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Astro van cat conversion

redsqwrl

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

wake me up when you get to the axle shortening part. I have access to EDM, but save it for the important stuff like snow trac sprockets....

I have two pair to narrow and I am dragging my feet on the how, what too,
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

I am going to shorten the tubes myself, and then let the axle guys deal with the shafts
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

All the chassis chopping gonna be pretty mundane stuff.

Dirty, nasty, stinky (burning paint)

I am looking forward to getting the tub off so I can hit it with my big LANDA hot washer.

180 F @2000 psi will do a real job on the grunge...

After it's clean...then the plasma will go after the tub....4 inches out of it...
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Got out to the cat again today (Still very mucky where its sitting...need a bit more time to drain the swamp)

Did some looking up forward in the old engine bay.....
Going to be lotssa room in that area to mount the air compressors, tank and other goodies.

I had originally planned on putting that stuff in the rear of the van behind the last seat..

NOPE ...going to put it up forward and probably add some metal to the belly pan to close that area all in.

THIS WILL GET THE NOISY COMPRESSORS out of the van and actually easier to get power to and I can keep most of the Colored air lines and such in the tub.

There will still be a bundle of colored nylon air lines that will be inside to feed from the joy sticks at the drivers area to the rear of the van.

Going to add an air brake treadle valve along side the vans brake pedal arm and actuate it withe a bolt on arm/roller assembly that will simply bolt to the pedal arm (Easy to set up and remove)

After I got back I sat down and did the air schematic.

Sorry for not making it all readable from one side..... Oh well. It may change before we actually start running tubing and mounting the valves.

All standard air brake components that can be had at any parts house that deals with class 8 trucks,.

R6 Relay valves (2)
DC4 Double check valve
Type 24 brake chambers
Brake treadle valve (Several types will work fine)

Colored DOT nylon air line

With the treadle valve to control the foot brakes...having the double check valve and all will allow the brakes to be applied gently if need be and the pressure ramp'd up if required.

The joy sticks will operate at around (65 psi) For hard turns and much lower for corrective turning if you're booking it.... (2) position air control valve shuttles either high or low pressure air from the tank to the joy sticks... (Controls on the steering wheel mounted setup)

`The control valve for the pressure control is a 2 position lever valve NON SPRING RETURN
The joy sticks for steering are a N/C 2 position spring return valve 3 port type.



BLUE
YELLOW
RED
GREEN
ORANGE
BLACK

Dual 5 gallon tanks
(2) VIAIR 100% duty cycle pumps
Likely a drive shaft operated compressor "For the road"


Every time I get close to the cat I get more ideas.....
C'mon drier weather
 

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olympicorange

Active member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

…….. Hello S/R,.. I see you have a ''trolley'' valve in the schematic ,... always a handy feature,.... what model /and location … ''Air Dryer'' are you planning on using ,.... ejecting all oils/moisture saves a lot of headaches down the road . I have a model unit assy. I like to use , … compact & easy to service. …… i'm curious about the driveline drive system,....:thumbup:
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Hey..
If you are referring to the FOOT brake ???

That is a standard single circuit TREADLE/FOOT valve that is activated by the brake pedal arm in the van.

With the stock van brakes still fully functional the pedal will function...turn on the brake lamps etc.

There is a small bracket that mounts to the pedal arm and pushes on the valve plunger.

This was a simple yet effective way to have full pressure control from 0 to 65 PSI to control the brakes in a varying degree for easy smooth stops without harsh applications.

AS far as the Filter drier goes.

The Regulators shown in the sketch are actually filters as well.

This system is going to evolve as things progress.
I have looked at moisture ejectors, desiccant driers and other air management items.

I wanted to get the basic schematic on paper to be able to look at it and see just how it all looks when it's right in front of me and not just ideas....

Coming from an engineering and machinery building background I like to get ideas on paper and beat things around.

Saves a lot of $$$ in the long haul.

I am sure things will evolve more as we go.


