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Hey, Catholic Church! Your ignorance is showing!
- Thread starter DaveNay
- Start date
Oh boy. This could get interesting.
First off..., I am making an assumption as to why you take such offense to this....
Second... Where is your source for the statement you purport that has been stated? I am guessing the quote or link was lost in your disgust.
Third... Where is Bob. I want to see this one play out...
thcri
Gone But Not Forgotten
I wondered what pissed you off Dave so I did a search. Best or first I found I really don't know why this would piss you off.
In No. 2377, the Catechism explains why the Church opposes methods that separate marital love-making from baby-making.
They dissociate the sexual act from the procreative act. The act which brings the child into existence is no longer an act by which two persons give themselves to one another, but one that entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person. Such a relationship of domination is in itself contrary to the dignity and equality that must be common to parents and children. Under the moral aspect procreation is deprived of its proper perfection when it is not willed as the fruit of the conjugal act, that is to say, of the specific act of the spouses' union.
In successful in-vitro fertilization, a human life comes into existence outside the conjugal act and outside the womb. Conception is the result of a technician's manipulation of "reproductive materials." The process for the collection of sperm often necessitates masturbation, which is itself immoral.
benspawpaw
New member
dont get me started. ok too late. my wonderful grandson was born thru ivf. his mom had her tubes tied in previous marriage. when her and my son got married they wanted a child, and we a grandchild. it seemed the best way (cost me over 16,000). the ones left over after implant were kept frozen in case they needed to try again. it took the first time and we have a wonderful grandson. i wish i could post pics but cant. the left over were kept and later given to a couple who inturn had a child. so i guess you could say i am ok with ivf.GOD WORKS IN WAYS UNKNOWN TO US WE DONT HAVE TO UNDERSTAND JUST BELIVE
The Tourist
Banned
Look, no one has more disgust and contempt for Rome than I do. If there is a "whore that rides atop the red dragon" then certainly it is this bunch of thieves and liars that make tinkers look moral.
But I feel this way about enemies. They're mindless clowns that simply want me dead or silenced, that's why they are the enemy.
If you really want to tear the mask off of this union, tax them. For all of the prime property they own and for all of the revenue they bilk from innocent people, they have plenty of blood money to share.
But my point is this. They wander around throughout society as this meek little coven with a humble Uriah Heep philosophy. However, if our Republic would invite their leaders into our government they would land with jackboots and an iron fist.
They are the enemy. What kind of discourse do you expect from them? Babies? Indulgences? Their hierarchy? Pay them no homage. Let them know any fight will be to the end, even if we must endure a Pyrrhic victory.
For me, I'll stand against them even if it means I have to drown them in my own blood.
But I feel this way about enemies. They're mindless clowns that simply want me dead or silenced, that's why they are the enemy.
If you really want to tear the mask off of this union, tax them. For all of the prime property they own and for all of the revenue they bilk from innocent people, they have plenty of blood money to share.
But my point is this. They wander around throughout society as this meek little coven with a humble Uriah Heep philosophy. However, if our Republic would invite their leaders into our government they would land with jackboots and an iron fist.
They are the enemy. What kind of discourse do you expect from them? Babies? Indulgences? Their hierarchy? Pay them no homage. Let them know any fight will be to the end, even if we must endure a Pyrrhic victory.
For me, I'll stand against them even if it means I have to drown them in my own blood.
The process for the collection of sperm often necessitates masturbation, which is itself immoral.
Nah - it can't be.
Nah - it can't be.
.. and that's all I'm saying on the matter..
Hey, I can respect Dave (and like him) and have a different theology than he does. I have no problem with that.
The Catholic Church doesn't believe in artificial means to attempt pregnancy, nor to prevent it. Its very consistent. Not everyone agrees with that line of thought.
Damn Bob. You let me down. We all know you like Dave and respect his views even though you don't agree. I know the street runs both ways. I expected a little more debate out of it I guess.
Personally.. I think I like CG response best... quickly followed by wannafish...
Exactly what I was thinking, so does the Catholic Church not approve of the way Jesus was conceived?
The Tourist
Banned
Why do guys care? The vatican isn't going to support your child, just whine about how you're doing it.
Lots of women took birth control during the 1960s when the papists went absolutely bull-moose loonie on anyone defying them. Did you ever here of any vatican police office arresting anyone? No, not one, not a single unrepentant woman.
So now they're at it again. The Marines free us from the Axis powers, and the moment their khaki backs are turned millions of Americans are all too eager to hand over those hard-fought freedoms to another idiot in a funny hat.
Yikes, Sonny Barger makes more sense than any pope I've ever seen. And Sonny doesn't speak pigeon English. Great googlie mooglie, tens of millions of dollars in the vatican bank and not one of these pedophiles has the brains to take a Berlitz course.
And yet we trust these guys with our personal internal plumbing? It's called a "pap smear" not a "pope smear."
