Colorado Wilderness Proposal by Extremist Group

My husband and I along with a few others have been active in the White River Forest Alliance, trying to educate our locals. It seems this group has forgot to do that, and trying to slip a fast one on us all and go straight to the Senators and Congressmen to get this bill into legislation while they are favorable. We feel that wilderness is good in some areas, but not all. Utah has the 9 million acres being proposed, Montana has 650,000 being proposed or brought out already. This is scary, we could loose our public access everywhere. Once they start who is to say where they will stop!!! We can educate others to respect our lands, yet we could still use them how we chose either mechanical means, or motorized and of course legally. The Mountain Bike clubs here don't agree with this proposal, the Forest Service does not support this, and we even have counties that have land proposed for wilderness against it. Go to the poll that the local Aspen Times has, it is at the bottom of the page. Aspen Times Website

Please forward this to whom you feel would be concerned:


This is just a quick note to tell you about the 450,000 acre Hidden Gem Wilderness Campaign that is going on right now in the White River and Gunnison National Forests! The bill being proposed for this wilderness is going to be sent to congress in mid to late October by a group of environmental extremists based out of Carbondale. The areas they are looking to turn into wilderness are some of the best snowmobile, ATV, Dirt bike, 4-wheel drive and Mountain Bike areas in this part of the state. By designating it Wilderness this will severely limit how we access and enjoy our national forests. It will also affect our local economies as well. If this proposal goes through many businesses will be affected by loss of tourism dollars, including restaurants, hotels, gas stations, gift shops, and other specialty shops. A wilderness designation will close it off to all but a select few. Please take a moment and look at their web site to see the maps and see how this COULD affect you. Hidden Gems If we allow this to happen, it could happen in your area next. If we let this happen, one year from now 450,000 acres will be wilderness. If you would like to find out more on how to help stop this massive land grab please check out our website at White River Forest AllianceThank you

I voted in the poll. 92% are saying no, so most appear to agree with you.
Good luck. I don't know anyone to forward this to but if I think of someone I'll be happy to send it off to them.

They want to control public land that should be open to all and limit it's use to a select few. Similar proposals are being floated for the Allegheny national forest in Pa.

I'm on the fence with this one:

Where do you stand with excessively loud exhaust on all motorized vehicles. Many off-road enthusiasts in this area actually do anything they can to enhance how noisy and disruptive their machines can be. And sound carries a long long ways in the wildneress.

Packing in generators running day and night. (see above)

Leaving compromised designated trails and running haphazardly through area leaving scars everywhere for future users to admire.

Overall showing respect for the land and future uses of it and also allowing others room to enjoy the total wilderness experience also. There should be a way accomplish this, but remember just a few disruptive and destructive idiots can ruin a beautiful area in a relatively short time.

Bamby said:

I'm on the fence with this one:

Where do you stand with excessively loud exhaust on all motorized vehicles. Many off-road enthusiasts in this area actually do anything they can to enhance how noisy and disruptive their machines can be. And sound carries a long long ways in the wildneress.

Packing in generators running day and night. (see above)

Leaving compromised designated trails and running haphazardly through area leaving scars everywhere for future users to admire.

Overall showing respect for the land and future uses of it and also allowing others room to enjoy the total wilderness experience also. There should be a way accomplish this, but remember just a few disruptive and destructive idiots can ruin a beautiful area in a relatively short time.

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+1 Bamby!

I really hate the noisy off-road vehicles and the reckless driving. The vehicles are very noisy and can often be dangerous to others that want to use the same area. I have no problem with people that use a quad, dirt bike, or ATV responsibly with mufflers intact but I really hate being out in the woods and hearing the racket of unmuffled exhaust heading my way. It usually means I have to leash up my dogs so they won't get run over and then I have to stand off to the side while some mob of a-holes comes racing by.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is the actions of the irresponsible do impact my enjoyment of public lands so if it comes down to them against me then I have no problem seeing them banned.

