• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Shitites Chant "Death to Israel, Death to America

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Actually I was wondering if Israel has not over-played its hand and is taking a bit to long, with a bit too much collateral damage. The formally modestly good relations between the Lebanese government and the Israeli government is no longer cooperative.

No question that Hezbolla is nuts. No question that most rational people believe that Hezbolla must be defanged of its military capabilities. No question that Iran & Syria are behind and backing Hezbolla, and there is no quesiton that some of these leaders are insane. But at some point very quickly Israel needs to wrap up their push north or world opinion will really turn against them; it is already turning but is not completely turned yet.
 

daedong

New member
B_Skurka said:
Actually I was wondering if Israel has not over-played its hand and is taking a bit to long, with a bit too much collateral damage. The formally modestly good relations between the Lebanese government and the Israeli government is no longer cooperative.

No question that Hezbolla is nuts. No question that most rational people believe that Hezbolla must be defanged of its military capabilities. No question that Iran & Syria are behind and backing Hezbolla, and there is no quesiton that some of these leaders are insane. But at some point very quickly Israel needs to wrap up their push north or world opinion will really turn against them; it is already turning but is not completely turned yet.

Bob, I agree totally.

Cityboy, your style of delivering the message is excessive and does your credibility no good.
 

Cityboy

Banned
The "world" is already largely against Israel and the U.S. for that matter. Nothing new there. Israel is better off going 100% against their enemys and crushing them completely. Anything less is simply delaying the inevetable. Every Muslim country desires nothing more than to see Israel wiped off the map. It is only a matter of time before we see the nuclear flash on TV, from one side or the other.

It all boils down to religous fanatacism on both sides. The Muslims are commanded to kill the Israeli infidels; and the Israeli's belive their piece of desert real estate in the middle of Islam's hornets nest is their promised land. The Muslims will not allow Israel to live in peace in their little sand box, and the Israeli's will never leave. The problem for the rest of the free world is that Islam has no intention of stopping their quest for world domination even in the unlikely event they can kick the Jews out of Israel.
 

daedong

New member
Cityboy said:
The "world" is already largely against Israel and the U.S. for that matter. Nothing new there. Israel is better off going 100% against their enemys and crushing them completely. Anything less is simply delaying the inevetable. Every Muslim country desires nothing more than to see Israel wiped off the map. It is only a matter of time before we see the nuclear flash on TV, from one side or the other.

It all boils down to religous fanatacism on both sides. The Muslims are commanded to kill the Israeli infidels; and the Israeli's belive their piece of desert real estate in the middle of Islam's hornets nest is their promised land. The Muslims will not allow Israel to live in peace in their little sand box, and the Israeli's will never leave. The problem for the rest of the free world is that Islam has no intention of stopping their quest for world domination even in the unlikely event they can kick the Jews out of Israel.

Cityboy, Much better delivered, I do actually agree with you on this
 

Cityboy

Banned
daedong said:
Bob, I agree totally.

Cityboy, your style of delivering the message is excessive and does your credibility no good.

Now Vin, lets not get the credibility thing stirred up. You can choose to talk about the subject at hand, but discussion of my delivery makes the thread personal. You know how I feel about Islam and fanatical chanting Muslims who chant "death to America" and other such nonsense. You know how I feel about any government religion that threatens my freedom and liberty. I will never bow to the little tin gods of political correctness. I'm not going to get into a debate concerning my delivery, or yours, for that matter. I know you look at the Muslim issue different than I do; and that is OK. While I vehemently disagree with your opinions concerning Muslims, I respect your opinions, but have no concern of your delivery of the subject. So, please, lets stick to the subject at hand rather than my sometimes, admittedly, coarse style of delivery.