The drive shaft thing.

Actually very simple.

Having the van as a CAT ADD ON....The van chassis is going to sit as close to the top of the 2100's TUB as possible and anchor via the wheel studs to the cat with 4 fabricated mounts.

The Cat differential is quite a bit lower than what can be connected with any realistic driveshaft.

(The van must remain totally intact....so it can roll off the cat and go shopping in a matter of a short time)

So....a drop box was needed to get the drive lines such that acceptable angles and other drive shaft geometry adhered to.
Main shaft has 2 cv joints with a 3rd CV on the front section (2 piece shaft) The shaft that connects the drop box and the OC12 has a 1410 at the OC12 and a 1350 at the slip yoke in the drop box (Shorty shaft...about a foot long)

An NP241 transfer case stood on end set into the cat chassis just ahead of the OC12 will give us the ability to use the (What was) the front output flange as our input and the original output slip yoke as the output to the OC12.

The shaft elevation has dropped 10 plus inches.

Now....

The original input has the adapter bolted to it and clocked to place the input at the needed 5.750" offset to the RH side

The original input (32 spline) is sitting there doing nothing.

A plate added to the front of the adapter with a flange bearing can easily support a stub shaft plugged into the old input coupler spline...

An air compressor mounted along side the the drop box can be run easily with a pulley off the stub shaft from the drop box...

A re-purposed crank shaft pulley and a tad bit of machining can easily get the compressor capable of operating at drive shaft speed.

Slow crawling may not do all we need in the way of providing air, but it will sure help when traveling at any speed.

The electric pumps are going to be the backbone of the air system though....


Here is a piccy of the 241 case sitting just about in the position it will be when it is finished.

Case will be run in the 4H position to engage the front flange. (There will be no low range, as this is only between the input and outputs with the original design...we are simply using the box to transmit power through and drop the elevation)

Yes...all the power will pass through the chain in the 241

After doing some serious checking on what that chain can handle power wise...and speaking to one of the major case builders...

It was determined that there are other places in the system that could likely be "A FUSE" before the chain goes away..

The 241 cases have been beaten horribly over the decades by many off road freaks with huge engines and they have lived well...sooooooooooooo I believe that the little Chevy V6 will likely not break too much....at least not without someone getting insane with things.

Many hours spent looking at the various concepts and going over the engineering.

Will this thing work ????? MAYBE...IT SHOULD :hammer:
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Things have taken a great turn.

We have a week of decent weather coming up and the plan is to get the Cat home next Sunday.

I have help with the haul too.

Son in law is going to haul the cat with his Dodge diesel and I will haul the rest of the crap on my trailer behind my Suburban.

The tracks, blade mount and sundry other loose junk.

With any luck I will have pix of this bad boy sitting in my yard soon....

Then the fun can commence..

Been a long wait for sure.

At least we don't have a looooooong road trip to deal with.... :thumbup:
 

Thefatsquatch

Active member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

This is a pretty sweet project! I had to do mine on a budget too, but that meant I had to do a LOT more labor. For instance to widen the tracks, I had to drill 1036 holes in chromoly grousers, and rubber belts. That's a whole bunch of bolts. The only thing I would consider is narrowing the tunnel, so you can get a decent flotation factor without being over-width.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

After a fair bit of calcs.... I need a 24" tub....66" center to center on the wheels and 36" on each track 102" OAW

Wider would be sweet....butttttttttttttttttttt PERMITS
WE HAVE A 102" WIDE BIG TEX TRAILER 25 FOOT DECK

Using the van pretty much stock takes a huge amount of work away as the van is totally functional now.

Power windows, Power mirrors, AC, Stereo...comfortable seating for 8 ...can't ask for more.
The old red van is a bit of a roach....but I only paid $1500 and drove it home back in Feb 17

The Van power train will connect to the cat via a custom set of 3 driveshafts and the modified NP241 tcase (Drop box)

The cat is basically an add on accessory to the van.

