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"Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
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"Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

By MIRIAM JORDAN

Arizona lawmakers on Tuesday passed one of the toughest pieces of immigration-enforcement legislation in the country, which would make it a violation of state law to be in the U.S. without proper documentation.
It would also grant police the power to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being illegal.
The bill could still face a veto from Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer. A spokesman for Ms. Brewer said she has not publicly commented on the bill. Ms. Brewer, a Republican, has argued for stringent immigration laws.
Under the measure, passed Tuesday by Arizona's lower house, after being passed earlier by the state Senate, foreign nationals are required to carry proof of legal residency.
Immigrants' rights groups roundly criticized the bill. "The objective is to make life miserable for immigrants so that they leave the state," said Chris Newman, general counsel for the Los Angeles-based National Day Laborer Organizing Network. "The bill constitutes a complete disregard for the rights of nonwhites in Arizona. It effectively mandates racial profiling."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...4.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsForth

Hmmm. No mention of the police going after the employers of illegal aliens. They are crossing the border for work, so why not deny them the opportunity.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

It appears to be a step in the right direction, but I'll agree with you Rob that the employers of any illegal aliens should also face penalties. Make the employer verify citizenship and then if they are found with any employees who are not citizens or here legally with proper paperwork then the business owner should be fined and possibly jailed.
 

Glink

Active member
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Hmmm. No mention of the police going after the employers of illegal aliens. They are crossing the border for work, so why not deny them the opportunity.

Agree completely on the employers.

Of course those employers make campaign contributions.

I have to edit after catching this.

It would also grant police the power to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being illegal.

After rereading your post Rob, I guess I now think this new law sucks.

Forcing employers to insure, maintain, and provide proof of legal status; that would make more sense.
 
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XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

I think the law is good because it allows the local police to enforce immigration laws. This brings the enforcement control back to the state and not on the national level. I suspect many of these immigrants will be released by the feds even after the local police catch them.

Unfortunately, we are at a state where the bureaucrats are undermining the will of the people. I suspect a majority of the people (at least the legitimate citizens and immigrants) want to see immigration laws enforced against the employers and the illegals. Unfortunately, there seems to be this crazy thing called the government that is incapable of doing what the population wants.
 

RobsanX

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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

The part that worries me is that this law doesn't just apply to people under arrest. It applies to any Tom, Dick, and Harriet walking down the street. The police can detain anyone until they prove that they are in the country legally. What exactly constitutes proof of citizenship? I don't carry my passport, birth certificate, or SS card with me...
 

loboloco

Well-known member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Actually, Federal law requires anyone here on any form of visa to have it on their person at all times. Just Az backing up the Feds.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

The part that worries me is that this law doesn't just apply to people under arrest. It applies to any Tom, Dick, and Harriet walking down the street. The police can detain anyone until they prove that they are in the country legally. What exactly constitutes proof of citizenship? I don't carry my passport, birth certificate, or SS card with me...

There are checkpoints all over the the southwest. This is not new, its just that AZ is defying federal orders. AZ simply wants to crack down because of the huge burden to the state tax payers that illegal aliens create.

FWIW, many of the illegals who cross are also employed by individuals as maids, gardeners, etc. When my in-laws lived in the border town of El Paso, TX it seemed that EVERYONE had a Mexican maid, a Mexican gardner, a Mexican handyman, etc. They worked for cash, cheap. So cracking down on the EMPLOYERS would be pretty tough because not only would they have to go after the farms, orchards, ranches, etc. They would also have to go knocking door-to-door to find private employers.

Mexicans are an easy target because they "look" different. But there are obviously MILLIONS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS of legal Mexican decent living here that may also get caught in these sweeps. My real estate partner is a Mexican from El Paso, his mom and most of his siblings still live in the southwest. They are all legal and I feel for any legal person who is swept up in something like these citizen checks that most likely will target people of hispanic heritage. On the other hand, its clear that many are here illegally and we need to crack down on them.
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

The part that worries me is that this law doesn't just apply to people under arrest. It applies to any Tom, Dick, and Harriet walking down the street. The police can detain anyone until they prove that they are in the country legally. What exactly constitutes proof of citizenship? I don't carry my passport, birth certificate, or SS card with me...
Well, we can start with speaking English without a Spanish accent...
 