And when we're done debating and discussing, we can still be friends and have a virtual pint or two afterward. :tiphat: :beer:

John
 

daedong

New member
Cityboy said:
OK - All you enlightend, rational people...let me have it. :hide:
[FONT=&quot]Cityboy[/FONT]
Just doing what you asked.
[FONT=&quot]Don’t take my comments [/FONT][FONT=&quot]too [/FONT][FONT=&quot]serious I was just being a larrikin and having some fun. :)
[/FONT]
 

Cityboy

Banned
daedong said:
[FONT=&quot]Cityboy[/FONT]
Just doing what you asked.
[FONT=&quot]Don’t take my comments [/FONT][FONT=&quot]too [/FONT][FONT=&quot]serious I was just being a larrikin and having some fun. :)
[/FONT]

Don't know what a larrikin is, but I reckon you got me! :eek: :D :tiphat:
 

daedong

New member
[SIZE=-1]Larrikin

"Harmless prankster; cheeky


[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Larrikinism is the name given to the Australian folk tradition of irreverence, mockery of authority and disregard for rigid norms of propriety. Larrikinism often, but not always, includes elements of self-deprecating humour. The Australian English word "larrikin", of uncertain etymology, arose to describe an individual who possesses these characteristics or behavioural traits. "
[/SIZE]
 

ALLEN PARSONS

New member
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE SO CALLED HUMAN RACE IF WE DO NOT BLOW OURSELF UP WITH OUR BOMBS. THEN WE WILL DISTORY THE VERY ENVIRONMENT WE LIVE IN. THINK OF YOUR KIDS , GRANDS KIDS.
WHAT WILL BE LEFT FOR THEM
PUT YOUR DAM GUNS DOWN AND TRY TO LIVE AS ONE HUMAN RACE
THATS MY TWO BITS.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
ALLEN PARSONS said:
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE SO CALLED HUMAN RACE IF WE DO NOT BLOW OURSELF UP WITH OUR BOMBS. THEN WE WILL DISTORY THE VERY ENVIRONMENT WE LIVE IN. THINK OF YOUR KIDS , GRANDS KIDS.
WHAT WILL BE LEFT FOR THEM
PUT YOUR DAM GUNS DOWN AND TRY TO LIVE AS ONE HUMAN RACE
THATS MY TWO BITS.

The Muslims are NOT going to stop fighting, for crying out loud, they can't even get along with each other.

At this very point the Isaelis can't stop, they need to finish. At the beginning of the conflict it was estimated Hezbolla had 1200-1400 short range missles in South Lebanon. Well we now know they have much more. Israel needs to take care of this or they'll have a semi-annual war to push Hezbolla away again and again. Like I mentioned here .... http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=5099
.......... more countries need to start taking these fanatics serious because no matter what you think, they are very serious about ridding the world of Israel, maintaining they're prehistoric views and killing innocents because they don't worship like they do.

The peace loving world needs to "WAKE THE F**K UP" or the fanatic Muslims will be the reason your kids and grand kids don't live in peace.
Sorry folks but IMO ............ "Peace ain't Free"
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
Dargo, well put. You have to also remember, Isreal is only the first item on the kill list for the islamfacists.

This wack-job in iran has openly admitted that he believes the end of the world is going to happen in 3 years and he must prepare it by destroying Isreal and all other non-believers so that when the profit returns he can be accepted properly.

(Loosely quoted, I can't remember all the details of this plan.)
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
ALLEN PARSONS said:
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE SO CALLED HUMAN RACE IF WE DO NOT BLOW OURSELF UP WITH OUR BOMBS. THEN WE WILL DISTORY THE VERY ENVIRONMENT WE LIVE IN.
Big Dog said:
The peace loving world needs to "WAKE THE F**K UP" or the fanatic Muslims will be the reason your kids and grand kids don't live in peace.
Sorry folks but IMO ............ "Peace ain't Free"
Man I really agree with both of you guys. If I've learned on thing sitting here reading for weeks on end after my surgery, it is that the Muslim world is far from a peace loving world. There are many individual Muslims who gladly preach peace and would love to live in peace, and probably would if only Israel didn't exist and Christianity (the other great big problem in the minds of the Muslims) would just vanish from the face of the earth.