Thanks for the replies and comments, there are bad apples in every crowd. I know in several Wilderness areas through out Colorado and Wyoming, the hikers/horseback crowd have left feces in a manner that the FS had to close the areas off, or go in and clean it up. HUGE MESS!!! As far as the loudness of motorized vehicles, Colorado has in many areas set up check points and your snowmobile, dirt bike and ATV they can only be at 88 for sleds and 96 for OHV's. This is helping us all stay in check and make sure we don't disturb the others. I agree on the loudness of OHV's, but my gosh those harleys, old street rods, old beater cars/trucks, and jacked up trucks seem to get away with alot. In the fall we have a trail clean up day for the snowmobile club, es we pick up any trash, and cut any trees that are certain sizes that will affect the snowmobile groomer. Small down timber we leave as it gets covered by snow.

live2ride said:

Thanks for the replies and comments, there are bad apples in every crowd. I know in several Wilderness areas through out Colorado and Wyoming, the hikers/horseback crowd have left feces in a manner that the FS had to close the areas off, or go in and clean it up. HUGE MESS!!! As far as the loudness of motorized vehicles, Colorado has in many areas set up check points and your snowmobile, dirt bike and ATV they can only be at 88 for sleds and 96 for OHV's. This is helping us all stay in check and make sure we don't disturb the others. I agree on the loudness of OHV's, but my gosh those harleys, old street rods, old beater cars/trucks, and jacked up trucks seem to get away with alot. In the fall we have a trail clean up day for the snowmobile club, es we pick up any trash, and cut any trees that are certain sizes that will affect the snowmobile groomer. Small down timber we leave as it gets covered by snow.

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You guys sound responsible. It just seems that every time I try to go into a National Park there is some idiots with very loud off-road vehicles that want to ruin the experience. It's getting harder and harder to escape them - and I try to go to places that are remote and unpopular too. The "popular" places are even worse.

I pretty much have to create my own hidden trails these days and go to great lengths to hide the entry point to the trails.

I guess there are just too many people and its the price we all have to pay.

"This week’s online poll has been pulled as a result of voter efforts to stuff the ballot box, so to speak."

Does that mean the poll is going against the views of the paper?

Many people will be affected if all of the area proposed is declared wilderness. Today across the country wilderness advocates are turning or trying to turn non wilderness areas into wilderness at the expense of all citizens not just the motorized users. Wilderness is great but it must exist prior, with a minimum of human impact/intrusion to be a real wilderness and should not created out of non wilderness lands. Ranchers and farmers have a huge stake in this proposal as they will lose valuable grazing they have used, made improvements on and have leased for many years. Future water storage for people and irrigation will not be allowed. Large areas of beetle infested/killed trees will just burn without a plan to harvest as needed to prevent wildfires. Even the Forest Service is not in favor of the total area being declared wilderness. The area of proposed wilderness in many respects just does not conform to a proper wilderness area designation in this hasty run by environmental extremists to push through Congress the proposal to change it into a wilderness designation.

If this wilderness is approved existing oil and gas leases will be voided.

ASPEN — The U.S. Forest Service doesn't believe all the lands targeted for Wilderness in the Hidden Gems campaign actually qualify for the special protection, according to the top local official in the agency.

Lands leased by oil companies

The debate goes beyond the philosophical. Fitzwilliams said the Hidden Gems proposal poses at least two practical problems. First, it would create Wilderness in areas where the Forest Service wants to remove trees killed by bark beetles. Second, the proposal would place the Wilderness designation on lands that are leased to oil and gas companies.

Interference with existing oil and gas leases is another concern for the Forest Service. Fitzwilliams said that five proposed Wilderness areas in Hidden Gems would affect 46 oil and gas leases totaling 36,584 acres. Those areas include Assignation Ridge and Thompson Creek southwest of Carbondale, as well as East Willow, Hayes Creek and Clear Fork.

The Forest Service doesn't have the option of ignoring those leases. “Existing oil and gas leases are essentially a binding contract — the lessor has the legal right to the oil and gas resources,” Fitzwilliams said.

“We need to shift. I think it's a little small, short-sighted anyway, to say the biggest issue we have is we need to make more Wilderness,” Fitzwilliams said. “I don't think that's the biggest issue in the Roaring Fork Valley.

