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Global Warming

JimR

Charter Member
I heard this one on the news the other day and got a real kick out of it.

The announcer stated that there is a large Global Warming meeting going on in Bali. 12,000 guests from 158 countires are going to attend there. He said this. If these people are so concerned about global warming. Then why didn't they hold it by video conferencing and save all the fuel it took to bring their sorry arses there. Good point to ask these 12,000 delegates from 158 countries.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Global warming exists. I don't think that can be denied. I also think it is reasonable to suggest that things will continue to get warmer. It also seems reasonable to presume that the 12,000 scientists/politicians picked Bali because they got someone else to pay for the trip and it was the most expensive/exotic place they could go to spend other people's money!

What I think is possible to deny is that man/civilization is the major cause of global warming.

But what I think also seems to be obvious is that there seems to be repeated warming & cooling cycles. So while it seems obvious that warming will continue, it also will very likely be reversed and we will enter a cooling cycle at some point within the next few decades.
 

daedong

New member
it also will very likely be reversed and we will enter a cooling cycle at some point within the next few decades.


Bob, the vast majority of scientific community would not agree with you. how do you support this statement?
 

JimR

Charter Member
There are just as many scientist saying that this is just a warming spell that will change as there are scientists claiming that it is irreversible. The reason you don't hear from the other side is because they will lose funding on whatever projects they are working on because they are bucking the system. Do a Google search and you can find the details I speak about on global warming trends. It is not politically correct for scientists to say that there is not global warming. Maybe someone can explain why these know it all scientists can't see that the sun has been extremely active recently and that Mars itself has also warmed up along with the planet Earth. So how does Mars heat up with nobody living there and no fossil fuels being used ? It must be the sun doing it. So if the sun is heating up Mars. It also stands to reason that the sun is heating up our planet. So low and behold the scientists are once again wrong. All this information that I speak of can be found on the internet. My wife and I had a big to do with our daughter and her friend about global warming. Both of them are college students and only believe what their teachers say about it. My wife dug deep into this topic and sent both of them all the information that she could find that said the sun was doing a lot of the global warming. Also the factb that many scientists will not speak out against global warming for fear of retaliation on funding of projects. The good old Media is pulling off another one of their tricks.

Since we are on the kick about global warming. How does Al Gore get all these awards when he builds a 10,000 square foot house that uses more electricity than four normal houses. Doesn't this make him a big hypocrite? Isn't this like telling people to conserve on energy so that I can use it in MY house?
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Bob, the vast majority of scientific community would not agree with you. how do you support this statement?
Vin, I see & read many interviews with many scientists on this topic. Very few seem disagree with what I wrote. Seems the vast majority of the scientific community believes that the earth warms and cools in cycles. What seems to be up for debate is if the speed at which we are warming is related to man made pollution. I am open to seeing more evidence on this, it is a topic I find interesting and have looked at a lot of data.
 

RedRocker

Active member
Vin, please put down the koolaid!!:1062: :yankchain:
Holes are being blown in Owl Gores :bsflag2: faster than he can say "Fill up my Gulfstream"!
 

RoadKing

Silver Member
Site Supporter
Bob, the vast majority of scientific community would not agree with you. how do you support this statement?

The scientific community has to make a living and if they convince enough countries that Global Warming is a threat we can do something about they have jobs (read grants) for life.

For example, auto mechanics who fix things that don't need it,

doctors doing unnecessary tests and pushing multiple drugs that do more harm than good,

politicians sending tax dollars home for things we don't need,

plumbers who'll change a faucet when a washer will do,

lawyers who schedule meetings and stall court appearances to jack up fees,

I worked in a university research campus for a few years and I was amazed to see professors and scientists applying for grants from a to z, most of it nonsense just to make a buck.

I have a problem believing people who have so much to gain from the issue they're promoting.

Like the guy at the Quick-Lube place who will gladly replace my $9.00 dirty air filter for $39.95. He may not be lying but he's not telling the truth either.
 

daedong

New member
Vin, (The Ipcc doesn't count )
And I suppose you go to a lawyer to fix your car.




I repeat the vast MAJORITY of the scientific community support that global warming is real and a big problem for the inhabitants of the planet.