I was a member of a chat site in Saudi Arabia and simply had to quit. Honestly I beleive the students of that nation are conditioned & programmed by their culture, their religion and their press. A couple decades of hearing the same things and they have no other knowledge but a deep seated hatred that is contained under civilized shell. I know Muslims here in the US and in other nations and I honestly do not believe that those Muslims are like the middle-east born & raised Muslims because they didn't grow up under the overwhelming pressure of the culture in the middle east. So I do believe that there are Muslims who are good and nice and peace loving. But I have come to learn from my contact with the Saudis that there is a very deep resentment.

One other thing I found out from them. They do not live in the present, they live in the past.

EXAMPLE
Here in the Western world we saw & broadcast the prisoner abuse in Abu Grabe by our soldiers. We prosecuted our soldiers and put them in jail. It was just. However, when I conversed with the Saudis, they kept asking if I knew about Abu Grabe, they posted the same photos we all saw on FOX and CNN. They wanted to know why we didn't do anything???? Huh? It was very common in their discussions to bring up OLD news that had been long ago resolved. But they never accepted the resolutions? Or they never knew that we took action to pushish the abusers?

It strikes me that they live in a highly censored world in the middle east. They seem to get only the news their leaders deem is appropriate; only the news that supports ONE side of the story.
In that type of world, I tend to think there will be no peace. I have not lost all hope for humanity . . .
 

HGM

New member
ALLEN PARSONS said:
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE SO CALLED HUMAN RACE IF WE DO NOT BLOW OURSELF UP WITH OUR BOMBS. THEN WE WILL DISTORY THE VERY ENVIRONMENT WE LIVE IN. THINK OF YOUR KIDS , GRANDS KIDS.
WHAT WILL BE LEFT FOR THEM
PUT YOUR DAM GUNS DOWN AND TRY TO LIVE AS ONE HUMAN RACE
THATS MY TWO BITS.


I think thats the point we are all trying to make except that it wont go away with these people still on the planet.. Putting the "guns" down will simply make us vulnerable and allow us to be picked off like groundhogs.. By erraticating the enemy, the rest of the civilized world will be safe to go about living.. If you havent seen who we are fighting or cannot fathom how bad they are, you need to check out some of the other threads and links that show who the enemy actually is and stop watching the local news channels because its total BS... Thats my two bits, I have met these people and they are not human as we know the term...
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
B_Skurka said:
It strikes me that they live in a highly censored world in the middle east. They seem to get only the news their leaders deem is appropriate; only the news that supports ONE side of the story.
In that type of world, I tend to think there will be no peace. I have not lost all hope for humanity . . .
I spent 11 weeks with 8 Saudi power plant supervisors on a simulator project just a couple months after 9/11. I got alot of long breaks in order for them to pray. They also primarily supervise cause most work is done by their Mexicans (Omanians, Yemens). Talk about learning about a different culture. That's a whole new thread. They only get media in their country the regeme wants them to get. The information they got in the US just amazed them and they immediately assumed it was BS. We traded e-mail's and as soon as they got home I started getting gore pictures of Palestinians hurt by Israelis and seeking a change in my view. Needless to say I don't confer anymore with them. Allied or Foe, all Muslims in the Middle East want Israel gone!!!!!!!
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Big Dog said:
They only get media in their country the regeme wants them to get. The information they got in the US just amazed them and they immediately assumed it was BS.
Recall the thread here on the forums started by Dr. Divine? He is a Muslim college student in Saudi Arabia (I confirmed this, I actually tracked him down, and he even moderates an English website in the K.S.A.) And he posted a question about a Saudi who supposedly was sentenced to life in jail. Remember the REAL story? He changed his tune and it was interesting to see that he never saw the real story until it was posted and linked so he could read it himself. But the real truth is far from the so-called "truth" he got in Saudi Arabia via their heavily censored press.