A different van of similar year could be swapped onto the cat and the Air system and other goodies all hooked up and off ya go....

Plan calls for a couple over head type bars up and over to mount flashing led light bars, LED white LIGHTEMUPS ALL THE WAY AROUND

All a bolt on system.

Unhook, unbolt and roll the van off and put the wheels back on....go shopping....all within an hour or so (After we gitter dialed in)

With the 3 foot tracks this little beast will take me anywhere I want to go....
Not planning on pushing a mile of powder.....

3 foot tracked Sprytes do really well....so this hybrid Franken cat should do great.......

Very little hard work.....once the narrowing is done, it's prime time baby ...

I can machine nearly anything I need in house....
 
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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

THE BIG PACKER IS HOME

The son in law showed up here at the ranch at 9 am and we headed off to Molalla, Oregon to get the kitty.

WE were there at about 10 and met the seller, his dad and set about getting the trailer hooked up.

The trailer had sunk in the soft dirt where it had been sitting for 3 years....

Big Dodge would not budge the trailer....just dug 4 big azz holes trying.

Grandpa went and got a large 4x4 tractor and hooked onto the big dog..

Things happened then.

The track (only got one.....another story) and the blade mount were in a small trailer behind the guys service truck...

We had to use his onboard hoist to put the track and other goodies on my trailer.

Add to the mix, one trailer tire on the cat trailer was shot (California wheels)

The seller swapped out the tire/wheel quickly....

We got the outfits lashed down and all ready to hit the road.

The cat was already loaded, but it would have been nice if it had been about a foot or so farther forward....a tad light on the draw bar....

Tony mentioned the tail was trying to wag the dog a bit.

We ran about 45 MPH max back to Newberg.

Stopped in town briefly at the cardlock to fuel the Dodge...a power outage had knocked out the cardlock sooooooooooooo...gotta catch Tony for the fuel to drag my toy home.....


The deal was sweet, the people were absolutely fabulous to deal with and ever so helpful.

Trip out and back was uneventful.....


Here are the piccy's
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

More trip pics
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

More trip pics.

I am the old fool with the gray T shirt and short sleeve biker jacket.

The weather was wretched this morning, but by the time we got to Molalla the skies cleared and we got the work done and the cat home without getting wet.

It was a bit chilly....but we stayed dry.

I was worried about the swamp the cat was sitting in (On the trailer) presenting us with much grief.... but having the big 4x4 tractor to give a tiny helping hand...all was good......
 

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PJL

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

A one track cat? Can you get the other track?
 

Jim_S

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

A one track cat? Can you get the other track?

I assume she’s doing a Paul Harvey and we’ll hear “the rest of the story” after the next commercial. :bolt:
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

AND NOOOOOOW...The rest of the story.......

The fella I got the Cat from bought this beast from some guy in Lapine, Oregon a few years ago.

They got the trailer loaded and just did not have enough room for the second track... simply no room.

So over the course of a few days, turned to weeks, turned to months many phone calls were made and remade with tons of phone tag and a firm time and date to come pick up the track could not be reached.

Andy (Fella I bought from) said he finally got tired of chasing his tail..

Too far to drive back over the Mt's if he could not contact the guy as the place was locked up with a herky azz gate.


Soooooooooooooooo...

Andy tells me that the guys phone number just goes to voice mail and no return calls.

Been 3-4 years now.....

I think we will have to consider it a lost cause....

Sad deal...even so....pretty good pile of parts to work with.


That's it folks...

Those tracks are so heavy that I am thinking that building a complete set of lighter custom tracks will be a better plan.

Generally speaking "A Spryte track" only long enough to fit the 2100.

Maybe full width grousers....At this point I am not sure and it's way too soon to get my panties in a knot over the tracks.

Actually, the track thing can wait until the frame and such is done.

I am sure that all sorts of great ideas will be offered from the crew here, and I am all ears :smile:


The first order of business after I get shed of this nasty Flu bug is to get this mess unloaded and return Andy's trailer.