Melensdad

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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Well, we can start with speaking English without a Spanish accent...
Unfair and wrong.

My dad was an immigrant here from Czechoslovakia. Hard as he tried to lose his accent he could not shake it.

My uncle, who was born here but raised among Slovaks who smoke Slovak at home and English in public had a worse accent than my dad and he was a citizen at birth.

There is nothing wrong with a Spanish accent, or any other nationality accent. Heck PBinWA is here as a legal alien and he can't get rid of his Canadian accent :hammer:
 

dzalphakilo

Banned
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Guys, you're missing the forest through the trees here...

You can enact ANY law you want to send people "back", the problem is, we as a country don't have the manpower nor the resources to actually accomplish anything.

What I'd like to call a "feel good law", or perhaps someone is running for re election.

My dad was an immigrant here from Czechoslovakia.

And I'm sincerely curious as to how your father felt about Americans of Japaneese decent?

I think sometimes the hate is hard to let go of.
 

Doc

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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

I agree with you that it is a feel good law for the most part DZ. Since it is for AZ only the end result will be the neighboring states will see and influx of illegals. It will move the problem out of one state and into others.

Like was mentioned before, I wonder what will constitute proof? If a drivers license will suffice the law won't have much affect as (I've read) many illegals have a drivers license.
 

loboloco

Well-known member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Unfair and wrong.

My dad was an immigrant here from Czechoslovakia. Hard as he tried to lose his accent he could not shake it.

My uncle, who was born here but raised among Slovaks who smoke Slovak at home and English in public had a worse accent than my dad and he was a citizen at birth.

There is nothing wrong with a Spanish accent, or any other nationality accent. Heck PBinWA is here as a legal alien and he can't get rid of his Canadian accent :hammer:
How do you smoke a Slovak?:w00t2:
 

Chetdb

New member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Didn't the make a movie about Cheech getting caught up in a immigration sweep?
 

fustyruk

New member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Interesting. Since AZ is now in the business of profiling Americans of Hispanic or Latino heritage and demanding proof of citizenship based solely on ethnicity. Perhaps AZ could demand brown skinned Americans be tattooed at birth to make proof of citizenship easy to confirm or perhaps AZ could require brown skinned Americans wear an identifying patch... perhaps a star on their clothing.

AZ has lost its damned mind and this law is as unAmerican as it gets. This is profiling pure and simple and demanding anyone fitting the profile, including natural born Americans, based on ethnicity to prove their citizenship can't be constitutional. Why is it that Americans that claim to uphold the principles of real freedom in this coutry are so determined to eliminate those principles?
 
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EastTexFrank

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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

I agree with Bob as far as the accent thing goes. I was born in Scotland grew up in the UK and have been in the US for 25 years and I'm told I still have an accent. Just goes to show, I thought I sounded like John Wayne.

As far as the Resident Alien Card is concerned, loboloco is right. You have to carry it with you at all times.

The "fine employers of illegal alien" thing sounds like a good idea but there are some very significant difficulties. They tried to introduce a similar law in Texas several years back but it failed to pass because there is no way for an employer to check whether a prospective employee is in fact legal. There is no State or Federal database that they can access to verify immigration status. Illegals can buy a forged driving license or a Social Security card for less than $100. Now, in a lot of cases, it's fairly obvious if they're illegal or not but until you have some sort of verification process or procedure in place, it's just not practical. It is a nice idea though.
 

loboloco

Well-known member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Actually, immigration status can be checked thru ICE. My wife was working at a plant where they take this serious. 2 women hired the same day were terminated because of immigration status. One got it straight and went back to work, The other took off in front of an ICE team.
It should be made mandatory that any employer check status. With whopping big fines for none compliance. Like 250,000.00 per violation.
When I had my business I always checked for legal status. SSAN can be ran also, but it takes time to get the info back, or used to.
 