Here is a link to his thread for those who are not familiar with it. If you do nothing else, read the first few posts he made, then read the last few. Dr. Divine's Saudi Prisoner Thread.
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
Well, considering how Israel was "created", can you blame some of the Arab (AKA Muslim) community for being pissed off?
 

daedong

New member
http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html









HISTORY
of
Israel & "Palestine"
history, israel, zionism, Israel, Palestine, jerusalem, British Mandate, manditory, Jewish, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, peace process, oslo accords, maps, history israel, history palestine, history, geography, refugees, palestinian refugees, ehud barak, barak, Rabin, Yitzhak Rabin, Dayan, Moshe Dayan, Peace Now, Middle East Conflict
middle2.gif

Israel + Jordan = "Pal estine" Before 1923
Take a close look at this PRESENT DAY MAP of the Middle East in which you can see that 22 Arab and/or Muslim [Iran is not considered Arab] nations completely engulf Israel. If someone can explain to me how "expansionist Israel" has "taken over" the Middle East, please email me! The Arab countries occupy 640 times the land mass as does Israel and outnumber the Jews of Israel by nearly fifty to one. So much for Arab propaganda!
Now notice the TOTAL area of Israel and Jordan. This was referred to as "Palestine" and mandated under British administration following World War I (see next map below). How convenient that today's Arab propagandists forget that land east of the Jordan River was also part of "Palestine" and is, in fact, the Arab-Palestinian State!
bmand.gif
F
rom 1517-1917 Turkey's
Ottoman Empire controlled a vast Arab empire, a portion of which is today Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine. During World War I (1914-1918), Turkey supported Germany. When Germany was defeated, so were the Turks. In 1916 control of the southern portion of their Ottoman Empire was "mandated" to France and Britain under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned (mandated) to France... and "Palestine" (today's Jordan, Israel and "West Bank") was mandated to Great Britain.
Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British "looked favorably" upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare for the rebirth of Israel. This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of Arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions. There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few Arabs there or those Arab masses that immigrated into this area along with the Jews!
transj.gif
I
n 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river. In effect, the British had "chopped off" 75% of the originally proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Palestinian nation called Trans-Jordan (meaning "across the Jordan River"). This territory east of the Jordan River was given to Emir Abdullah (from Hejaz, now Saudi Arabia) who was not even an Arab-"Palestinian!" This portion of Palestine was renamed Trans-Jordan. Trans-Jordan and would again be renamed "Jordan" in 1946. In other words, the eastern 3/4 of Palestine would be renamed TWICE, in effect, erasing all connection to the name "Palestine!" However, the bottom line is that the Palestinian Arabs had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 25% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now. Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out. Most terrifying were the Hebron massacres of 1929 and later during the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt." The British at first tried to maintain order but soon (due to the large oil deposits being discovered throughout the Arab Middle East) turned a blind eye. It became painfully clear to the Palestinian Jews that they must fight the Arabs AND drive out the British.
1947mapa.gif
The Palestinian Jews were forced to form an organized defense against the Arabs Palestinians.... thus was formed the Hagana, the beginnings of the Israeli Defense Forces [IDF]. There was also a Jewish underground called the Irgun led by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel). Besides fighting the Arabs, the Irgun was instrumental in driving out the pro-Arab British. Finally in 1947 the British had enough and turned the Palestine matter over to the United Nations.
T
he 1947 U.N. Resolution 181 partition plan was to divide the remaining 25% of Palestine into a Jewish Palestinian State and a SECOND Arab Palestinian State (Trans-Jordan being the first) based upon population concentrations. The Jewish Palestinians accepted... the Arab Palestinians rejected. The Arabs still wanted ALL of Palestine... both east AND west of the Jordan River.
Our Palestinian Cousins started the '48 war, and in so doing released the warlike appetites of a nation of survivors, a people with no place to run, who had repressed their rage for millennia, and had now earned full title to it!

