied the next step up in machine HP and size I found that the capacity was already in my machine and there is no significant reason to go up the next step. That forces me to go up 2 steps and 2 steps in size gives me a real change in capacity but brings with it problems that caused me to choose my TC24d the last time I was shopping!!!
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melensdad View Post
Local dealer is only important if they are quality dealers. My local dealers are long established high quality dealers, so I don't need to search out distant brands/dealers.

My tractor has been back twice that I can think of. One time for a loader recall warranty fix, one time to have a rear remote valve installed. However, having a local dealer is just as important for the times that I need to go there for misc small parts, fluids, implement purchases, etc.

But now I am really beginning to re-think this whole potential purchase.

To step up over the CAPACITY of what I have, I have to step up in size significantly. My TC24d is heavy for its size, but I'm looking at going up to tractors that are substantially longer, wider and heavier and I don't know that I want to do that.

To trade up to the Kubota or Cub/Yanmar really does not give me any significant advantage in capacity.

To trade up to a larger NH or Bobcat gives me a significant advantage in capacity but also a significant size increase and that would eliminate some of the uses for the tractor.

BTW, the Bobcat demo has been pushed off to TUESDAY of next week. In between now and then I will go back to Kubota and NH and see if I even want to pursue this upgrade by double checking the sizes of these tractors. When this quest started I wanted to upgrade to get capacity. When I really studied the next step up in machine HP and size I found that the capacity was already in my machine and there is no significant reason to go up the next step. That forces me to go up 2 steps and 2 steps in size gives me a real change in capacity but brings with it problems that caused me to choose my TC24d the last time I was shopping!!!
Could you elaborate more on the "size" and the restrictions for "size". Are we talking specifically on weight, I assume so? I don't see a significant difference between a 66" wide tractor vs. 72" wide tractor. Are you doing R-4"s? Wheel base is a non-issue between the "3" sizes you refer IMO.
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Less concern about weight, more concern about physical size.

My gates are 60" wide, my tractor is 54" wide, gives me just enough room to get through. My paths are also narrow, my turns are tight. My property is sloped and some of my landscaping is set up to accomodate my tractor's ability to maneuver. Going up in size to a tractor that is a foot+ wider, and foot and a half longer, with implements that will also be wider and longer simply may not fit in much of my work areas.

Now it would be nice to work in the open areas, but much of my property is NOT open area.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Interesting thread Bob. I don't fully understand your dilemma. Since you already have a great smaller tractor why not go with a bigger one for the chores where you need the bigger capacity? I've seen you post of moving your pool, so surely you can make your 5 ft gates wider to accommodate the larger tractor. That would be a small job compared to moving a pool.

I doubt you remember but when I was tractor shopping I was looking at the Kubota 2410 and was drooling over the 2710 and 2910 (like the one you used to have). When I was ready to pull the trigger on the 2910 dang if Kubota was not discontinuing the Grand L 3010 and I could get it for a few hundred dollars difference. Lots more tractor for a few hundred dollars. My dilemma at the time was I thought I could haul the 2910 on my current trailer and knew I could not haul the 3010 (it was to wide). I went for the 3010 anyway and I am so glad I did. With the extra capacity the extra size comes in handy. I've done so much more with the 3010 than I ever imagined I'd do with the 2910. I can still maneuver on my trails though some spots are a bit tight, and some spots I widened my trail for maneuverability with my tractor.

So I was focusing on one issue that turned out to be a non issue since the dealer will pick up and deliver my tractor if a visit to the dealer is needed (only one so far). Overall I lucked into the best tractor for my uses. You might find you are doing the same thing on the size issue. Gates can be made wider and to get a tractor that could do more for you it would be worth that effort.