You will always find rogues in all walks of life that go against the status quo

An interesting read, very different view from your Government officials than many of you folks here.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iCWtArXOO2sDCtRAPcakGGMFNeFAD8TG57Q80



US Says It Spends Most in Climate Fight

By MICHAEL CASEY – 12 hours ago
BALI, Indonesia (AP) — The United States insisted Wednesday it was taking steps to tackle rising temperatures and that many of its actions to promote energy efficiency and switch to cleaner technologies were going unnoticed by the rest of the world.
U.S. delegates on the sidelines of a U.N. conference on climate change said America had spent more than any other country — $37 billion — since 2001 on climate change-combating activities and was working to boost the use of cleaner technology and help jump-start negotiations for an agreement that will replace the Kyoto protocol in 2012.
"We are so serious about this that we are pushing to conclude the negotiations within two years, by end of 2009," said Jim Connaughton, the chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality. "We also are serious enough that we are putting a major investment into technologies that we need tomorrow — how to produce power from coal with low emissions, how to power vehicles with low emissions. These are enormous undertakings and we have to be more aggressive with them," he said.
Since the conference began last week, the United States has been on the defensive over its refusal to accept emissions reduction targets of 25 percent to 40 percent. The European Union and other governments say the figures are based on sound science and necessary to rein in global warming.
The U.S. said it didn't want to prejudge negotiations by agreeing to targets and maintained there are other options to lowering emissions. But most environmentalists listening Wednesday came away unconvinced.
They said the U.S. presentation — which promoted ramping up energy efficiency, nuclear power, renewable energy and biofuels to reduce climate change — failed to include necessary emission reduction targets or discussions on setting a price for carbon dioxide pollution.
They accused the Bush administration of hypocrisy for promoting cleaner energy options while at the same time threatening to veto an energy bill passed by the House of Representatives that includes requirements that electric utilities produce 15 percent of their power from solar, wind and other renewable energy sources.
"The presentation was an impressive display of a variety of important initiatives, but the parts don't add up to a meaningful whole if there is no leadership," said Kevin Knobloch, president of the Union of Concerned Scientists.
"What the United States desperately needs to do at these talks is make it very clear that we are ready to accept responsibility for our historic and current emissions and then help the rest of the world to the next round of binding commitments."
Alexander Karsner, the U.S. assistant secretary of energy, said such criticism ignored what the United States is already doing. For example, U.S. ethanol production has increased by 250 percent since 2000, he said, and new energy capacity coming on line from renewable sources has gone from 2 percent in 2004 to 22 percent in 2006.
The numbers for renewable energy additions were comparable to Germany and Japan, he said, and higher than many other European nations.
"I get a little confused when I hear the United States isn't doing much. There is an enormous amount going on in the United States," Karsner said. "Something is going terribly right in the United States with respect to the growth of renewable energy technology. We seek to make it better."
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
It's not US warming, it's GLOBAL warming. What is your and other countries doing about it. Don't hear much on that front. I know Japan is actively addressing NOx and SOx emissions but I ain't hearing chit about China who happened to take over as the country leading in CO emissions.

It all about Democrats getting attention in the USA, PERIOD!
 

daedong

New member
I appreciate that you acknowledge the existence of global warming. The action being taken is a whole other issue.

I can speak for Australia on this issue. Like so many things in a democratic society, due process takes time. Only in the last month an overwhelming number of Australians kicked out an 11 year reigning conservative government that would not acknowledge global warming. So we have only had less than a month for leadership in addressing carbon emissions. Only this week our newly elected Prime Minister signed the Kyoto protocol.

BTW I would certainly agree that not enough is being done, and no one ever suggested that the US are the single global warmers.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
BTW I would certainly agree that not enough is being done, and no one ever suggested that the US are the single global warmers.

No, but it appears most of the world purely puts the burden on the USA!

BTW .... I never admitted to acknowledging global warming! All I mentioned was carbon emissions................. I only highlighted the term, US vs. Global
 

daedong

New member
It's not US warming, it's GLOBAL warming. What is your and other countries doing about it. Don't hear much on that front. I know Japan is actively addressing NOx and SOx emissions but I ain't hearing chit about China who happened to take over as the country leading in CO emissions.

It all about Democrats getting attention in the USA, PERIOD!



No, but it appears most of the world purely puts the burden on the USA!

BTW .... I never admitted to acknowledging global warming! All I mentioned was carbon emissions................. I only highlighted the term, US vs. Global

No one has singled out the USA as the cause, But the USA seem to want to avoid a world cohesive approach in addressing the issue.

regarding the second paragraph I have highlighted your own confusion.
 