Depending on how I feel here in a while I wan t to get the one track off my trailer and unhook the unit.

Then the tedious task of wiggling the cat off the trailer is next.

With the one side hanging off the deck and resting on timbers it's gonna be a bit of a issue.

I want to soak the nuts on the sprockets this morning and get the sprockets off...

Last thing we need to do is FUBAR one of them suckers while dragging that beast off.....

The sprockets are usable.....but thats about all I will say.....some teeth have some cracks.....

They can be recovered with new urethane.....but not now.

The build can be completed and things tested before the sprockets have to be reworked......
 

Thefatsquatch

Active member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

I just went from a 30"wide track to a 44" track (that's the size of each grouser on your wide track) for flotation. I did it by replacing every other grouser with a grouser from a single wide track. Bought one track, made two. However, that means I have all those short grousers left.
Re-drilling the rubber was a piece of cake once I discovered paper-drills. So handy, and cheap! Re-drilling the grousers was neither. About 70 hours of drilling and a thousand dollars of drill bits.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

My wide track is 57" across.
The grousers are offset every other one at 43" long..

Drilling....CARBIDE

Most hardware store bits are carbon steel. JUNK GOOD FOR WOOD

Minimum to use is high speed steel, then cobalt, and then the big daddy CARBIDE
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Well now.

An entire day ACTUALLY WORKING ON "MY CAT" NOT just dreaming about it.

Got dirty too.....

Opened the oil drain on the Diffy...very sad deal....Rusty water and oily slop.

Not much though...A pint or so

Got the sprockets off.

Tried to rotate the axles....NO GO

Crawled up and get to the drive shaft u joint and got a bar on it.

Reefed on that and finally got the thing to wiggle some.

Got a big azz bar on the axles studs...then some pipe....more reefing....then a little pop....things broke loose and the axles turn.

Likely things have a bit of rust (Bands....rear driveshaft brake ???)


I do hope that this thing has not rusted bad....that will suck.

At the least the sucker has gotta come apart.

Probably new bearings through it and clean everything..

The last diffy like this I was into was an OC6 crawler when I was in High School.... 1969 a loooooooooooong time ago..

But since the planetary's turn easy.....hope its not too bad.

I rebuilt a set of tandems in a PETE dump truck I bought back in 1990

The SQHD'S WERE FULL OF WATER

BAD UGLY
BUT......CLEANED THEM UP.....REPLACED THE BEARINGS....all good.

Ran that truck for 2 years and then bought a newer rig...

I was really bummed seeing that rusty slop.


One hub was off...bearings trashed....inner races still on the spindle.

Took a 5 pounder and a good chisel and knocked them bad boys off the spindle.

Shaft is fine....seal surface will need a bit of polishing and a speedy sleeve with sealant compound.....Good as new.

Hub is gross, but will be fine with a good cleaning and new races..

The front axle LEFT SIDE took a NUKE HIT it looks like.

Gonna chop all the out and do an inner sleeve and weld in some new tube.

Far enough back that it will not bother the flex rubber when I weld it.....

The rest of the frame/axles look good.

Where the diffy bolts on at the outer flanges the ears are sad.

Gonna need some loving there too....

So far this is all I see...

Hard usage me thinks.

While I am on the monkey deck I spot this fine POS of a hack job where some clown used a house door bottom sill plate with rubber and hung it up on the headache rack to hold an oil cooler.

NOW THAT IS A CLASS ACT ....OMG
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Got the skidsteer and the wee tractor into the act too.

Skid steer handled the track lift handily...

Got the blade off the right side and on the ground..


The slide stop plates on the grousers had bolts welded to them ?????? WHY

Two cute little tires/wheels
Laying on the monkey deck....came with the beast....maybe somebody needs these at their house ?????

Small cat tires ????? 4.80x8
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

All in all...It was a fabulous day.....

