Illinois Hams may soon lose ability to talk & drive.

JEV · Feb 1, 2012

From the Nanny State that brought you Barack Hussein Obama, Rahm "Deadfish" Emmanuel and some of the strictest gun laws in America, a new law looms on the horizon to further protect us from ourselves while driving in the state of Illinois...the "distracted driving bill." Here are links from the QRZ page where I found this, as well as the legislation's proposed wording. Note that while there are exemptions, ham radio is NOT one of them. If you are a ham in this state, you may want to contact your representatives about this bill if you use a ham radio while driving.

http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/513841

QRZ article

Cowboy · Feb 1, 2012

I dont know Chit about "Ham" radios, but curious as to what this below actually means.

Btw how do you get under bridges and underpasses with those bigass towers on your roof? :biggrin:

( unless the electronic communication device is used in hands-free or voice-activated mode or one of 5 other limited exceptions apply.)

joec · Feb 1, 2012

They recently passed a similar law here about talking on a cell phone being illegal if driving unless it is hands free, voice activated. I think this is aimed at drivers that text while driving.

tiredretired · Feb 1, 2012

I have bluetooth in the Sonata which connects to my cell phone. Not sure if it qualifies for true hands free cause I still have to push a button on the steering wheel to answer a call. No different IMHO than pushing buttons on the steering wheel to change stations or adjust volume in radio mode. None. I would continue to do this no matter what stupid laws they pass. A certain amount of common sense must prevail. :hammer:

Snowtrac Nome · Feb 1, 2012

that is my beef on all these stupid laws texting is stupid enough IMO but while driving that should be common sence since radios got drop down menues and volume and channel knobs went by the wayside i don't even try to adjust the radio if i'm moving anymore the 2 way radio is all i touch it has a volume knob and ptt button if i have to do any thing else i pull over better getting there late than never.so why do we need more stupid laws that won't be enforced unless you are in an accedent. watching these kids now days i have to wonder if texting is addicting

squerly · Feb 1, 2012

dds said:
so why do we need more stupid laws that won't be enforced unless you are in an accedent.

We don't dds. The books keep getting fuller and fuller with stupid stuff and pretty soon nobody can do anything without running afoul of the law. In my opinion, there should be NO new laws passed unless they find an outdated one to remove. A -0- growth law if you will.

Snowtrac Nome · Feb 1, 2012

good idea i nominate you for office

joec · Feb 1, 2012

TiredRetired said:
I have bluetooth in the Sonata which connects to my cell phone. Not sure if it qualifies for true hands free cause I still have to push a button on the steering wheel to answer a call. No different IMHO than pushing buttons on the steering wheel to change stations or adjust volume in radio mode. None. I would continue to do this no matter what stupid laws they pass. A certain amount of common sense must prevail.

Here it is considered fine to use. It is the ones that have the cell phone in their hands while driving and texting. Even my laptop is voice activated when I use it for GPS so it would be legal also since I don't have to touch it. As for buttons on the steering wheel to turn it on an off that is also fine as it is built into the car. Radio, CD players etc are all built in so not a problem at least here just texting or taking holding the phone while driving.

FrancSevin · Feb 1, 2012

Breaker one-nine!

I don't know if anyone still uses them but what about CB's.

During the 70's and 80's everybody had one.

Met my wife on one.

Such a law back then could have saved me from 45 years of bliss. :whistling:

thcri · Feb 1, 2012

FrancSevin said:
Breaker one-nine!

I don't know if anyone still uses them but what about CB's.

During the 70's and 80's everybody had one.

Met my wife on one.

Such a law back then could have saved me from 45 years of bliss.

Well breaker 19 if you would have gone to the other channel like you were supposed to have you might have lost her. Dang it I hated when that happened.

joec · Feb 1, 2012

FrancSevin said:
Breaker one-nine!

I don't know if anyone still uses them but what about CB's.

During the 70's and 80's everybody had one.

Met my wife on one.

Such a law back then could have saved me from 45 years of bliss.

I would guess they are legal as most truckers still use them based on the ones that deliver here.

FrancSevin · Feb 1, 2012

joec said:
I would guess they are legal as most truckers still use them based on the ones that deliver here.

Of course they are "still legal" Joec. But for how long.
The Crux of the argument rests on the fact that many who drive, use these devices to be productive and get their work done. A considerable majority do so professionaly and without risk to the public. But the 0.0001% who frack up are costing the rest of us to give up the tools we need to accomplish our work day.

joec · Feb 1, 2012

FrancSevin said:
Of course the are "still leagal" Joec. But for how long.
The Crux of the argument rests on the fact that man who drive, use these devices to be productive and get their work done. A considerable majority do so professionaly and without risk to the public. But the 0.0001% who frack up are costing the rest of us to give up the tools we needt to accomplish our work day.

