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septic system

cj7

New member
Well it looks like I have a line failing in one area of my leach bed for the septic. I found a nice wet spot in the yard that has not gone away in the last few weeks. I have never had to repair any septic lines before. The system was installed when the house was built in 1975.

Has anyone used the product advertised on this site:

http://www.amerisep.com/septic-free.html


Kinda seems to easy to be true?


Otherwise its dig it up, replace the pipe, add in new gravel? What kind of pipe and gravel?


How far underground should the piping be?
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
You may just need to pump your main holding tank out, if the main tank is full of sediment, it will start to run down your leach fields and start plugging them up.

You can buy expensive "Treatments" for your septic system, but pouring a bottle of "Yeast" does the same thing, it promotes bacteria growth, the same thing that makes bread rise before you bake it. I put about a bottle every other month in the toilet and haven't had any problems for years.

In the winter, I can tell it is doing something because the vents are breathing vapor from the warming of the bacteria's action. When I don't add it, I don't get the slight steam rise when it is cold out.

You will also get a "Smell" because of the yeast's action in the tank that you normally don't get without it, which is another sign it is working.

You can also spend hundreds of dollars for the Professional mix that is basically the same thing, simple baking yeast.

That site you listed sells the yeast in a sawdust mix, they were marketing it pretty heavy in Alaska and a few friends bought it, didn't do any more or less than a bottle of baking yeast didn't do, except cost a lot more.

Good luck.



Well it looks like I have a line failing in one area of my leach bed for the septic. I found a nice wet spot in the yard that has not gone away in the last few weeks. I have never had to repair any septic lines before. The system was installed when the house was built in 1975.

Has anyone used the product advertised on this site:

http://www.amerisep.com/septic-free.html


Kinda seems to easy to be true?


Otherwise its dig it up, replace the pipe, add in new gravel? What kind of pipe and gravel?


How far underground should the piping be?
 

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XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
My septic guy recommended sour milk. IMHO, as long as you aren't killing the bacteria in your tank with bleach, too much phosphates in your detergent, or a chronic anti-biotic user then your poop will work just fine.

I had a similar thing with my house. I had one wet area of my septic field. Instead of worrying about the pipes you should look at the distribution box first. Older distribution boxes can get out of alignment and cause all the run-off to go down a single line. In my case, I had an old concrete distribution box and it was cracked and pouring everything down a single line.

I dug up the distribution box and replaced it with a new plastic one with "levellers" Basically, the levellers allow you to adjust the flow to the lines in your leech field.

It's been three years since I did this and the field seems to be doing good. My leech field is on a hill side so the lowest corner still seems to green up better than the rest but there are no wet spots and there is still "greening" of the lawn along the higher lines which tells me that they are getting some of the run-off.

Be careful about talking septic stuff to your county officials. In my area they love to make people replace their septic tanks and fields at the earliest sign of failure. It's a bit of a racket up here, I think the county inspectors are getting kick backs from the septic repair companies.
 

ghautz

Bronze Member
Site Supporter
According to this link, the effectiveness of products such as that one is questionable.

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=98831

A couple of other forums I have read indicate the soil could be saturated. The cure there is a new leach field, in another location. Some folks have two leach fields, switching between them periodically to avoid saturation.

Another possibility is that the other lines are clogged, causing the one nearest to your wet spot to carry the whole load. In that case, the bacteria additive might work.

Good luck. That is one area of home maintenance I prefer to avoid.
 

cj7

New member
Is the distribution box typically straight down from the tank?

My system is also installed on a slope. And the wet spot is in the lower corner.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Is the distribution box typically straight down from the tank?

My system is also installed on a slope. And the wet spot is in the lower corner.

Yes, the house drain will lead to the distribution box which then branches out to your field.

I replaced mine for less than $100. A lot cheaper than a new septic field.

Oh yeah - it IS a shitty job. :yuk::doh:
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
My drain line enters the distribution box and is only covered by around 6-12 inches of soil from the main grade of the land. My distribution box has a huge mound of dirt over it so it was easy to find.

You can dig it up and pull the lid off and take a look pretty easy. Once you take the lid off you will be able to see how things are flowing pretty easily by just slowly dumping some water in the distribution box and seeing where it goes.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
Is the distribution box typically straight down from the tank?