On May 14, 1948 the "Palestinian" Jews finally declared their own State of Israel and became "Israelis." On the next day, seven neighboring Arab armies... Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen... invaded Israel. Most of the Arabs living within the boundaries of the newly declared "ISRAEL" were encouraged to leave by the invading Arab armies to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and were promised to be given all Jewish property after the victorious Arab armies won the war. The truth is that 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 to 400,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! They did not flee because they feared Jewish thugs, but because of a rational and reasonable calculus: the Jews will be exterminated; we will get out of the way while that messy and dangerous business goes forward, and we will return afterwards to reclaim our homes, and to inherit those nice Jewish properties as well. They guessed wrong; and the Arab Palestinians are still tortured by the residual shame of their flight. Their shame is so great because in their eyes running from Jews was like running from women. So much for the blatant lie about Jews throwing out all the [Palestinian] Arabs!
The remaining 30% either (1) saw for themselves that these Jews would fight and die for their new nation and decided to pack up and leave or (2) were driven off the land as a normal consequence of war.

When the 19 month war ended, Israel survived despite a 1% loss of its entire population! Those Arabs who did not flee became today's Israeli-Arab citizens. Those who fled became the seeds of the first wave of "Palestinian Arab refugees."

The Arab propagandists and apologists almost never mentioned that in 1948, Arab armies launched a war against a one-day-old Israel. Instead he focused on the main consequence of that war: the creation of Arab refugees, stating that Israel "short of genocide" expelled 800,000 of them. This not only disagrees with UN estimates of a bit over 400,000 refugees but also ignores the fact that most of the Arabs/Palestinians were encouraged to leave by the Arab World itself!