RedRocker

Active member
Follow the $$$$$ for the truth on perceived man made GW.
Who says the temps we're at now are normal? Why is a warmer
Earth bad? Longer growing seasons, milder climates in more places.
Much ado about nothing we can do anything about, much like the
coming ice age from a few years ago.
 

JimR

Charter Member
Follow the $$$$$ for the truth on perceived man made GW.
Who says the temps we're at now are normal? Why is a warmer
Earth bad? Longer growing seasons, milder climates in more places.
Much ado about nothing we can do anything about, much like the
coming ice age from a few years ago.


Very interesting statement you made here about the coming Ice Age. I rememebr that and how cold the winters were. Now we are doing the warming trend, big deal. I happen to like it. My oil bill has gone down and along with that my emmissions have been reduced.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
No one has singled out the USA as the cause, But the USA seem to want to avoid a world cohesive approach in addressing the issue.

regarding the second paragraph I have highlighted your own confusion.

There again, I was highlighting the term not the definition or the belief thereof, and if I need to make it clearer ...............

I believe that global warming is nothing more than cycles in the earth's atmosphere and our emissions have insignificant affect on global temperatures.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
As I was saying ................

Study: Part of Global-Warming Model May Be Wrong

Part of the scientific consensus on global warming may be flawed, a new study asserts.

The researchers compared predictions of 22 widely used climate "models" — elaborate schematics that try to forecast how the global weather system will behave — with actual readings gathered by surface stations, weather balloons and orbiting satellites over the past three decades.

The study, published online this week in the International Journal of Climatology, found that while most of the models predicted that the middle and upper parts of the troposphere —1 to 6 miles above the Earth's surface — would have warmed drastically over the past 30 years, actual observations showed only a little warming, especially over tropical regions.

"Can the models accurately explain the climate from the recent past? It seems that the answer is no," said lead study author David H. Douglass, a physicist specializing in climate at the University of Rochester.

Douglass and his co-authors S. Fred Singer, a physicist at the University of Virginia, and John R. Christy, a climatologist at the University of Alabama at Huntsville, are noted global-warming skeptics.

However, Christy was a major contributor to the 2001 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and is one of the world's premier authorities on collection and analysis of satellite-derived temperature data, having been commended by both NASA and the American Meteorological Society for his efforts.

"We do not see accelerated warming in the tropical troposphere," said Christy. "Instead, the lower and middle atmosphere are warming the same or less than the surface."

The difference between the climate models and the satellite data has been known for several years.

Studies in 2005 found that improper compensation for temperature differences between day and night was the cause of most of the satellite-data discrepancy, a correction that Christy has accepted.

No explanation has been put forth for the weather-balloon discrepancy.
 

Snowcat Operations

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
OK DEADONG your being as hard headed and argumentative as usual. Here are the facts. Yes "GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL". EVERY planet in our solar system is in fact getting warmer. The Earths oceans currents back in the 70s changed direction. Again a natural occurance. It has to do with heating and cooling of the oceans and to some extent the orbit Earth makes around the sun. Apparently this orbit and all the other planet orbits have been closer to the sun than what we (this generation) is use to. BUT the good news is the oceans currents have now reversed direction to what they were in the 70s and in about 10 years we will once again start experiencing a colder trend. I wonder what you tree hunging greenies will call it then? OH I know "CLIMATE CHANGE". The reason the idiots changed the name is because they know Man cannot affect the Earths weather period. And they also know that there Man made theory is full of crap. So to save face they now call is Climate change. The best thing to do is to study something for yourself and come to your own conclusion rather than let someone else do your thinking for you.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
There are more issues at hand that Chicken Little screaming "The Sky is Falling!" while he fills up his Gulfstream to fly all over the world. The Earth is going though it's cycles and there is nothing we can do about it. We will either follow the route of the Dinosaurs or leave the planet and find someplace else.... or not.

What "will" change the Earth is a bunch of religious goof balls that want to get ahold of a Nuke and vaporize a city in the name of God. In turn, that will cause most of their mideastern "Homeland" to be vaporized and ours, more than likely sooner than later.

The ensuing dust cloud of hundreds of Nukes going off will shield the sun and cause "Global Cooling" (Nuclear Winter) to the likes that Chicken Little has never seen.:shitHitFan:

When these "Sky is falling" clowns realize they were following the wrong God, it will be too late! We are at war, not with a Country, but a group of people that want to distroy us and our lifestyle simply because we won't convert to their belief. Meanwhile we are looking at milder winters as if that was bad. Cancer is cured at the early stages of detection, not after it has consumed the body....

