ST4 up for sale

Steve Hovenden · Jun 30, 2014

Hi folks, new guy here. a '66 Snow-Trac is up for sale here, and I'm not sure what I'm looking at. I've studied a bit and read some posts on this forum; this is what I can see: good tracks, tranny is said to be fine, a VW liquid cooled Jetta engine transplant with a nice interior heater. Army OD paint, incomplete dash, I think, and missing all right side seats. Class 3 hitch. Two flat tires, tired window seals (easy) and has been neglected. Carb issues, and I'm sure other things I wouldn't see with an un-trained eye in 15 minutes. The BIGGIE is some fool not only removed the right brake caliper, but went to the trouble of butchering off the rotor with a torch. MMMMM....this looks like a deal killer for me. IS that part available, at what cost $ and what cost time? The asking price is $2K. I know of 2 others (at least) that might be available in another town.....I'm going over there in a couple to look, chat and photograph. If I don't buy anything, I'd pass on the principals' name and number.
Any thoughts opinions directions will be appreciated. Thanks, Steve.

Melensdad · Jun 30, 2014

Brakes are pretty much unnecessary on a Snow Trac except as a parking brake. Even then their are of modest value.

If it runs and turns it is a steal at $2K.

Steve Hovenden · Jun 30, 2014

Wow, that was fast, thank you!
I did not know that, that's calming.
but are they available someplace? interior parts, or do we just fab them up? My thought was, with that kind of un-balanced weight cranking around in there, what might it do to the bearings. The guy said it runs great, just has to use starting fluid on first go. I hate that. Said the carb internals and mounting bolts were goofy, as in at least vacuum leaks. I see you have over 15K posts, I'm going to assume you know what you're talking about. I hope so, 'cause I sure don't. I've looked at ebay and allofcraigs to see if there are any parts sources/individuals....not doing well. I HAVE seen some beautiful restored jewels, though. I can always post pics sometime....especially after I look the others over. Don't know if they are for sale; but I do believe the owner won't be using them again. Thank you sir......thatisall.

Melensdad · Jun 30, 2014

Most of the mechanical parts are surplus VW parts from Bugs/Busses/etc.

Its pretty easy to find Snow Tracs in the $8,000 to $12,000 price range when they are running and in decent condition. Pristine/upgraded condition will fetch over $12K. Even a "parts" Snow Trac is worth $2K.

AdkSnowcat · Jul 1, 2014

Photos! Photos! Photos!!! Please!

All three in Alaska?

Steve Hovenden · Jul 1, 2014

I'll send photo's later in the week. Do you have a front drive sprocket and caliper?

jask · Jul 1, 2014

Would love to see some pics, if it had calipers and discs they were not original equipment. Do a search for gold cord mine and snowtrac manual and you should find a link to a fantastic repository of manuals and parts books.Hard starting could be a lot of other things, some easy , some expensive , but at that price you know you are getting a deal because much work will be needed....

Melensdad · Jul 1, 2014

Steve Hovenden said:
I'll send photo's later in the week. Do you have a front drive sprocket and caliper?

I don't have any more parts. I just sold my Snow Trac (looking for a new project) for a heck of a lot more $$$$$ than $2K.

But there are parts available! Bronze sprockets are made by a guy in Alaska, they run about $600 if I recall correctly, but people have been fabricating them out of plastic for under $100 and they seem to hold up in real world usage.

Snowtrac Nome · Jul 1, 2014

snow trac's never came with disc brakes in 66 the brakes were under the drums the track sprockets attached to. some folks opt for a disc conversion I have not found one to my liking yet. as Bob said the brakes do have limited use on hills it would be nice to have them and some times while loading on a trailer. I'm going on 5 years of hard use and still have not added brakes to mine. 2 grand sounds like a fair price as long as the frame is good and suspension components is salvageable. I have seen a lot of liquid cooled conversions there are only 2 snow tracs here that still have the aircooled motors in them they are also the only 2 left running. when I rebuilt mine I had thought about a Subaru motor I found parts for the little 4 cylinders of the 80' and early 90's to be hard to come by especially if you wanted to rebuild the motor. the lc motors also add weight and complexity to the machine as far as I'm concerned the heat from the ac motor is hard to beat. don't take this as me telling you to steer clear of the machine it's a project and you have to decide which way you want to go with it at 2 k it would still be feasible to re power it to air cooled again and do a good overhaul on the running gear.

JimVT · Jul 1, 2014

st4 or st4b?

Lyndon · Jul 1, 2014

In alaska? Likely LR's machine. Built up by a man in Homer. The single disk brake was a BUICK brake. Added when they did the engine conversion..... If it's the machine I'm thinking of.

Steve Hovenden · Jul 3, 2014

Thanks to all for the good info. The link to Gold Mine was/is invaluable. I still don't know what I'm looking at but it's not as fuzzy as it was a few days ago. Looks like Monday after the July 4th weekend I'll have some concrete info and photo's of hopefully more than one machine and maybe they will all be for sale. I see the disc brake is a conversion now. And im thinking about the Jetta engine....makes me wonder WHAT tranny is in there? If these were designed for a 53 hp motor and one tosses in a 90hp what breaks first? I've just been through restoring an old MB 230sl and a '71 GTO. I'm kinda sick of projects, frankly. But they're just so CUTE! This is how the disease presents itself, huh.....The '66......I don't know if the owner has the inclination or ability to get it running.....R&R the tires, for starters and get it running and into the street so it will turn and run..etc. I'd like to post a video of that.
See you Monday, gentlemen, and thanks!

jask · Jul 3, 2014

The Variator drive system was designed to mount on a beetle tranny, I have never seen anything else used- if this machine does have anything else please taker LOTS of pictures so we can see what has been done. Although VW uses a standard bellhousing pattern that allows lots of interchange options in different vehicles the output with the removable side covers is what allows the variator assemblies to bolt up. As a general rule VW was good at improving as they went and a later tranny is going to be better than an early design.