1949mapa.gif
T
he end result of the 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence was the creation of a Jewish State slightly larger than that which was proposed by the 1947 United Nations Resolution 181. What remained of that almost-created second Arab Palestinian State was gobbled up by (1) Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and by (2) Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those "Palestinian" Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship. Since Trans-Jordan was then no longer confined to one side of the Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "Jordan." In the final analysis, the Arabs of Palestine ended up with nearly 85% of the original territory of Palestine... called Jordan but in reality their ARAB "Palestinian state! But that was still not 100% and thus the conflict between Arab and Jew for "Palestine" would continue through four more wars and continuous Arab terrorist attacks upon the Israeli citizenry. It continues to this very day.
From 1949-67 when all of Judea-Samaria [West Bank & Jerusalem] and Gaza ... were 100% under Arab [Jordanian & Egyptian] control, no effort was EVER made to create a second Palestinian State for the Arabs living there. Surely you do not expect Israel to now provide these same Arabs with their own country when their fellow Arabs failed to do so! And isn't it curious how Arafat and his PLO (formed in 1964) discovered their "ancient" identity and a need for "self-determination" and "human dignity" on this very same West Bank ONLY AFTER Israel regained this territory (three years later in 1967) following Jordan's attempt attempt to destroy Israel! Why was no request ever made upon King Hussein of Jordan by the Arabs living on the West Bank when he occupied it? Is it logical that the PLO was formed in 1964 to regain the lands they would lose three years later in 1967? This sort of logic makes sense only to those who who have not learned that the PLO was formed to DESTROY Israel. And that is STILL their goal! A cosmetic name change from PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) to PA (Palestinian Authority) does not change the stripes on THIS tiger!
Pre-67.gif
Throughout much of May 1967, the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies mobilized along Israel's narrow and seemingly indefensible borders in preparation for a massive invasion to eliminate the State of Israel. The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the Sea!" But the Jews of Israel, remembering 2,000 years of being butchered, gassed, burned and skinned (eg. The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, the Arab rampages of early Palestine and particularly the Holocaust), planned and executed a perfect pre-emptive strike against Egypt. Within two hours the Egyptian Air Force did not exist... most of its planes destroyed while still on the runways! Unaware that the Egyptians had no more air force, King Hussein of Jordan, launched his attack from the his West Bank into Israel's belly while Syrian troops prepared to descend down the Golan Heights high ground into northern Israel.
Now for some facts about "occupation." Firstly, the Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians lost Gaza, the West Bank and Golan Heights (respectively) by participating in a failed attempt at genocide against the Children of Israel. Had Israel lost this 1967 defensive war, the Arab-Palestinians and their Arab allies would have raped, butchered or driven out every Israeli they could get their hands on and gobbled up all of Israel. Now, 35+ years later and despite the fact that Israel won a war BROUGHT UPON THEM, the Israelis are still willing to allow the Arab-Palestinians to have a state on much of the West Bank and Gaza if only they will stop sending their suicide/homicide bombers into the heart of Israel! (Talk about misplaced compassion!)
From 1948 to 1967, Egypt ruled Gaza, Syria ruled the Golan Heights, while Jordan ruled the West Bank. They could have set up independent Arab-Palestinian states in any or all of those territories, but they didn't even consider it. Instead, in 1967 they used the Golan Heights, Gaza and the West bank to launch a war that was unambiguously aimed at destroying Israel, which is how Israel came into possession of those territories in the first place.
1967mapb.gif
A
fter ONLY six days of air, sea and hand-to-hand ground warfare, Israel defeated all three Arab armies along three separate fronts, taking control of the entire Sinai Desert from Egypt, the 37mile x 12mile Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem and its Old City) from Jordan. The God of Israel was surely watching over His children! Most importantly was the return to Israel of its holy 3,000 year old capital city of Jerusalem along the western edge of the West Bank... the same Jerusalem from which all Jews had been denied access for the 19 years (1948-1967) following Jordan's seizure and control over it following the first Arab-Israeli War of 1948-9.
Unfortunately, the world saw things differently and considered Israel an "occupier" of this disputed "West Bank" and the Gaza Strip along with the 850,000 Palestinian Arabs living there. These Arabs would refer to themselves as "refugees" and joined the masses of refugees from the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948-9. Once again Israel was forced to fight a battle for survival and, sadly, once again Palestinian [in reality, Jordanian and Egyptian] Arabs becoming refugees by their own actions, the actions of their leaders and from the actions of fellow Arabs from neighboring states!
ISRAEL SCREWS UP TOO!
Israel was responsible for bringing about some of its own problems. The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were packed and ready to leave following their 1967 defeat. Suddenly the victorious one-eyed IDF General Moshe Dayan persuaded them to stay. This singular act stunned no one more than the Arab enemy himself who could not believe such an incredible manifestation of Jewish madness! After all, the Arabs knew what THEY would have done to the Jews if they had won! Dayan's plan was to educate them, offer them modern medical treatment, provide them with employment both in the West Bank, Gaza AND inside Israel Proper itself ... living amongst each other in hopes of building bridges to the Arab world. Israel is now paying dearly for this typically naive "Leftist" gesture. That "bridge" led to two Intifadas and world-wide Arab-Palestinian terrorism. From a frightened and defeated enemy, these "Palestinian" Arabs under Israel's jurisdiction turned into a confident, hateful and dangerous enemy now on their way toward forming a terrorist state determined to destroy Israel!
Note: When people say Jordan (first called Trans-Jordan) is an Arab-"Palestinian" State, they are correct! Jordan accounts for 3/4 of Palestine's original land mass. Though they may call themselves "Jordanians," they are culturally, ethnically, historically and religiously no different than the Arab-"Palestinians" on the "West Bank." Even the flag of Jordan and the flag of the proposed 2nd Arab-Palestinian state on the West Bank / Gaza look almost identical. So, if the Arab-Palestinians and Jordanians think of themselves as one and the same, why should WE fall for the lie that the Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River are any different from the Jordanian Arabs on its eastern shore?
Jordanflag.GIF