EastTexFrank

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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Actually, immigration status can be checked thru ICE. My wife was working at a plant where they take this serious. 2 women hired the same day were terminated because of immigration status. One got it straight and went back to work, The other took off in front of an ICE team.
It should be made mandatory that any employer check status. With whopping big fines for none compliance. Like 250,000.00 per violation.
When I had my business I always checked for legal status. SSAN can be ran also, but it takes time to get the info back, or used to.

Yes, but what information do you use to check? I don't know. I was going on the information given to me by a friend who operates a business here in East Texas and petitioned the State Government not to pass the law until there was a reliable procedure in place that would allow him to verify their status. He also said that some of the forged documents he sees are pretty bad but some are very, very good.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Actually, Federal law requires anyone here on any form of visa to have it on their person at all times. Just Az backing up the Feds.

As a permanent resident I am supposed to have my "green card" on me at all times. Never been asked for it but I carry it.
 

mak2

Active member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

I bet if the Feds made a big deal of arresting a bunch of employers all over the US, and repeated it occassionally the flow would ebb and soon the illegeal Mexicans would be headed south in a tidal wave. They are only here because the Republians want the free labor and the democrats hope for a vote someday. Simple, not really any matters of opinions here, just the facts.
 

nixon

Boned
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

They are only here because the Republians want the free labor and the democrats hope for a vote someday. Simple, not really any matters of opinions here, just the facts.

Got anything to back up Your "facts " ?
 

Cowboy

Wait for it.
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

I bet if the Feds made a big deal of arresting a bunch of employers all over the US, and repeated it occassionally the flow would ebb and soon the illegeal Mexicans would be headed south in a tidal wave. They are only here because the Republians want the free labor and the democrats hope for a vote someday. Simple, not really any matters of opinions here, just the facts.


Highlly unlikelly Mak . How would THEY , the Rich & in control get their houses cleaned , Landscapeing done , Meals cooked, dinner partys, & Nannys to take care of their spoilt Kids , Etc , Etc :smile:
 

SShepherd

New member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

I bet if the Feds made a big deal of arresting a bunch of employers all over the US, and repeated it occassionally the flow would ebb and soon the illegeal Mexicans would be headed south in a tidal wave. They are only here because the Republians want the free labor and the democrats hope for a vote someday. Simple, not really any matters of opinions here, just the facts.


huhuhuhu..y..HUHU EVIL REPUBLICOOTS

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2010/03/28/obamas-appointee-supports-u-s-business-hiring-illegal-aliens/

This weekend President Obama implemented a recess appointment for Craig Becker to head the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB).
On January 8th, 2001, Becker told a radio audience that he was a supporter of American businesses hiring undocumented, illegal aliens.
 

ghautz

Bronze Member
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Arizona passed a law to crack down on the hiring of illegal aliens about three years ago. There has not been a lot in the news lately about it. I recollect hearing about a couple of employers being pursued, but I don't recall the details. Here is a link to a forum discussing it:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/ille...a-passes-strict-illegal-alien-employment.html

Like someone on the forum mentioned, it requires enforcement. The only cop in the state working to enforce the immigration laws (Sheriff Joe Arpaio) is constantly catching heat for his efforts.
 
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nixon

Boned
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Who was the last employer arrested for hiring illegeals?

So , You base Your "facts" on a person that You fail to name ?
Come on You can do better ,can't You ? Give Us a link to substantiate Your claims .
 

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
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Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...

Yes, but what information do you use to check? I don't know. I was going on the information given to me by a friend who operates a business here in East Texas and petitioned the State Government not to pass the law until there was a reliable procedure in place that would allow him to verify their status. He also said that some of the forged documents he sees are pretty bad but some are very, very good.

You can look up the federal I-9 form. There are a number of documents, or combination of documents used to show that a person can legally work here.
 
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