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Old 01-13-2020, 11:25 PM
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Default Parts price padding.

I'm currently looking at an engine replacement in an 86 F250 (302)
I got a quote on the job today, and was looking at some of the prices in the quote.
I know everybody needs to make money.
I also know auto shops get a break on parts prices.

They listed some things by actual part numbers.

For example they listed the starter (NNE 4N9227) @$244
That number popped up on line at NAPA for $129.

Or harmonic balancer (NOE 6005225) @$217. NAPA $97.99

There's more, but I'd like to hear what you all think.

Would you say this is normal/acceptable for a garage, or is this completely out of line?

Thanks
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Way out of line. I suppose they could be including labor in that price but I doubt that is the case.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Are they buying OEM parts or aftermarket parts. You might ask. If I remember correctly, the dealer list price for a CPS on my Crossfire is $119.00 O'Reilly's has a generic for about $29.00

One says Bosch the other has a bar code. Both likely come from the same factory in China.

The book puts installation at one hour. Actually about ten minutes is required.

The shop I use tell me they mark up 25% to 50% on most parts. Not including engines or transmissions. One reason is the labor time spent on determining the part and sourcing it. Then, the cost of delivery to the shop.

This is outside the labor for actual installation which must also include the time needed for disassembly of the faulty part. Most shop use a price/labor/time guide for repairs. It generally over estimates the actual time.

Sometimes they have to purchase from a car dealer which will have a mark up on a mark up. Generally they will ask me if they must use NOS or can they source generic replacement. That can save you money but you run the risk of the part being substandard.

And of course, like any product line, brand names usually cost more.
I've been using this shop since 1977. In that time I've been friends with the fathers, sons and now the grandsons. Given the size of my fleet, I think I have most likely put several of their kids through college.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

My In Laws ran a rather large sized used car dealership up until 2003 when they sold the business.

For parts they would get a discount at say NAPA and price the part at the over the counter price. This usually afforded them a 15-20% profit on the parts.Fair and reasonable. When the customer got the bill, they would see they were charged the same as what they would have paid for it. They were happy. Happy means return customers. Return customers means more work, more employments and more profits.

He made money at this, usually employing at least two full time mechanics, one to service the cars he was selling and one for general repair, rust proofing and the like.

It was a different world back then. No comparison. The internet has changed everything.

An example. For grins and chuckles, a few years back I had a mechanic I like quote me on 4 new KYB shocks installed on my Ranger. Price: $450.00. I found the exact same shocks on Rock Auto for $150 with a 50 dollar rebate. I did them myself. How long does it take to change them out with a lift, all the pneumatic tools and blue wrench if needed? I did it on my back in the driveway in about two hours, tops
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Thanks for the replies.
It appears from here (and elsewhere) that it's not uncommon for shops to mark up prices for profit factors.

It's been a long time since I had and engine replaced.
The last one was almost 20 years ago in Southwind motorhome, it was a 454.
Granted, I broke down in Tucumcari (don't ever do this) but by the time they were done the bill was $6K.

I've got a pretty nice 86 F250 I'm going to do an engine replacement on.
To keep a long story short.....it needs a new engine.

I have not the time nor desire nor appropriate shop to do the job myself, and I also have no desire to swap in an engine from a junkyard.

Everything works on this truck, from the AC, 4WD, trans all the way down to the crappy AM/FM radio.
No rust, not a dent on it.

Living as remote as I do, I need my vehicles 100% reliable.

So my thought is wanting to put a solid engine that I won't possibly ever have to worry about ever again.

Most long block swaps entail putting a bunch of the old stuff back on, alternator, water pump, starter, injectors etc.
My thinking is while the thing is out and there, why not replace it all?

I think it would suck ass to get a job like this done then have an injector or some old part go out sometime soon down the road.

So I got a quote yesterday.
They have nothing in the shop at the moment, and say they can knock this out in about a week.
Reviews on the shop are the usual internet claptrap from great to awful, more to the great side.

Bottom line:
Jasper engine, (3 years, 100,000K warranty)new alt, new starter, new harmonic balancer, new radiator, new injectors, some repair of a burned injector harness and some misc.

Parts:$4800
Labor: $2800

What do you folks think?
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

At this point, none of this matters, the trigger has been pulled.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

So, you're goanna have $7,600 into a truck worth what, four grand. But, it's yours, paid for and likely not replaceable for less that $20K used to $60K new.

or worse.

Go with the repairs.

BTW, New radios are fairly cheap

My '95 Dodge one ton is getting a full make over, paint and parts this winter. Total job about $12K and counts nothing that might be needed on the Cummins Diesel engine. 330K on the clock

Resale value when done? $8k to$10K at best. But a New one cost over $65K and will likely not go 330,000 miles. And yes, I pulled the trigger also.
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
So, you're goanna have $7,600 into a truck worth what, four grand. But, it's yours, paid for and likely not replaceable for less that $20K used to $60K new.

or worse.

Go with the repairs.

BTW, New radios are fairly cheap

My '95 Dodge one ton is getting a full make over, paint and parts this winter. Total job about $12K and counts nothing that might be needed on the Cummins Diesel engine. 330K on the clock

Resale value when done? $8k to$10K at best. But a New one cost over $65K and will likely not go 330,000 miles. And yes, I pulled the trigger also.
It's a hard pill to swallow, but not so difficult when one compares to brand new, plus, every year starting in the 80's sometime, things just got harder and harder to work on.
EFI is already above my hands-on knowledge, but it's nothing at all like trying to even find the spark plugs on a new truck. (I think you have to pull the engine )
It's hard to believe though it's gonna cost almost as much to replace an engine today as the whole truck cost brand new off the showroom floor.