My system is also installed on a slope. And the wet spot is in the lower corner.


The main tank fills from the house, if you have a well, it has to be more than 100 feet from the well. Then at the other side of the tank, a drain line comes from the top of the septic tank and goes to the leach field. If your main tank is full, the "Shit" flows (downhill) out the top drain hole and into your leach field causing blockage, the heavy stuff is "suppose" to stay in the tank and "rot" to a liquid then float up and down out to the leach field.

At that point, pumping the tank out is a no win deal. The damage is done downstream of the tank. The yeast "May" cause the blockage to go away from natural deterioration of the bacteria after a few weeks, but pumping a "full" tank is a good first step. Normally to prolong a septic tank system, it is a good idea to pump the tank every five to six years or so, which most people don't do.

Pump your main holding tank, put some yeast in it and wait, you can always rebuild the rest later if it needs it, which it may not, but by the sounds of it, your tank hasn't been pumped in almost thirty+ years.... Pumping the tank will cost a hundred dollars or so depending on the area, rebuilding a leach field that doesn't need it will cost a few thousands dollars... If you are flush with money, get a professional in there and he will help remove any excess cash you have on hand... It will be the worst case scenario you can imagine by the time he is though inspecting your system....
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Honestly, the first thing you should do is open up your distribution box. You will be able to see what is coming out of your tank there. If the distribution box is full of sediment then you know you have bigger problems. There may be some sediment in your distribution box especially if it is 30 years old.

When you have the lid of the distribution box take a bucket and scoop out the water and any materials. Then get your wife to flush the toilets a few times and see what is coming out of the tank. If it is relatively clear and free of "matter" and you are getting a decent rate of flow then your tank is probably OK.

Then watch and see how the distribution box is draining when it is gradually filled with water. Does one line get the water before the others? Then you need to level it. If your distribution box is in good shape you may be able to just buy some levellers and stick them in the pipes.

Here's some pictures of all the pieces I am referring too:

http://www.septicsolutions.net/store/distributionboxes.htm

Here's a leveller:

SpeedLevelers.jpg


You should be pumping out your septic tank every ten years. Depending on the size of the tank and how many occupants you may have to do it sooner or you may be able to stretch it out longer. Around here, it has to be done when you sell a house.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Also, around here it isn't cheap to get your tank pumped. It's $500-$1000 depending on the size of your tank.

Putting in a second leech field is going to cost you thousands of dollars unless you want to try and do it yourself. Even then the county permits and inspections are probably slanted towards discouraging you from doing it yourself.

But then again, I may just live in a more "controlled" area.

Checking the distribution box and levellers is something you can do yourself and is cheap. It's a good starting point. It took me a lot of research to figure this out. I was resigned to putting in a secondary field but so far I was glad I took the time to figure it out.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
One other thing, you may want to plug the bad line for a few months and let it dry out while the other lines take the load. Then go back and re-level the distribution box and get everything flowing equally.
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
Most of it has been covered.

I had to replace the leach field at the ranch. Dad boasted he had never had the tank pumped in 30 years. Then when he moved out to the ranch the last 3 years of his life, he kept trying to get me to pull the lid and take out assumed root growth blocking it. Said he couldn't possibly afford to have it pumped ($350) and why waste the money when I could just unplug it for him. Uh - no thanks Dad.

When I inherited the place I found the whole leach system plugged solid and the liquids exiting the tank's lid. The tank just needed pumping but I had to replace the distribution box (damaged in excavation) and the entire leach field.

I was lucky. My neighbor brought over his full size backhoe and we put in a whole new leach field, total cost $1800.

I buried scrap iron pipe over the distribution box and the cleanouts at each end of the leach lines. Hopefully I can locate them with a metal detector and avoid the damage we did to the distribution box as we explored for it. We finally found it 5 ft underground, designed that way because the lines had to run near-level from it while the surface sloped away.

I've read elsewhere it is a good idea to have a septic tank pumped every four years. I decided I'll do mine every presidential election year. That should be easy to remember.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
I've read elsewhere it is a good idea to have a septic tank pumped every four years. I decided I'll do mine every presidential election year. That should be easy to remember.