Another conspiracy to make life tough for you. These laws are passed because people are causing accident while driving mostly due to texting on cell phones while driving. Usually by kids but not always. Here is the problem not your CB, radio, DVD or ham radios in cars. A number of states have passed laws about driving while even using a cell phone. Now I don't ever use a phone in the car but I can understand people driving and being distracted to the point of doing damage.

http://www.nsc.org/Pages/NSCestimates16millioncrashescausedbydriversusingcellphonesandtexting.aspx

FrancSevin · Feb 1, 2012

joec said:
Another conspiracy to make life tough for you. These laws are passed because people are causing accident while driving mostly due to texting on cell phones while driving. Usually by kids but not always. Here is the problem not your CB, radio, DVD or ham radios in cars. A number of states have passed laws about driving while even using a cell phone. Now I don't ever use a phone in the car but I can understand people driving and being distracted to the point of doing damage.

http://www.nsc.org/Pages/NSCestimates16millioncrashescausedbydriversusingcellphonesandtexting.aspx

Not all of us are stupid dumb shits Joec. Some of us can actually tie our shoes without help or protection from the government. All the while chewing gum.

Besides,danger is mother nature's way of getting stupidity out of the gene pool. The same lame elites that want us to have free dangerous sex and legalize drug use, want to keep sensible people from being productive. The very same people, in this case you sir, who complain about the encroachment of the Patriot Act, (which doesn't really effect them or their freedom), say this is a good idea.

No law has ever come close to fixing stupid. Many laws come very close to being stupid. If not in their intent, then in their actual implementation.

In the end, it is not so much a matter of protecting us from ourselves but having control over behavior.

When a cop pulls you over for talking on the phone, is it because you were driving recklessly?
No

Is it because you were driving too fast?
No

Is it because you put people in danger?
No.

Then Why?

Because he wanted to and, he could.

joec · Feb 1, 2012

FrancSevin said:
Not all of us are stupid dumb shits Joec. Some of us can actually tie our shoes without help or protection from the government. All the while chewing gum.

Besides,danger is mother nature's way of getting stupidity out of the gene pool. The same lame elites that want us to have free dangerous sex and legalize drug use, want to keep sensible people from being productive. The very same people, in this case you sir, who complain about the encroachment of the Patriot Act, (which doesn't really effect them or their freedom), say this is a good idea.

No law has ever come close to fixing stupid. Many laws come very close to being stupid. If not in their intent, then in their actual implementation.

In the end, it is not so much a matter of protecting us from ourselves but having control over behavior.

When a cop pulls you over for talking on the phone, is it because you were driving recklessly?
No

Is it because you were driving too fast?
No

Is it because you put people in danger?
No.

Then Why?

Because he wanted to and, he could.

I sure don't want to end up getting hit by some dummy texting on a cell phone and not paying attention to the fact I'm stopped in front of him at a stop sign. As for the ham radio and other things really are a smoke screen. As for dumb shits the world is full of them. They have laws making you wear a helmet on a motorcycle, they also have laws making you wear seat belts neither of which I'm a fan of however that is what I have to do to drive in this state. Now those protect you from yourself in my opinion hence senseless.

I'm not defending the law only stating why they pass them as the accident rates have climbed as a result and innocent people get hurt due to stupidity of others. Now want to discuss drinking and driving next? Damn, man not every one is as smart as you think they should be, a simple fact of life, but by the same token I for one don't want the problems of dealing with their stupidity either..

FrancSevin · Feb 1, 2012

joec said:
I sure don't want to end up getting hit by some dummy texting on a cell phone and not paying attention to the fact I'm stopped in front of him at a stop sign. As for the ham radio and other things really are a smoke screen. As for dumb shits the world is full of them. They have laws making you wear a helmet on a motorcycle, they also have laws making you wear seat belts neither of which I'm a fan of however that is what I have to do to drive in this state. Now those protect you from yourself in my opinion hence senseless.

I'm not defending the law only stating why they pass them as the accident rates have climbed as a result and innocent people get hurt due to stupidity of others. Now want to discuss drinking and driving next? Damn, man not every one is as smart as you think they should be, a simple fact of life, but by the same token I for one don't want the problems of dealing with their stupidity either..