Got the cat ready to come off the trailer when the kid come back up.

Gonna stick a long 4 x 6 under the RH side of the axles..
Hit the timber with some water to slick it up and grab the cat with the Skid steer and drag it off on the ground PLOP////// :bolt:

The old skid steer has held many an engine being swapped into rigs here.

Bought it new in 1996..been a fabulous machine.....

Big ol bucket is about shot from hauling horse poop... RUST...RUST...RUST

Scat Track was the best machine I could find at the time..

Longitudenal engine. Kubota
Battery under the foot tray
Easy access to everything.

Climb steep with empty bucket and not roll over backwards... yes I TRIED....

Great day playing with my cat....far too long of a wait though
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

A few pix of the Scat doin the lifting on a deasel engine going back into the Dahoooooley truck...

Great tool....Skid steer is like a swiss army knife.......
 

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KickerM

Active member
Site Supporter
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

I’m guessing the bolts were welded on the side plates of your grousers for a poor version of an ice cleat/stud....
 

Thefatsquatch

Active member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Awesome progress!!
I ran into problems finding the same axles. The new 3500 pound axles seem to all step down to 1 1/16 on the outside of the taper, where these don't seem to. You are definitely more confident that me on the fabrication side of things! I am excited to watch this!
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Kicker

HMMMMMM, if the bolts were meant to be ice studs they certainly could have found a better way.

With that....I think somebody else torched them off flush....




Squatch

Well I spent a lotta years in the wood products machinery building business.

Welding, fabricating, machining

I guess I look at things differently than some.

We have folks here at the forum that have/are doing fabulous work on their cats.

My limitation now is age and health..... oh...and $$$$$

The body says..NO WAY....and the mouth says NO PROBLEM.

Anyway....and so here we go...



After 5 strokes and a go round with kidney cancer back in 2012 kicked my azz, my giddyupgo is a lot slower now

I have a simple little formula I use for most projects..

WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO ?
WHEN DO WE NEED TO DO IT ?
HOW MUCH OF IT DO WE NEED ?

May sound over simplistic..... but not really.

If you look at the entire project it can seem overwhelming .....but when ya step back and take a deep breath and look at it in small chunks....it allows ideas to come together far easier without the total scope of the project getting in the way.

For example.

Yesterday afternoon after the tools were put away I grabbed a lawn chair, scratch pad, pencil and a tape measure.....then just went over and sat down and started scoping out how I want to repair the front axle....and what the best way to narrow up the main frame is going to be...... Where to cut and such, trying to judge the best choices that will result in the best end result.

Then while snooping I found some of the ugliness left by the last crew....GAWD....


Until I get a good plan down on paper and the numbers look good in real time....the torch and the plasma stay in the shop...

Measure many times, cut once..


Repairing a preexisting design to bring it back to life is one thing, taking some things that were never meant to be together and molding them into the FRANKEN CAT is quite another...

I love to repurpose stuff....this can save mega $$$$$ when a little "imagineering" is applied...

OFF THE SHELF TECH IS THE TICKET..

Our good friends with the Tuckers see the results of proprietary thinking all the time.

I want to be able to get a part at the local corner Auto parts house, not have to wait for a large manufacture somewhere to ship me what I want....

Although I love ebay.....many top notch parts that would be available at the parts house can be had much much cheaper.

For instance...the Double cardan u joint components for my special drive shaft....
ebay for 1/4 the cost locally.....BUTTTTTTTTTTT....in a pinch when you are broke down....the local guys will have what ya need.


Another pet bitch I have.

IF IT SAYS "SNOW CAT" ON IT.....YER GONNA GET HOSED FOR $$$$$$$

Like track belting....
Yes there is good stuff, better stuff and then there is the stuff that some outfit says is the only thing that will work....BULL SNORT..

After looking over the track yesterday...

Save one belt for the length and hole pattern.....cannibalize the thing for the tire guides and start from scratch....build what I WANT....