“We could make [all forest lands] Wilderness and the issues are still right here, the ones that are really going to monumentally change the characteristics and natural resources of the valley — like [bark beetles] and the huge fuel build-up, development of private land and conservation of open spaces.”

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The rest of the article:
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20091005/NEWS/910059989/1077&ParentProfile=1058

Shutting down access to land because of a few assholes with loud pipes is the same as outlawing guns because somebody used one in a crime. Don't ever let the feds have that power. Try to control the abusers, putting up with them is better than zero access for everybody. Besides, you can always SSS some prick easier than you can a fed.

Comment comes to mind " a few bad apples can spoil it for the rest"
You think a season on bad apples would go over

we have the same problem in alaska....seems like 5 million acres of park land is not enough...thanks jimmy carter...but anyway,punish the few bad apples and leave the public lands open to the public.

Is anyone here familiar with R.S. 2477?

Most of the discussion about these proposals centers around recreational uses. Don't lose sight of all the rest of the restrictions that are imposed with Wilderness designation. Forest fires will be allowed to burn until they burn out naturally. The ashes they produce will flow unrestricted with spring runoff and rains into water reservoirs that cities and agriculture depend on because catch basins and dams are not allowed to be built in Wilderness areas to stop it. Any raw materials that are found in these areas will not be harvested or mined, ever. The dead trees from the beetle epidemic will be left to rot or burn. Minerals used in solar panels and other energy applications will have to come from existing opperations or imported from other countries, period. Transportation corridors including railroads that used to pass through these areas can never again be used. Emergency response to an airliner crash or even a hiker with a broken leg, greatly changed. If these proposals pass through Congress they will change the possible uses of these lands forever as we know it. What's the point when 77% of the proposed areas in Colorado are already designated non-motorized recreation. And by the way, PBinWA, in Wilderness designated areas your dog is REQUIRED BY LAW to be on a leash at ALL TIMES.

A very well written article on the Wilderness Gems Proposal:

The missing facet of the Hidden Gems

Opposition heats up
Mount Sopris Recreational Riders Club President Martin has his opinion on the campaign.

“I think their proposal has some real merit to it,” he said. “I think, in order to appease us all, it's got to be somewhere more in the middle than where it's at.”

Martin said that the rancher's support, like Fales, illustrates the bias of the organizations behind the proposal.

“It only accommodates those ranchers,” he said.

And he feels that snowmobilers and other recreationalists will end up a casualty if the Gems moves forward as currently proposed.

“I don't really think that snowmobiles bother too much,” he said. “But to get that wilderness designation you have to get everybody gone. And if you break a few eggs, that's just the way it goes.”

Martin admits his bias on the issue. Obviously, he enjoys being able to ride his snowmobile miles deep into the White River National Forest, including Thompson Creek. He said that the proposal aims to lock out the people, like the snowmobile club members, who enjoy the area as much as the other groups. And that the proposal accommodates only select groups such as hikers. However, he, too, agrees that the land needs to be protected.

“The majority of people — 100 percent — want to see it protected,” he said. “We just have different takes on how it gets protected.”

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20100125/VALLEYNEWS/100129927/1083&ParentProfile=1074

i don't think they want the land locked up as much as they don't want you not to have a use for your internal combustion engine here in alaska we have a slice of land called the arctic natioal wild life refuge that is as big as some of your states down south no motorized vehicles of any sort and aircraft landings by permit only the you couldnt see the country if you tryed to walk accross it in the summer so what is the use other than to hide it from every one . i do under stand those who complain a bout noise i don't do noise well either to many years working around 2 cycle detroits respect others rights slow down and put a muffler back on and that goes for harly owners too.not every body has months to get out and enjoy the out doors some of us have jobs to get back to and enjoy our machanised transportation now the hikers and mushers can be just as big of asseholes many times i have been riding sensably on a trail cut by a snoe machine and got the mddle finger salute from a musher just because your dogs peed on the trail now does not reserve it for mushing you wan a dog trail break it by sled and mark it and i will respect it don't kick me off of a trail i broke bottom line is we need under standing public land is just that for the public and not 1 groupe we must learn to be civil and understand every body is going to want to access it and enjoy it differently.