Ponder this couriosity JoeC

Every technology ever invented has it's risks. Based on your logic,we should outlaw cars because, people who use them sometimes can serious injury or death.
And nail guns and drills and shovels and chainsaws and stoves and fireplaces and motor boats and jet skis and space heaters and matches and so on ed nauseum.

BTW,
That very same cop in my post, has to operate a laptop computer,a cell phone and one or two radio sets, all inside his car as he pursues you, just to do his job.

joec · Feb 1, 2012

FrancSevin said:
Ponder this couriosity JoeC

Every technology ever invented has it's risks. Based on your logic,we should outlaw cars because, people who use them sometimes can serious injury or death.
And nail guns and drills and shovels and chainsaws and stoves and fireplaces and motor boats and jet skis and space heaters and matches and so on ed nauseum.

BTW,
That very same cop in my post, has to operate a laptop computer,a cell phone and one or two radio sets, all inside his car as he pursues you, just to do his job.

I give up on you Franc, you just want to argue at this point. This which I read was not has nothing to do with ham radios, music radios, GPS etc. It is about using cell phones while driving which has caused more than a few deaths over the last couple of years. Driving isn't a right but a privilege. They pass laws to save innocent people from stupid people hence the purpose for laws in the first place. Hence they have laws against drunk driving, murder, robbery etc. I might add the deaths aren't usually the ones that are stupid but someone that happens to be in their way at the wrong time. If you can't see that then perhaps you should reconsider your own ability to use common sense. I hope you never get hit by some moron texting with his/her buddies at a red light. And yes all technologies have their draw backs as to safety however lets not help it along in killing us either. :hammer:

FrancSevin · Feb 1, 2012

joec said:
I give up on you Franc, you just want to argue at this point. This which I read was not has nothing to do with ham radios, music radios, GPS etc. It is about using cell phones while driving which has caused more than a few deaths over the last couple of years. Driving isn't a right but a privilege. They pass laws to save innocent people from stupid people hence the purpose for laws in the first place. Hence they have laws against drunk driving, murder, robbery etc. I might add the deaths aren't usually the ones that are stupid but someone that happens to be in their way at the wrong time. If you can't see that then perhaps you should reconsider your own ability to use common sense. I hope you never get hit by some moron texting with his/her buddies at a red light. And yes all technologies have their draw backs as to safety however lets not help it along in killing us either.

First,the thread was about ham radio operators. It apparently evolved to CBS and cell phones. Your point was a fear of idiots using cellphones when they drive. My point is that every technology has it's dangers when stupidity is involved. I just wish we didn't need to lose personal freedom just to untilize technologies.

Idiots don't need cell phones, ham rdios or cb's to kill you with their cars, just stupidity.A chees burger, cup of coffee or bag of fries will do the job just as well.

Laws which attempt to control stupidity are most often themselves Stupid. But they are inacted by people who feel the need to "do something!" Sadly that something often removes, from the rest of us responsible citizens, the freedom to live our lives without the govenment being involved.

You seem to like the government being involved. So far they have apparently not bothered you. Ignorance is bliss so,,,, Lucky you.

As for me, and many like me,I do not expect the government to protect me from stupidity, especialy my own. It flies in the face of the word freedom to do so.

Catavenger · Feb 1, 2012

I agree that if a person is stupid they can be "distracted" by anything , be it a radio or cellphone or whatever. This will be yet another unenforceable law.

joec · Feb 1, 2012

FrancSevin said:
First,the thread was about ham radio operators. It apparently evolved to CBS and cell phones. Your point was a fear of idiots using cellphones when they drive. My point is that every technology has it's dangers when stupidity is involved. I just wish we didn't need to lose personal freedom just to untilize technologies.

Idiots don't need cell phones, ham rdios or cb's to kill you with their cars, just stupidity.A chees burger, cup of coffee or bag of fries will do the job just as well.

Laws which attempt to control stupidity are most often themselves Stupid. But they are inacted by people who feel the need to "do something!" Sadly that something often removes, from the rest of us responsible citizens, the freedom to live our lives without the govenment being involved.

You seem to like the government being involved. So far they have apparently not bothered you. Ignorance is bliss so,,,, Lucky you.

As for me, and many like me,I do not expect the government to protect me from stupidity, especialy my own. It flies in the face of the word freedom to do so.

Here read what the bill says it is about.