At present the plan is looking like a 2 belt 36" wide full width grouser setup.

The design used on the Thiokol 601 seems like an idea worth consideration.

Doing some sketching on an idea for the tube grousers.

A simple step design drilling a 3/8" hole through the tube and then drilling the top out to 1/2" .... insert a sleeve to carry the clamping force to the lower part of the tube without crushing the tube.. a washer between the bolt head and the tube to spread the force.

This is going to take a bunch of time to do...but tubing is relatively inexpensive..

A drill jig will make this a walk in the park....do the critical layout and such once and then toss in a tube and drill the holes..

I think a set of these (one track) can be done in a day....maybe

4 bolts on each belt.....2 bolts to mount the tire guides 10 bolts each grouser....72 grousers 720 bolts per track.

1-1/2" tube 12 foot lengths 18 lengths of tube 4 grousers per length....

I can see an abrasive chop saw in my future..... Harbor Freight here we come.

Cutting this many tubes in my band saw is not a hobby...it's a career... noooooooooooooooooo..

The original belt lacers from the one track will/should suffice to make 2 tracks.

Just locate the stock units in the center and do it.

MAY WANT TO GO WITH WIDER LACERS ????? WE WILL SEE



A barrel of bolts from the wholesaler across town.....Far cheaper than dealing with the hardware store.....get them by the pound...

The backer plates on the inside ???? may use aluminum channel to reduce the weight.????

Looking quite feasible and far less expensive than buying new tracks.

Looking at the belt widths for a 2 belt system... using 12" wide belts may be an easy find and the tracks MAY end up a smidge wider than 36"

Will need to see how this shakes out before we narrow the frame.

GOTTA STAY AT 102" WIDE

May need to drop the tread width a touch....
More measuring, more calcs.

If I don't have to cut the belts I am gonna be a very happy camper.......indeed.....

And so here we go......






.
 
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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Design ideas sound great.....

I looked at the weight on the box tube idea holy crap batman.... wayyyyyyy toooooooooo heavy.

Gotta go with channel...

The tube was hitting the scales at 1300 plus for one track.....wrong plan.

We need half that or less.......
 

Thefatsquatch

Active member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

I think I weighed my grousers at 13 pounds for the 30” ones and 22 pounds for the big boys. Times 74, plus belting and a hundred pounds of bolts.. right about 1300 pounds each.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

The son in law came over and we took the kitty off the trailer...

I was worried that we might have issues getting it off since it was on timbers on the right hand side.

Tony hooked up his truck to hold the trailer.

I gave the cat a little nudge and the sucker was off of the trailer in a heart beat.
Down off there just a CHITTEN and A FOGGIN.. WOW.....

Brought the van over and introduced them...no hissing and spitting....seems they are cool..

The Astro is a nice size for the Packer frame....

Will be just about even front and back........

Now we gotta start pruning off all the crap.

About 600# in that huge rear groomer mount.....

All sorts of crap left stuffed into the engine bay.

Anyway... more pix
 

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Thefatsquatch

Active member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Oooh! I am envious! Your hydraulic priority splitter is externally mounted! Mine is under the cab inside the tunnel. Hopefully I don't have to adjust it. That seems to be about the right size and shape!
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Re: An introduction/hello and my project.

Well now...

All the brackets for the blade are bolt on items.
One has been partially welded but that's an easy removal.

AS soon as I get over this flu crud I want to get the cab off.

The hinge has been tacked on in a couple places....

I need the cab off to get at all the innards of the tub.

This beast is a mess...years of pine needles, pop cans and things ya likely do not want to know what it is all lurking in the belly.

I want to get the rear groomer mount off ASAP so I can pull the lid off the Diffy and get a look in there.

With what ran out of the drain hole....I am nervous about what may be lurking inside .....


But at least I was able to get the diffy moving.

These suckers were not designed with ease of maintenance in mind for sure....

The headache rack has got to come off, as does the fuel tank and all things back there
 
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