Jordanian Flag
plo-flag.gif

Proposed Palestinian Flag
1982map1.gif
Usually when one side starts a war and loses both the war AND some territory, no one on the planet would expect the winner to give back anything! This not only sounds preposterous, it IS preposterous! But the Jews (I hate to admit) had such an insane obsession of wanting the world to love them that they were willing to give back the entire Sinai Desert (oil fields, air bases and endless miles of security buffer) to Egypt for a piece of paper. Thus, in 1982 Egypt regained their Sinai and Israel lost a massive buffer against any future Egyptian aggression! Thus far, Egypt has not aggressed against Israel militarily; however, the basest, anti-Semitic vile to come out of Egypt is not unlike the worse of Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda! This 1982 Camp David Peace Accord has to be the coldest peace deal in history!
I
srael still occupies Syria's Golan Heights which, prior to the 1967 war, had been by Syria used solely for terrorist incursions into and artillery bombardment upon Israel's northeastern settlements. The Golan should never be given back to Israel's most vicious enemy! And of course, Israel still "occupies" the West Bank with its ONE MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND and Gaza with its EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND "Palestinian" Arabs. Had Israel done to these Arabs what the Arabs would have done to the Jews had THEY won, she would have expelled these hostile Arabs and made it officially part of a Greater Israel! But by remaining an "occupier," Israel set herself up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!


..
More on "Palestinian Nationalism
and the
Real War Against Israel...
The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestinians", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians. The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!.
The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews!
The Arab assaults and aggressions against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968, and 1973 had nothing to do with Palestinians. The Palestinian terror campaign would itself be easy to suppress today and eradicate if the Middle East conflict were really a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Israel would simply obliterate the terrorists and expel their supporters to Syria and Lebanon. The Middle East war continues because it is really an Arab-Israeli war, not an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is also in large part a war between barbarism and civilization. In many ways an Islamic religious jihad against the Jews.

.
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
Masada? Geze, wonder where that information came from?

By the way, the first two killings per that web sites link did not occur in the middle east, and were not American soldiers(to show how bad the "Muslims" can be). Very graphic, and if you would like to sleep at night, I'd suggest you not watch them.

I might add, the "west" has done just as "bad".

Hatred breading hatred. Got to love it.
 

Cityboy

Banned
dzalphakilo said:
Masada? Geze, wonder where that information came from?

By the way, the first two killings per that web sites link did not occur in the middle east, and were not American soldiers(to show how bad the "Muslims" can be). Very graphic, and if you would like to sleep at night, I'd suggest you not watch them.

I might add, the "west" has done just as "bad".

Hatred breading hatred. Got to love it.

So, what is your solution? Just let the Muslims kill all the Jews? Because, according to you, it is all the Jews fault, right?

Why all the animosity toward the Jews and support for the Muslims? :confused2:
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
I have no animosity towards Jewish people.

Where did I say it was all the Jews fault? Please quote me where I lead you to believe this.
 

BoneheadNW

New member
dzalphakilo said:
Well, considering how Israel was "created", can you blame some of the Arab (AKA Muslim) community for being pissed off?
Do you want to give Israel back to the Palestinians? What do you propose? How about giving the U.S. back to the Native Americans? Can you blame them for being pissed off? How about if Native Americans start getting on public buses with bombs strapped to their chest and blowing everyone away- would that convice you to give the U.S. back? If I recall, you get pissed off if anyone even talks about taking your guns away. Why are you so empathetic to the Arab community?
Bonehead
 

Cityboy

Banned
dzalphakilo said:
I have no animosity towards Jewish people.

Where did I say it was all the Jews fault? Please quote me where I lead you to believe this.

Bonhead beat me to it. You've been pretty pro-Muslim in most of these discussions. I'm just curious why you support them.
 