I think it really depends on your usage. I have my tank inspected every four years. The last time the guy came out he said it was good for another four. I'm planning on getting it pumped a little sooner just to be on the safe side.

Our county requires that the tank be inspected every 4 years but does not require pumping.

Why waste money getting it pumped if you don't have to? Although I think the newer systems do require more maintenance. They also have more moving parts and things that can fail. If you have an old system it is worth trying to keep it around as long as you can. Chances are if you have to replace the system, the county will require you to put in all the new fangled parts that are more likely to fail.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
Honestly, the first thing you should do is open up your distribution box. You will be able to see what is coming out of your tank there.


I would bet that a thirty year old+ system may or may not have anything but a "T" coming off the drain line from the tank and the leach field runs off of that though three or four runout lines.

Once you start digging, you may not get the results you want or are looking for, not to mention that damage that may result from a backhoe.

Pumping out the tank is the cheapest and quickest way to find if you have problems, if it is "Full of Shit" then you know that has gone down your leach lines too. By stopping the additional crap running down into them by pumping out the tank, you can try the yeast and see what happens, if it works, then great, if not, then plan on rebuilding the leach field which will "still require" pumping out the tank to solve the original problem of crap draining down into the field before it has turned into a liquid.

I installed a new system about ten years ago when the old system that was here, was full and had filled the leach field and it was past saving.

Nobody had pumped it since it was new from back in the sixties I would guess. I did get a few extra years out of it by having it pumped and then putting yeast into it, but it was too little too late. Cost was about 6,000.00 with new tank and leach field. Couldn't use the old area, was clogged solid and no where to take the bad dirt without paying an additional fee for disposal, was cheaper to install a complete new system at the time.

Basically, I figure start with the cheap end and then go to the more expensive end as required... Just to rent a backhoe to dig for your distribution box that may or may not be there is going to cost more than just pumping the tank
 

Cityboy

Banned
I've read that the useful life of most septic feilds is between 30-40 years. I've never owned one that old, but when I was managing property maintenance for my company, we own and lease lots of buildings with septic systems and this tended to hold true. Other factors that create problems was when we added on to the structure and increased staff, but not the field lines. A couple of kids added to the family and the increased washing machine and shower usage can push a marginal septic system past its limit.


The soil can only absorb so much liquid over given periods of time and some soils percolate better than others. It may just be time to dig new lines.

As far as septic treatments like Rid-x and other bacterial treatments, they do work as a preventive maintenance measure. While I was building my home back in Georgia several years ago, I had a camper there to use during construction and used the bacterial product in its tank. When I would dump the tank, everything from toilet paper to tampons dissolved into a brown liquid with zero soilds after it had sat for a few days. (It doesn't dissolve the brown trout & paper immediately) So if you flush some bacterial treatment down the toilets every month or so, it will keep the solids dissolved in the tank and keep the sludge out of your field lines. I've never pumped out my septic tank in any of the three homes I've owned and have had no problems, even with two teenagers the last few years.

Good luck with your problem, and please let us know what soultion you choose.
 

AndyM

Charter Member
Well it looks like I have a line failing in one area of my leach bed for the septic. I found a nice wet spot in the yard that has not gone away in the last few weeks. I have never had to repair any septic lines before. The system was installed when the house was built in 1975.

I'm actually looking at purchasing a house not too far from you that was built around the same time as yours. The current owners have not lived there for more than a few years and do not know anything about the history of their septic system. Before I make an offer on the house, I'm going to try and track down information on where the septic system is on the property and what type of system was installed. I'm going to assume this is maintained at the county courthouse in PA? That's where we had to get our septic permit when we built our house in Ohio five years ago.


How far underground should the piping be?
I believe it's generally 12 to 18 inches underground. The regulations may be different in your area. Many people take out the elbow out of the distribution box and let everything flow evenly all year long, but I feel it's better to use one field each for half the year. This gives an opportunity for the other half of the leach field to dry out and recover for half the year.

Do you have a curtain drain installed around the perimeter of your leach field? This is perforated pipe installed around the entire perimeter of the leach field, a few inches higher than the leach field pipe and empties out at a lower elevation. There is gravel installed around this pipe to the top of the ground. In theory, excess ground water is diverted into the curtain drain instead of filling up the leach field.
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
Why waste money getting it pumped if you don't have to? ... If you have an old system it is worth trying to keep it around as long as you can.
Actually I agree. Inspecting the septic tank will cost nearly as much as pumping ($350) so I'll pump it this first interval and ask a lot of questions. Then probably inspect it myself each election year, and request pumping if needed.