Fortunately this truck was well cared for before I bought it, and has resided in the Southwest saltless environment its whole life.

I also have a 95 F250 with the 7.3 diesel, ironically, mine also has 330K and is running strong.
My hope is to keep that work horse off to side until those times when I need to move around the heavy loads and trailers.

Good luck with your project!
And thanks for the pep talk.
I need it.
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  #9  
Old 01-15-2020, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Now that is a nice truck ! We've been doing Barrett-Jackson show this week, it's good, but I enjoy seeing all the old but rust free iron on the roads.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

If I had a rust free Ford truck like that, I'd fix it up.

I have a 1990 diesel F350 with only 140k that's not allowed out in the winter. That's fine because duallies aren't that great in snow. Dealer thought they had a rust bucket coming for an inspection sticker last summer...boy, were they surprised.
Now, if I could just get paint to stay on it.....

That same dealer does Toyota but doesn't stock much for parts. They get chinese stuff from an auto parts place. I get my own parts on Amazon and bring them and they don't care.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J5 Bombardier View Post
Now that is a nice truck ! We've been doing Barrett-Jackson show this week, it's good, but I enjoy seeing all the old but rust free iron on the roads.
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Thank you!
I truly think this is one of the ones that falls under "Ford tough".
The model is an XLT.
Everything is a little beefier all the way down to the larger than stock wheel lugs.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

If it were a 300 six I'd be all over it and a happy man. You didn't state anywhere as to transmission standard / auto? I've had two 300's with standards and was a satisfied man. Also owned two 302's with sticks and they just couldn't cut it like the sixes could at getting a load rolling and heading down the road. They may be perfectly fine with a automatic with the slippage needed built into the transmission itself but they fell short as I owned them with a stick.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

I guess I will add my voice to the chorus that is encouraging you to go for it. Those trucks have been gone up here for 15 years now due to rust.

Fighting corrosion due to road salt is a never ending almost full time job for me on my 05 Ranger. I cannot imagine trying to keep it like that for another 19 years.

Seeing that 86 totally rust free wants to bring tears to my eyes, in a good way.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

The thing is, no matter how much you spend on it, no matter how hard you try, it will never be a new truck.

However, it will be yours and paid for. Big PLUS!
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The thing is, no matter how much you spend on it, no matter how hard you try, it will never be a new truck.

However, it will be yours and paid for. Big PLUS!
Dude.
I have never owned a NEW truck.
So, no surprises here!
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:58 PM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bannedjoe View Post
Dude.
I have never owned a NEW truck.
So, no surprises here!
I almost always buy used. But when looking for a used Truck back in 1995, we found that the payments on a four year old FORD diesel matched the payment on the new Dodge with a Cummins. Partly due to rebates on the Cummins, and partly because the dealer had this one on his lot for 6 months. No one in tony Ellisville MO was interested in a standard cab five speed manual long bed with dually's. All they buy down there is bling'ed up Toy Tonka's

$21K brand-new for a $28K sticker. No money down.

Same truck today; $55K on a good day.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I almost always buy used. But when looking for a used Truck back in 1995, we found that the payments on a four year old FORD diesel matched the payment on the new Dodge with a Cummins. Partly due to rebates on the Cummins, and partly because the dealer had this one on his lot for 6 months. No one in tony Ellisville MO was interested in a standard cab five speed manual long bed with dually's. All they buy down there is bling'ed up Toy Tonka's

$21K brand-new for a $28K sticker. No money down.

Same truck today; $55K on a good day.
Yup, I understand.

I can't believe just about all you see these days are the large cabs with a short bed.
AFAIC, if you can't lay a sheet of plywood flat in the bed with the tailgate closed, it ain't a pickup truck.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bannedjoe View Post
Yup, I understand.

I can't believe just about all you see these days are the large cabs with a short bed.
AFAIC, if you can't lay a sheet of plywood flat in the bed with the tailgate closed, it ain't a pickup truck.
I get what you are saying, but I sure do a lot of work with my CC w/ a 6.5 bed and a Duramax under the hood :) It pulls my trailers like there isn't anything even back there.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

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I get what you are saying, but I sure do a lot of work with my CC w/ a 6.5 bed and a Duramax under the hood :) It pulls my trailers like there isn't anything even back there.
Actually, I believe the attraction of the short bed pickup is to have a four/five seater cab that can do well as a tow vehicle. Most sedans/ SUV's will not do well as a tow tug. It makes sense not to have a 20 foot long grocery getter just so yo can haul lumber with the tailgate closed.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Parts price padding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Actually, I believe the attraction of the short bed pickup is to have a four/five seater cab that can do well as a tow vehicle. Most sedans/ SUV's will not do well as a tow tug. It makes sense not to have a 20 foot long grocery getter just so yo can haul lumber with the tailgate closed.
I really wanted the long bed, but in GM you just don't find a ton of them. So when I found this one fresh off a 1 year lease with 13k and priced right, I jumped on it before I lost it.
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