BoneheadNW

New member
Cityboy said:
Bonhead beat me to it.
Oh my God, CB and I are on the SAME side of a debate (kind of)! I think I'm going to faint! Better get rid of my blue underwear and buy some red ones.
Bonehead
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
I don't consider myself anti or pro jewish/muslim at all, you make assumptions just because I don't jump on the bandwagon here.

Bonehead, ever see those bumper stickers on 9/11 that say "always remember"?

Better yet, just kill em all and let god sort them out.
 

Dutch-NJ

New member
B_Skurka said:
Actually I was wondering if Israel has not over-played its hand and is taking a bit to long, with a bit too much collateral damage.
daedong said:
Bob, I agree totally.
ALLEN PARSONS said:
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE SO CALLED HUMAN RACE IF WE DO NOT BLOW OURSELF UP WITH OUR BOMBS.
dzalphakilo said:
I might add, the "west" has done just as "bad".

How to Lose to Terrorists
By Ben Stein
Published 7/31/2006 12:09:22 AM

We are in real serious trouble, and I'll tell you how and why I know it:

* Because the Hezbollah -- as has been well reported -- launches missiles at purely civilian targets in Israel as a matter of course, and no one in Europe or in the American left says "boo" about it. It's considered the Hezbollah's "right" to kill Israelis and when they do, they boast about it and promise to do more;

* Because it's been also well documented that the Hezbollah hides behind civilian targets and adjacent to civilian dwellings in Lebanon to fire its rockets at Israel, and when Israel fires back and mistakenly hits a home with civilians, the world of "intellectuals" and "thinkers" blames Israel and calls Israel bloodthirsty;

* Because when the Israelis kill civilians, they apologize, but when the terrorists kill civilians, they brag -- and the beautiful people scream at Eretz Israel and excuse the terrorists;

* Because if you substitute "America" for "Israel" and the "terrorists in Iraq" for the Hezbollah, you get what's happening in Iraq;

* Because it is impossible to beat a terrorist movement without using terror tactics, and we as a people of compassion and restraint, both in Israel and the U.S., will not use terror tactics even when survival is at stake, and this means we will not survive.

It is very much as if, after Pearl Harbor, after the bombing of London, we said, "We will fight the Japanese and the Nazis, but we will only use humane means, and we will show total restraint and will never kill civilians. And we will search our souls and agonize about every move."

It is this attitude that kept the United States from winning in Korea, in Vietnam, and now in Iraq. If we had followed that code of suicide, we would have lost World War II and the world would have been plunged into eternal darkness. You cannot fight inhumane people with humane means. You cannot fight savages with one hand -- no, two hands -- tied behind your back. No wars were ever won using restraint and only civilized means. That's a formula for complete defeat and for the end of civilized life. If we allow our media and French intellectuals to prevent us and the Israelis from using the means necessary to win, we'll lose...in Lebanon, in Iraq, and everywhere and this civilization is very well worth preserving. Yes, as sad as it would be to use terror tactics to win a war, it would be incomparably worse to lose. At the end of the war we win, there is light. At the end of the war we lose, there is the end.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=10160
 

BoneheadNW

New member
dzalphakilo said:
I don't consider myself anti or pro jewish/muslim at all, you make assumptions just because I don't jump on the bandwagon here.

Bonehead, ever see those bumper stickers on 9/11 that say "always remember"?

Better yet, just kill em all and let god sort them out.
I understood the first statement. As for the second statement (question), the answer is no, I have not seen it. As for the third statement, I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you really feel that way. Either way, you completely ignored what (gulp!) er, Cityboy and I asked you: Do you want to give Israel back to the Palestinians? What do you propose? What would you do if your country was being attacked from the north by rockets? Would you have said, "Gee, I undertand why they are so pissed off"?
Bonehead
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Thanks for the information Vin and Dutch, good reads...............:thumb:
 
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