Snowtrac Nome · Jul 3, 2014

the transmission will hold together to about 100 horse power . I'm pushing about 70 through my modified 1600 engine

Steve Hovenden · Jul 3, 2014

Yes, it is an st-4, NOT the wider B model. I'm going over today and photo THIS one. The others will have to wait until Monday....

Sno-Surfer · Jul 3, 2014

Sounds like a good project. I'm not an expert but will say that some snow tracs did come with disk brakes. Mine has them, even a power booster. Not sure of the year but it's a later version, late 70's maybe? The earlier ones were all drum brakes from what I gather. I find that I do use them a little. I could live without them but we do have a lot of mountains here and the few times I've really needed them, I'm glad I had them.
Sounds like you can't go too wrong for $2k. Good luck!

Steve Hovenden · Jul 3, 2014

Ok, this is # 242....Anyone hazard a guess as to year? pics speak volumes. OEM roof/hatch is missing; replaced with a chunk of paneling....Trouble here is I have pics of the data plate, the engine bay etc...and can't get it to load? any help?

Track Addict · Jul 4, 2014

I'd pay 2k for that just to sit in my backyard. Don't know anything about snow tracs but base looks good for a project.

redsqwrl · Jul 4, 2014

As for the year it would be before 66'

Steve Hovenden · Jul 4, 2014

I believe you are correct....and the current owner has incorrect info....242 calculates out to be closer to 1960-61, not '66. It appears someone has done a disc brake and Jetta engine conversion; and one of the rotors has been hacked off. Upon closer examination yesterday, the small bogey tires are hard rubber with the exception of the front two....one of which is flat. the rear large tire( what's that refered to as?) has cordage showing through the sidewalls. This rig is pretty straight forward...lube, tires, bolt the carb on, purge the fuel system and go. It's got a fairly large heavy bumper and winch as well. this might get interesting. right up to the divorce......Also, I notive this rig has 6 bogeys wheels on the ground whereas others only have four? What's up with that? any meaningful significance? Thanks you ALL, and Happy Independence Day!

JimVT · Jul 4, 2014

I wouldn,t pass on that one if it is $2ooo. Not original but many good upgrades.
the jetta uses the same mounts as the original .
the wider track st4b has more boggies. He may have a parts machine someplace .
jim

Steve Hovenden · Jul 4, 2014

Thanks Jim....
I wondered if it was simply a design change on the bogeys. The larger idlers....what do people use as replacement tires?
The owner traded a tricked-out AR-15 for it a few years ago. No parts machine here.

jask · Jul 4, 2014

I would be all over that at 2K !! The serial puts it as 1962 production. The butcherjob on the large chain drive sprockets ( hacking the webbing out) would make me nervous enough to give those a really good inspection for cracks. there is a fair bit of slack in those drive chains that should be adjusted out, the bronze drive sprockets and track belting look great!. tires: I have read of people recommending BMW spares, and others have used the Alpine guide tires
http://www.alpineguidetire.com/snow-cat-tires/
That looks like a good start to a fun project Steve..... sorry to hear about the divorce

JimVT · Jul 4, 2014

solid bogies are ok . I wouldn't worry about the engine. it can be fixed if it is bad . the transmission is vw and rebuildable.
mine was about like it but a 1200 cc vw engine .I gave $8500.
I wouldn't tell anyone about it. It will get bought out from under you.
jim

jask · Jul 5, 2014

I agree,if there is a good chance you will buy it go offer them a deposit, it might be poor sledding weather now but someone is going to jump all over that in no time....

Snowtrac Nome · Jul 5, 2014

that's a strange critter I fogety what the guys name is I believe it is mike he owns the abby out on knick goose bay road he did the disc brake conversion and engine swap in it. the brakes I believe were off of an early model bus and the only mod to the hood was the little notch for the carb as for boggies what has happened is some one took axle tubes, sprockets and tracks for a 3 band model and stuck them on an early 2 band model snow trac which is why you have 6 boggies and no big wheel.

Steve Hovenden · Jul 5, 2014

Ah-Ha! So you've seen this particular rig before? That caliper looks pretty big to be from a bus.....but what do I know.

Steve Hovenden · Jul 5, 2014

to follow up....You are spot on....I've just spoken with him; he and the company he worked for, a 'sort of' dealer for snow trac, did 2 or 3 as an experiment in the late '70's..... His rememberances are that it was sucessfull as far as the bus brake and rabbit engine conversion went. More power, better heating and braking. So the brake R&R on this one is very straight forward....get another rotor and caliper and bolt it together. That's all he did in the first place. I beleive that was as far as this gentleman's shop went. The axle tube mod's were not done by him.

Melensdad · Jul 5, 2014

pictures???

Steve Hovenden · Jul 5, 2014

Yes sir....other than what was posted a few days ago? If there is something specific you would like to see, I can certainly provide.

ST4 up for sale

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