This leach field we put in is definitely old-school. No permit or inspection, no newfangled methods. Just perf pipe in 3/4 drain rock.
IMG_5955rSurveyLeachPipe.jpg

Now that I own a smaller backhoe I may dig some more leach lines. In particular, I'm considering individual gray-water lines directly from the house and cabin's showers to their own separate leachfields in the orchard. Those should reduce load on the septic system, hopefully letting it digest better and reducing the frequency of pumping. The washing machine over in the barn already has a separate leach line.

Cj7, I hope all this rambling on is giving you some ideas.
 

cj7

New member
Nice info gang. I figured some one knew some shit about shit.

I'll probably get the tank pumped here soon and add some bio to it first.

The last time the tank was pumped has been 4-5 years ago.

I do not think there is a curtain drain about the field. I see no evidence of a drain pipe for it.

I'll try and dig down to see if I have a distribution box and inspect. I hope this is not too deep as I would prefer to dig by hand. (I know that does not sound right) Rather not have to rent a backhoe unless needed.

The area that is showing me issues is kinda close to the runoff spring that comes off the hill. So the ground my be a bit saturated around here. It did show this last year then dry up later in the summer. I did dig down yesterday into that soil. There is waste water involved due to the oder.



Andy. Where are you looking at buying? I am not sure where you can find the info. When I bought ten years ago. I had a home inspection done. Shortly after I had the tank pumped. We had to find the lid but that was not too hard. I can onlt guess how the lines are laid out. Of course I know the location of one of them at least by a foot or two.


Hopefully I can keep this system going at not too much expense. The property across the road from me will eventully be housing. There is a public sewer and water line about 1/3 mile from me. I figure I would proabably be headed in that direction when the development happens.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Whoever said to leave your old system in the ground as long as possible gave some good advice.

Our house has two septic systems and I couldn't find either of them. I talked to the son of the guy who built the place and he told me where the tanks were. I found one easily enough but sometime in the last 40 years or so someone had built a concrete patio over the top of the second one. That's the one that handles 4 bathrooms and showers. So, any work on that tank will involve some serious demolition and reconstruction. I did find the distribution line when I was digging piers for a deck. It consisted of 6" diameter, 1' long ceramic pipe place end to end. It was plugged back to about 15' from where the septic tank should have been. I used a "boot" to connect the original ceramic pipe to new PVC pipe and had a whole new leach field run. All in all, it cost about $4,000.

I pour Rid-X down it religiously (I didn't know about using yeast) because I know it hasn't been pumped in at least 40 years but since there is only my wife and myself here most of the time, hopefully I can keep it functioning. I don't want to get involved in any other major reconstruction projects right now.
 

AndyM

Charter Member
Andy. Where are you looking at buying? I am not sure where you can find the info. When I bought ten years ago. I had a home inspection done. Shortly after I had the tank pumped. We had to find the lid but that was not too hard. I can onlt guess how the lines are laid out. Of course I know the location of one of them at least by a foot or two.

I am looking in the next county north of you. Being from out of state, I don't really know where to look for this information to help you or myself. On the particular house we are looking at, I know which side of the house the drain pipe exits through, and gives me a good idea where to start looking for the septic tank and leach field, but I am looking for more detailed information on the system.

When we bought our property in Ohio, we had the land tested and paid for a septic permit from the county. Things started late and our septic permit, which was only good for one year, had expired. I went down to the county courthouse, paid them 400 dollars for the new septic permit... the woman collected the money, walked over to the filing cabinet, pulled out our existing septic permit, crossed out the date and wrote the new date on the paper. She didn't even bother to print out a new copy with the revised date... Well worth 400 dollars!

Anyway, I told that story to bring up that our local county health department has our septic permit on file, and it describes the number and size of the tanks and the number of feet of line required for the leach field for the size of house we built. I'm assuming there is some government agency in PA (at a state, county, or township level?) that tracks similar information... anyone else in PA know which level of government would have these records on file?
 
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