I remember folks on TBN saying no one ever complained about getting to big of a tractor, and I'll admit after I bought my 3010 I wondered if I had really screwed up and got to big. Time has proved to me over and over again that I got the right tractor for me in the 3010. I have a feeling that if you got the bigger footprint tractor that would prove to be the case for you also since you already have a small powerhouse sitting in your garage.
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  #55  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Bob, I think you are looking at this wrong. Don't get rid of the Blue Beast (and they are a beast for their size, as I have one too).

Just get the bigger tractor and have it when you need it and can use it and then have the NH when the other one won't fit or the Bobcat breaks down. You just need to go back to being a 2 (or 10) tractor guy.
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Bob,

Look at this tractor purchase the same way you do your guns. Each one has a purpose. Buy a tractor to meet a need/want. If it's too big then plan on renting a piece of equipment for the time the project requires.

If there's no statistical difference between your current tractor and a new purchase it doesn't make fiscal sense to buy. Rent when you need the capacity. It sounds like you're happy with your NH but are wanting to scratch an "itch".

Too bad a John Deere dealer isn't available.

What Doc and Jim said is soooooo true!

K
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

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Less concern about weight, more concern about physical size.
Then, clearly, you need a small skid steer. You do know they make them with 4 wheel steer so they don't tear up the lawn, don't you? Skid steers are considerably stronger than tractors when it comes to FEL work.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

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No actually I don't, at least not with a TAG-Heuer. While they are good machine made watches, they run the price gamut from roughly $100 to Many Thousands of Dollars and mostly are fashion accessories.
Ok, what part did you miss? You do know that most criminals would cut your hand off to steal a TAG. Yet, you consider such a 'knock around' watch. The point is, will Bob ever be truly happy with a 2nd tier tractor?? The only difference in the watch analogy is that the TAG I bought has retained 100% of it's initial value; like most of the tractors I've purchased. I don't know about you, but I've become accustomed to basically using my tractors free, since they have almost never lost value while I've owned them. With that being the fact, how would paying less for another tractor, but losing half of what I paid for it when I sell it, cost me less?
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

Bob i've been reading this how about this for an answer buy a kubota and make Big Al feel good because you have some thing the same color as his kristy.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?

I've got back to tractor shopping.

Here is what I have learned. My little New Holland is a damn fine tractor. It has lift capacities for the 3pt and the FEL that are superior to anything else in its class, and further it has capacities for those that are the equal -or near equal- of tractors the next frame size larger.

So since my little tractor is big on capacity, the only choice I really have is to go up 2 frame sizes.

I looked at several brands at our county fair. Honestly the only 2 left in consideration are the Bobcat ct235 and the New Holland 2030 or 2035. I'm leaning toward the Bobcat. Both dealers are very strong, the New Holland dealer is closer to me but I expect both to be equal in terms of parts/service so that is a toss up.
3pt Lift Capacity at 24" behind the ball eyes:
  • Bobcat ct235 = 1508#
  • New Holland 2030 = 1635#
Weight of tractor:
  • Bobcat ct235 = 3056#
  • New Holland 2030 = 2605#
FEL capacity: BREAKOUT FORCE @ pivot pins
  • Bobcat ct235 = est. 2500#
  • New Holland 2030 = 2700#
FEL capacity: Capacity at full height @ 500mm forward of pins.
  • Bobcat ct235 = 1225#
  • New Holland 2030 = 1183#
PTO Horsepower:
  • Bobcat ct235 = 26.5
  • New Holland 2030 = 24.5 (28.9 for the 2035)
Specs are pretty close, with the obvious edge going to to the New Holland. The New Holland is also slightly more compact in most every way. However, the price of the New Holland is roughly $5000 more than the Bobcat.

So I come back to the questions I had before and ask is 100# of extra lift capacity on the 3pt worth $5000 more out of my pocket for the NEW HOLLAND when the FEL simultaneously has less capacity? The cost difference is partially due to incentives currently being offered by Bobcat, no such incentives were available from NH. I cannot justify the cost difference, even if the resale value of the NH would be higher.
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