Amends the Illinois Vehicle Code. Provides that a person may not operate a motor vehicle on a roadway while using an electronic communication device (rather than only prohibiting the composing, sending, or reading of electronic messages while operating a vehicle) unless the electronic communication device is used in hands-free or voice-activated mode or one of 5 other limited exceptions apply.

Now in all honesty how many people have a ham radio on their car and don't tell me a CB is a ham radio as I know they are the same neither by the way are mentioned in the law.

Laws are made to protect you from me and me from you. No other reason to have a law at all in a free country. Next time you pay your car insurance then don't bitch about your rates going up do to the increase in accidents in your area.

Ok now go argue with someone else and hopefully you will never be injured by someone doing something they shouldn't regardless of a law against or not.

And if you want to make this person ass hole then have at it, but bring it to personal messages.

Melensdad · Feb 1, 2012

Well I'm not sure why people have gotten so upset in this thread.

Insurance studies show that people who simply use a cell phone while driving are as likely to get in an accident as if they had been drinking. Its worse for TEXTING. I can't image that operating a HAM radio would be any better.

The facts are that any DISTRACTION to driving can lead to an accident.

The facts are also that people tend to ask like idiots and do crap that is unsafe. Me, I hate when the cell phone rings in the car even with auto-answer/bluetooth systems.

Sure I get it that this thread is about HAM RADIO but all the distractions are the same. I'm car shopping now and can't believe that some cars are now equipped with Wi-Fi hotspots, can access Google, etc. Its all distractions. It all leads to accidents.

Maybe it shouldn't be ILLEGAL to use stuff, but its STUPID to use it in a car. Even if it is ILLEGAL it will be next to impossible for the police to enforce.

squerly · Feb 1, 2012

Yipes!

FrancSevin · Feb 1, 2012

Melensdad said:
Well I'm not sure why people have gotten so upset in this thread.

Insurance studies show that people who simply use a cell phone while driving are as likely to get in an accident as if they had been drinking. Its worse for TEXTING. I can't image that operating a HAM radio would be any better.

The facts are that any DISTRACTION to driving can lead to an accident.

The facts are also that people tend to ask like idiots and do crap that is unsafe. Me, I hate when the cell phone rings in the car even with auto-answer/bluetooth systems.

Sure I get it that this thread is about HAM RADIO but all the distractions are the same. I'm car shopping now and can't believe that some cars are now equipped with Wi-Fi hotspots, can access Google, etc. Its all distractions. It all leads to accidents.

Maybe it shouldn't be ILLEGAL to use stuff, but its STUPID to use it in a car. Even if it is ILLEGAL it will be next to impossible for the police to enforce.

Multitasking is doing two or more things competently without compromise. Since a very young age, I have been able to take a dump operate the equipment,wash up and put my zipper, belt buckle and shirt tail all where they belong, all the while reading the paper or a school text and listening to the radio and keeping track of time.

Not one accident.

I have had a CB or a cell phone in my car since 1967. With well over a million miles,maybe even two million, I have yet to have an accident because I was on a communication device.

Idiots decide getting drunk is more important than being a safe driver.
Idiots decide the fries onthe floor are more valuble than the health of a pedestian in the cross walk.
Idiots decide that texting their girlfriend is more important than safely operting a train.

I have no proof I am not an idiot but, I have done none of those things.

So, having proven I can multii task in a car as well as when taking a dump for more than 45 years, and that I am a reponsible operator of a moving vehicle, why must I give that up because some people are idiots?

Melensdad · Feb 1, 2012

Most people who claim to be able to multi-task actually have not been tested to see how ineffective they really are while multi-tasking.

JEV · Feb 1, 2012

Back on topic, as written, ham radios are NOT an exempted use nor are CB radios. Neither has a huge following in the voice activated (VOX) category, yet both similar forms of communications have proven countless times to be life saving communications devices while rolling down the road at legal speed. Neither requires taking your eyes off the road. For those who did not read the entire articles, it was pointed out that ham radio operators are federally licensed, which gives us a modicum legitimacy. It was also pointed out that many of us are volunteers who are trained as SKYWARN storm watchers, reporting "real time" severe weather conditions, via Amateur Radio, to the National Weather Service. We often see things that Dopler Radar cannot pickup, and this free service has countless stories about these reports getting out weather warnings that have saved many lives. Pulling over to the side of the road, putting your vehicle into park or neutral, then making your report could be a matter of life or death...the do-gooders know little or nothing of this service we do.

Federally licensed Amateur Radio operators are also involved with Amateur Radio Emergency Services, ARES, voluntarily working with agencies such as FEMA, Salvation Army and the American Red Cross. These operations often require instantaneous communications from mobile operators, which would be illegal under the proposed law as written.

