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"Lombard" oldest snow machine

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Well im kind of the odd man out here!! i dont have snow tracs,tuckers,thiokols,bombardiers, or pisten bullys, but ive worked on most of them when i worked at Waterville valley ski area maintenance from 1970 thru 1983!!! I'm a new guy here my buddy up in Anchorage Alaska,who goes by 3512B told me about you guys a few weeks ago so i signed up.
One of my interest has been sled haulage of logs,timber and my main hobby is collecting and restoring "LOMBARD TRACTORS" the first over snow successful crawler tractors,the first one was built in 1900 by Alvin Lombard an inventor from Waterville Maine.The earliest were steam powered, but he started building gasoline log haulers in 1909. I have 2 1925 Gasoline log haulers that were originally used by Ed Lacroix in the Allagash wilderness of Maine. To make a long story short 1 is restored and running ,and i'm working on the second one now.Heres a picture of my restored machine with wheels on,the sled in front is used to replace the wheels for winter use. Thus these were in use long before the T ford snowmobile and all other over the snow crawler type machines.

lombard_3522-LF.jpg



heres a picture of one of my machines hauling wood back in the 30's

24aa-sm.jpg
 

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
It doesn't really fit in with most of the stuff here but it was the earliest.:biggrin: Heres me steering a 1914 steam lombard log hauler i helped restore years ago.

IMG_3784.jpg
 

redsqwrl

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
That is some great history. and great machinery..

in addition to farting around with snow machines, I hoard Chainsaws, and those old power saws were really an advancement over the man-u-al cross cut saws. was the Lombard snow tractors related to the lombard Power saws.?

Seems Wisconsin logging efforts went from the horse to stationary Traction winches ultimately to forwarders to deck the timber.

Was the lombard in the photo a decking machine or does the terrain in maine warrant a means to get from the camps to a rail line.....

Mike
 

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
The Lombard was used to pull strings of sleds loaded with logs,pulpwood ,or lumber.They hauled up to 300 tons ,to a major river,or to a railroad or directly to the mill.They were used all over the snowbelt areas.Canada,U.S., Russia, Finland ,all over. in 1905 Lombard licensed a firm in Eau Clare Wis. the Phoenix manufacturing co. to basically manufacture a "WESTERN LOMBARD" these were used all over including one in Alaska where it still sits in the woods. The lombard chainsaw was made by the lombard waterwheel governor co. in Mass. it was started by Alvins Brother . I probably have 60 or 70 antique chainsaws in my logging collection. Don
 

Kristi Kt-4

Member
On your restored machine... Is that a hand crank I see sticking out of the front? What kind of engine does it have? I see you have an old crane also!
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
It doesn't really fit in with most of the stuff here but it was the earliest.:biggrin:

. . .

Sure it does, it fits just fine :clap:

It goes over the snow. It has tracks. It is, therefore, a snow cat :hammer:

Now that we have established that you are welcomed as a new member here with an amazing snow cat, how about giving us some of the history of these amazing machines. Pretty please :flowers:
 

3512b

Junior Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Good on ya! Don I knew you could finger the picture posting thingie
I Met Don At the Forestry conference center in Concord NH when the film Stump to ship was showing. It was made in the late 20s and had a gas Lombard running. think that was 1984 or so been bumping ito each other
ever since and he even came up for a visit, Of course I took him to the biggest
"CAT" house in Alaska.... where I work :whistling:
Now Don you got to hook up with Don in Nome and bet he run down to where that old Lombard is.. its just down the idarod trail a bit...
don't let that 3512 get junked I working on peddling it for ya

Now to get out of the rain in Ketchikan... the only snow here is way above any place a snow trac will travel

don got a good book to write on the Lombard we just got to encourage him to get it publishes.. I think a kick starter campaign....
 

nikos

Active member
Sure it does, it fits just fine :clap:

It goes over the snow. It has tracks. It is, therefore, a snow cat :hammer:

Now that we have established that you are welcomed as a new member here with an amazing snow cat, how about giving us some of the history of these amazing machines. Pretty please :flowers:


If this is the oldest -earlier Snow Machines, Where is the trailer and How big it was?:yum::yum:
Just Kidding

It is amazing, it's not a train, it's not a steamroller and it's not a tractor.
We are one big family.

Nikos
 

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Well I guess i'll answer the easy question first. That is a crank ,and this machine has a 6 cylinder t-head wisconsin engine. The cylinders are cast in pairs ,with a 5 3/4" bore and 7" stroke = 1090 cubic inch displacement. they were rated at 100 H.P. at 1000 R.P.M. heres a picture of when i first restored the machine. The crankcase is Bronze as are a bunch of the fittings.

dj-steam-lombard_6261.jpg


Also me steering a steamer back in 1989. As for the history of Lombard I guess it would take a book to tell the story.:smile:I may get into it a bit later. Heres another picture of a snow vehicle that was made in Maine around 1910. A screw type log hauler to compete with Lombard.It was made by Ira Peavey of Bangor ,it wasn't very successful.

lombard-1sm.jpg
 

pixie

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
Welcome to this forum, Don !!

I notice the tracks are different on the first 2 color pictures. And the 2 machines are different, too. Is there a story behind the evolution of the Lombards or the tracks ?

Hoping for some closer pictures of the tracks :)
 

nikos

Active member
Hey Lombard


Too many informations and also too many questions.

1) Is there any possibility in this kind of Screw type Log hauler, to have in every side (Left and right), different motors?

As i can see from the picture, there is the transition (right side ) with the chain, that is connected with a gear in the base of the right screw cylinder.

2) What happened with the left screw cylinder?