The three headed, four eyed, five legged "Arctic Tree Darter" may be endangered... so we can't look for oil on our own turf until another source of energy is decided apon, so we give these religious Clowns trillions of dollars in our energy money so we can bring up their lifestyle so they can put us back into the 6th Century, where they want to be in the first place riding camels. :puke1:

I think people need to see the big picture, which amazes me that they are too busy watching the dull shine on their shoes instead. Fantisizing on somethat that we have no control over (normal weather patterns), verses something that we do (people that truely want to kill us)...:2gunsfiri

As far as the weather goes, people need to get back to looking at the sky and saying "Looks like rain", or "It's going to be a nice day"......:rolleyes:

I guess it is all about denial.... yeah, the earth is warming, so what, it isn't my fault or anyone elses! Does anyone remember what it was like getting up in the morning and turning on the TV and seeing a tower burning, then seeing a plane fly into the other tower on live TV, that was real..... How will you feel when you wake up and see in the news that New York, San Francisco or Seattle no longer exists....at all...

Hellooooo, anybody there @@
 
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Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I wrote early in the thread:
Global warming exists. I don't think that can be denied. I also think it is reasonable to suggest that things will continue to get warmer. It also seems reasonable to presume that the 12,000 scientists/politicians picked Bali because they got someone else to pay for the trip and it was the most expensive/exotic place they could go to spend other people's money!

What I think is possible to deny is that man/civilization is the major cause of global warming.

But what I think also seems to be obvious is that there seems to be repeated warming & cooling cycles. So while it seems obvious that warming will continue, it also will very likely be reversed and we will enter a cooling cycle at some point within the next few decades.
Then Vin wrote:
Bob, the vast majority of scientific community would not agree with you. how do you support this statement?
Then Vin later wrote:
I repeat the vast MAJORITY of the scientific community support that global warming is real and a big problem for the inhabitants of the planet.
What I see is a disagreement in terms. Nobody that I know of says that global warming does not exist. Nobody I know of suggests that it may not cause some serious problems. But where I think most of the disagreement exists is on the CAUSE of the global warming.

There does NOT seem to be any consensus on what is CAUSING global warming.

There DOES seem to be a lot of consensus among scientists of the climate that the earth warms and cools in cycles.

What seems to be the issue, in my little pea sized brain, is why, when there is no overwhelming evidence to support it, do we leap to the conclusion that man is the major cause of global warming? Again, I'm not denying that the earth is in a warming cycle. But there is so much conflicting evidence on the cause that it seems silly to opt for knee jerk solutions. Further, many of the developing nations (China/India/etc) seem to have become havens for pollution making industries because the nations that are developing often have lower regulations than the developed nations. Seems to me if we want to deal with this issue, we need to look at the factories and impose pollution tariffs or something like that so they are encouraged operate cleaner factories.
 

ALLEN PARSONS

New member
I see some folks would rather sit on the fence and do nothing.
They would rather shoot themseves in the foot with there gun, then admit
that pollution is a big problem.
It does not take a scientist to look up and see the brown haze in the sky.
It does not take a scientist smell the shit that is been put into the air.
Mabe some people like to live in all this shit. Life is short, so what hell.
I like to see the clear blue sky.
I like to smell the clean fresh air and drink the water from a cold mountian stream.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
I see some folks would rather sit on the fence and do nothing.
They would rather shoot themseves in the foot with there gun, then admit
that pollution is a big problem.
It does not take a scientist to look up and see the brown haze in the sky.
It does not take a scientist smell the shit that is been put into the air.
Mabe some people like to live in all this shit. Life is short, so what hell.
I like to see the clear blue sky.
I like to smell the clean fresh air and drink the water from a cold mountian stream.


There is a differance in cleaning up behind ourselves, being good stewards of the land, verses just wasting resources.

What I object to is the lack of common sense to the "Global Warming" issues where, "everything man does in America is bad", no other country counts and Al Gore gets an award for this! In the big picture, we have very little effect on the overall weather patterns in our normal daily life, tomorrow a vocano can erupt and cover the sky with ash and put us into a new Ice age within a year.