This proposed law is nothing more than pandering to a bunch of do-gooders who have no fucking idea what they are asking for. The lawmakers only give a shit about passing laws that will garner them votes to get re-elected to their cushy jobs a legitimate criminals. JMHO

FrancSevin · Feb 1, 2012

Melensdad said:
Most people who claim to be able to multi-task actually have not been tested to see how ineffective they really are while multi-tasking.

Truth be told the Human brain is designed to functionon primarily one idea at a time. So , based on that simple thought, we should remove everything from cars that requires more than one mental activity.

That would include, along with cell phones, Kids, wives, music, Shift nobs,clutches and steering wheels. Leaving the operator with just the accelerator pedal upon which to focus their attention and a brake pedal for when that one device fails him.

Try making that legislation fly.

I'm not being rediculous here. I am demostrating the very basic question as to where, of all the multitasking involved in the operation of a vehicle, do you draw the line as to what is too many functions?

Texting is surely beyond that line but having a conversatin with a passenger is not. And that is no different than having one with another person back at the office.

The problem really comes when someone uses as their excuse for running into your car, that they were busy texting, or grabbing their coffee, to prevent their stupidiy. And somehow, to them, that is an OK excuse.

If you drive drunk, it is not my fault if you hit me, it is not the bartender's fault and it is not the manufacturer of the booze or the car's fault. It is yours.

Same with improper use of any thing in the vehicle, including the steering wheel, accelerator pedal or the nobs and buttons on the radio. And laws prohibiting their use when driving won't prevent the stupid from hitting you.

Melensdad · Feb 1, 2012

Frank, I agree. We should remove all the distractions.

I don't think we can get that legislation to pass.

But it would be the right thing to do.

FrancSevin · Feb 1, 2012

JEV said:
Back on topic, as written, ham radios are NOT an exempted use nor are CB radios. Neither has a huge following in the voice activated (VOX) category, yet both similar forms of communications have proven countless times to be life saving communications devices while rolling down the road at legal speed. Neither requires taking your eyes off the road. For those who did not read the entire articles, it was pointed out that ham radio operators are federally licensed, which gives us a modicum legitimacy. It was also pointed out that many of us are volunteers who are trained as SKYWARN storm watchers, reporting "real time" severe weather conditions, via Amateur Radio, to the National Weather Service. We often see things that Dopler Radar cannot pickup, and this free service has countless stories about these reports getting out weather warnings that have saved many lives. Pulling over to the side of the road, putting your vehicle into park or neutral, then making your report could be a matter of life or death...the do-gooders know little or nothing of this service we do.

Federally licensed Amateur Radio operators are also involved with Amateur Radio Emergency Services, ARES, voluntarily working with agencies such as FEMA, Salvation Army and the American Red Cross. These operations often require instantaneous communications from mobile operators, which would be illegal under the proposed law as written.

This proposed law is nothing more than pandering to a bunch of do-gooders who have no fucking idea what they are asking for. The lawmakers only give a shit about passing laws that will garner them votes to get re-elected to their cushy jobs a legitimate criminals. JMHO

I agree. But I also add that many civilians use their vehicles for such purposes including Civil defense, which at one time many CB'ers were doing. But again, where do we draw the line here?

If I have a whip antenae on my car and it is illegal to transmit while driving, can I receive? Must I pull over to transmit? Is that really a divergence of my attention to driving that represents a danger?

Seems stopping on the roadside in bad weather is likely just as dangerous.

FrancSevin · Feb 1, 2012

Melensdad said:
Frank, I agree. We should remove all the distractions.

I don't think we can get that legislation to pass.

But it would be the right thing to do.

That would be a nonsensical thing to do.

Then you would make it impossible to operate a vehicle with the exception, perhaps, of a moped.

18 wheelers could not function without the driver's having the ability to multitask beyond aiming their 66 thousand pounds of hurtling steel within the lines on the highway.

I was onece told by a highway engineer that a stop signis a very dangerous traffic control. It gives drivers a false sense of safety when crossing an intersection. I would suggest that anti cell phone laws would do much the same thing.

A little common sense goes a long way to the proper operation of a vehicle. And I object strongly to anyone's attempt to remove my right to excercise it.
Just so they "feel" a bit safer.

squerly · Feb 1, 2012

How about a simple rule that says the driver pledges to conduct the operations of his vehicle in a safe and controllable manner?

Illinois Hams may soon lose ability to talk & drive.

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