If there are two motors, the people of Main in the wagon are traveling, beside and among two heavy motors. (No space, too noise, but not so cold as in front, where is the driver)
Another thing is that there is plenty of room in front of the Log hauler, where is the driver, but not any kind of protection, (no cabin), and in the middle, there is a big fuel tank.

Your photos are the real history of the 20th century and they give us the opportunity to see, to understand and to realize the way of thinking of the machinery designers in the past. (What they used - material- ideas etc)

Nikos
 

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Track Addict

Bronze Member
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sno-drifter

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
[ Of course I took him to the biggest
"CAT" house in Alaska.... where I work :whistling:
When you coming to check out this "CAT" house? 2U and 19A to see. Not as old as this machine.
 

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Well The steam log hauler that is in Alaska ,is in Iditarod ,out in the bush.It belongs to a Mr Christanson[sp] who lives in Eagle River.Its in pretty bad shape been setting there forever.Pixie the Steam lombard and Gas lombard used two different track styles.The big square tank on the Peavey machine was just for water to cool the engine.I think both tracks were driven by the single engine ,they probably geared it so they rotated in opposite directions.In the Late 70's i put together a static display lombard for Timberland machines in Lancaster N.H.,It was supposed to go to a Museum at the rocks in Bethlehem N.H. but the museum never got off the ground,Timberland donated the machine to the N.H. snowmobile museum in Allentown. A good friend of mine was instrumental in jacking up the railroad locomotives and fixing the track under them. The lombards i have were owned by Ed Lacroix and he also owned the locomotives. Both those locomotives were hauled in from Lac Frontaire on lombard sleds with gas lombards. hope i didn't miss many questions.Heres the iditarod machine!!!! Don
 

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sno-drifter

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
loggah; Heres another picture of a snow vehicle that was made in Maine around 1910. A screw type log hauler to compete with Lombard.It was made by Ira Peavey of Bangor said:
http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29767/lombard-1sm.jpg[/IMG]

This is the same principal as Tucker's early machines but I have never seen any of his Motor Sleds with twin screw. Tucker sold quite a few of the spiral machines and they pulled several sleds behind them. Snow conditions had to be right for them to work and so he gave up as he wanted a machine that could handle every type of snow.
 

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
The Peavey machine hauled a few sleds but snow conditions had to be perfect. I know there was one tried earlier in the 1880's or so that had 4 screws,steam powered and hinged,articulated in the middle. I cant find the picture at the moment. Don
 

DAVENET

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Wow. I have to say I never imagined something with a contact patch that small would be able to get that much weight moving. Keeping it going is one thing, but from a dead stop is mighty impressive.
 

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Its all in the leverage!!! The hitch is up fairly high on the machines and as you pull the sleds the track is forced down,with the log haulers being long machines this lets them pull more. A 10 ton gas lombard would pull as much as two regular 10 ton crawlers,holt 10 ton ,or cat 60. They also had 40 more horsepower then the competitors.The steamers were impressive machines weighing about 20 tons with water and fuel,and the higher the safety valve was set the more H.P. Back in the early 1980's i actually talked to the engineer of that steamer,Ashley Leighton he was pretty old then but lived a few miles from the steamer ran. Don
 

DAVENET

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I'm guessing the season for getting your wood out with a Lombard in the winter would have been pretty tight. Right there between waiting for the ground to freeze solid and getting out before mud season!
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
that's neat I would love a picture of the hitch position .leatrac built little crawlers for towing around b29's on turf fields in ww2.they had a hitch that was suspended in the rear extending to the front of the cat for the same reason ,the geometry would pull the tractor down for more tractive force when under load .
 

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
The hitch is probably 30" or so above the ground,i'll have to measure one of mine to be sure,and there pulling at about 10" where it connects on the sleds with about a 6' reach drawbar. All the lombard sled irons were made to be loose jointed with play in the sled runner ends ,sort of like a railroad coupler.when a machine came to a stop with loaded or empty sleds the operator would back the sleds up a bit.That would give him slack so he would never have to start all the sleds at once. Heres a link to the other machine im putting together its on another forum im on,theres a lot of pictures to the mechanics of the machine. Don

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,78827.0.html
 

nikos

Active member
Wow. I have to say I never imagined something with a contact patch that small would be able to get that much weight moving. Keeping it going is one thing, but from a dead stop is mighty impressive.

The best snow grooming equipment - drags for cross country trails :yum::yum:

Nikos
 

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Those Tuckers have a pretty high hitch ,they pulled rollers,powder makers and a tucker mogul planer pretty well:clap:.I used to work on all kinds of snow grooming equipment at the ski area,tuckers, bombardiers, thiokols,and pisten bullies, 13 years of it,probably 20 different tractors.I'm not new to this stuff by any means.They had a bunch of "snowmasters" there but got sick of rebuilding VW engines so down the road they went. That was in the late 60's. They were good little machines but they were not made to go straight up and down mountains !! Don
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I think there is a Lombard at the Colorado mining museum... Looks familiar anyway. Could they have been used in the mining industry back in the day?

And yes Snow Tracs are good little machines on their own. But pulling grooming equiptment regularly wouldn't be high on the list of what they were made for. I believe the main intentions of the inventer were to move people, not snow... That came later, and I question how succesfull they really were at that task.

Thanks, Kirk
 

loggah

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Kirk, What was at the museum was probably a "LINN" truck or "LINN" log hauler .They were similar to the Lombard and a lot of them were made and used in the mining industry. If i remember correctly the S Donnowmasters had a small roll that was in front of the engine and a small roll that folded down on each side of the track. They were just used for packing,the mountain had some really steep grades and it was pretty hard on those little machines. I know toward the end one of the mechanics could swap out an engine in about 1 hour.
 
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