Last year a forest fire started a quarter mile from my house, burned over 200,000+ acres, you could see most of interior Alaska covered in a very thick cloud of smoke by satellite imagery (would have covered Southern Calif), that is more "Shit" in the air that 100 SanFrancisco's can make in a year.... but was done in a few weeks (and 100% natural!).

By the way, the smog in SanFrancisco is because it sits in a natural toilet bowl of mountains that does not let the air move freely (or flush) and from space, isn't anything but a small pin prick on the Globe....

You can't have a coal plant in the US, because the emissons are too "bad". Having retired from a coal plant and know full well that American Coal fired Power Plants have hardly any emmissions nowdays with all the Exhaust containment/scrubbing systems.

In China they have hundreds of coal fired power plants beltching black smoke as if in the 1930's in the U.S. and nobody points that out, they just say we can't build them here, but China is building them almost daily with no safeguards... go there and protest...and get shot... Meanwhile the rest of America goes to Walmart and buys the cheap Chinese stuff laced with lead paint for our kids.... I don't shop there myself!

Cars have Catalytic Converter's on them that converts the exhaust to Sulfur Dioxide instead of Carbon Monoxide.... Well duh, now the exhaust is clear, but much more deadly... So I guess if you can't see it, it don't bother us?

We can't drill in ANWR, off of Florida, Calif. or elsewhere because it will upset the balance of the "Eco" system. Having been in the Alaska Oilfields, I would say that isn't a real honest issue put out by the Anti-drilling groups, nowdays the oilfields are way cleaner than most cities. But China is joint venturing with Cuba to drill for oil off of Florida, I'm sure they are going to do a really clean job of not dripping any oil...(that was sarcasm in case anyone missed it) and will sell it to us cheap at $100.00 a barrel.

Nuking of an American city by our enemies is more of an issue that nobody wants to address.... You think the "Smog" is bad now...

No common sense at all...
 
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fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
Here is some photos of a Natural fire in Alaska that put more particulates in the air than the whole World did during the same period, it burned for almost a month and was in excess of 200,000 acres (Those smoke plumes are miles high, couple are 30,000 feet +). We have had at least one fire like this every few years, but it is a normal part of the eco system.... These fires go on all over the world, it is how nature cleans up garbage.

The last satellite photo is of Mount Augustine with the normal plume of smoke coming from it, there are dozens of other active volcanos doing the same thing. It would cover SanFrancisco in less than a day with the normal sulfer smoke coming out of it, that would kill a lot of people in short order, but it is 100% natural and biodegradible....

Everyone can tell me about Mt. St.Helen's, that darkened the whole earth and brought the temp down a few degrees for a year or two.

Point is that earth is going to do what it wants, get over it, cleanup after yourself, support our Troops and enjoy life....:beer:
 

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daedong

New member
fogtender catalytic converters do not address global warming, in fact it exacerbates it.


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-catalytic-converter.htm

A catalytic converter is a device installed in automobiles that is designed to reduce harmful emissions released from the vehicle’s exhaust. In the United States, all vehicles produced after 1975 are required to have a catalytic converter. This is part of an attempt to reduce air pollution.
Without a catalytic converter, the emissions from automobiles consist of noxious gases such as carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxide. These gases emitted from automobiles are the largest source of ground level ozone. Ground level ozone is responsible for smog, myriad respiratory problems and damage to plant life. A catalytic converter uses metallic catalysts, usually platinum, rhodium or palladium, that cause a chemical reaction with the noxious gases, converting them into less harmful gases.
The catalytic converter was developed in the 1960s, and by the 1970s, most vehicles were equipped with one. In 1975, the United States’ Clean Air Act required a 75% emissions reduction on all new model vehicles, which was to be achieved with the use of a catalytic converter. The catalytic converter is constantly being improved upon and is now more efficient than ever. In the US, these improvements are in accordance with the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) more stringent amendments to the Clean Air Act.
Although the catalytic converter has been very successful in reducing the dangerous pollutants released by automobiles, particularly ground level ozone, it has fallen under criticism. The catalytic converter may help to solve one serious environmental problem, but its use is a trade-off at the expense of increasing global warming. The catalytic converter creates and releases into the atmosphere gases that are responsible for global warming. Carbon dioxide, which is released along with the noxious gases from the vehicle’s exhaust system, is increased by the catalytic converter. Carbon monoxide, which is transformed into carbon dioxide, is harmless to humans and plant life, but it is responsible for absorbing the sun's infrared waves and causing the planet to warm up.
 
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