Lots of women took birth control during the 1960s when the papists went absolutely bull-moose loonie on anyone defying them. Did you ever here of any vatican police office arresting anyone? No, not one, not a single unrepentant woman.
So now they're at it again. The Marines free us from the Axis powers, and the moment their khaki backs are turned millions of Americans are all too eager to hand over those hard-fought freedoms to another idiot in a funny hat.
Yikes, Sonny Barger makes more sense than any pope I've ever seen. And Sonny doesn't speak pigeon English. Great googlie mooglie, tens of millions of dollars in the vatican bank and not one of these pedophiles has the brains to take a Berlitz course.
And yet we trust these guys with our personal internal plumbing? It's called a "pap smear" not a "pope smear."
Well given that invetro didn't exist, its not accurate to say that Jesus was conceived that way.
Exactly, the only people that this affects are the faithful practicing Catholics. No one else is effected, and the practicing Catholics are affected by their own choice. I guess I don't see this as an issue for people to get their panties in a wad about.
The Tourist
Banned
That's like saying cigarette smokers light up because it's their choice. They're hooked.
Most of the "practicing catholics" you mention actually believe that the pope is man's intercessor to God. Most of the catholics I speak to claim that their faith has a "direct lineage" to Christ and St. Peter.
That's funny, history shows four breaks. In fact, four popes actually went to war with each other. The 'winner' was the one that killed the other three. One pope died in a French prison.
This "choice" is simply a sophisticated game of three-card-monte. It bilks little old ladies. It sways governments. It has killed innumerable millions of "heretics." A victory plate, which still hangs in the vatican, celebrates the pope's army overrunning the Huguenots with cavalry. It took three days to butcher the tens of thousands of victims, and the pope was so happy he hung the plate--he should have hung himself.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, unless that's your "choice."
That is all irrelevant to the topic.
As DaveNay posted, Catholics believe that artificial insemination, specifically invitro fertilization is immoral. Those who do not follow the Catholic faith do not necessarily hold the same view. Therefore, the theology mentioned in the first post really only affects practicing Catholics. I don't see what the big deal is.
As DaveNay posted, Catholics believe that artificial insemination, specifically invitro fertilization is immoral. Those who do not follow the Catholic faith do not necessarily hold the same view. Therefore, the theology mentioned in the first post really only affects practicing Catholics. I don't see what the big deal is.
BoneheadNW
New member
I guess I must have drank too much. I agree with you Bob.
Bone
Well I suppose it could be the drinking, but then maybe you actually took the time to read the pdf file that Dave linked to? Doesn't really matter. But the PDF file clearly states that the document is addressed to the Catholic faithful. Given that, I'm not sure why this would be a problem or issue for anyone who is not a Catholic. If someone else holds a different faith, or no faith, and therefore a different belief set then this is simply not an issue that they need to be concerned with.
BoneheadNW
New member
OK, now hold that thought. I don't want to hijack the thread, but in light of your bolded statement above, I want your opinion of the big hoo-ha that was created when the atheists put up their sign in the Washington State Capital. One could extend your statement to argue that these people who are so opposed to the atheist sign should just mind their own business. Believe what you want to believe, the issue (not believing in Jesus) is not something the believers should be concerned with.
What do you think Bob?
Bone
AndyM
Charter Member
Seems to me that in the Catholic document that was released it was aimed at the Catholic faithful but reported on by the media.
The atheists, on the other hand, are advertising their beliefs publicly, on public land, to attempt to influence others and therefore they open themselves up to counter arguments.
The atheists, on the other hand, are advertising their beliefs publicly, on public land, to attempt to influence others and therefore they open themselves up to counter arguments.
BoneheadNW
New member
The nativity scene is not advertising Catholics' beliefs publicly? It is on public land. I have no problem with it, and no problem with the atheist document. Seems like the people who are against the document are hypocrites.
Bone
Is the Nativity scene "Catholic" or is it from one of the many non-Catholic Christian groups, or is it from an interdemoninational faith organization? Not all Christian symbols are Catholic. Catholics just happen to make up about 25% of the population so we get associated with many things that we are not necessarily responsible for doing. I know that we have a Nativity scene on our county courthouse lawn but I am pretty sure it was not put there by a Catholic organization.
BoneheadNW
New member
My error. Change the word "Catholic" to "Christian" so that my question now reads: Does the nativity scene (in this case, the one in the Washington State Capital) advertise Christian beliefs publicly?
Bone
BoneheadNW
New member
I just read this for the third time and have no idea what it means. Anyone want to help me out here?
Bonehead
OK, now I will agree. Either one, on public ground, is open for being criticized, ignored, or supported.
Neither, however, is similar to the document that the Vatican released to its members, largely because the document released is effectively an 'internal' document to members of the Catholic Church. The 'symbols' on your Washington State Capital property are very different in their intent. I don't see a problem with having them on the property, others suggest that neither should exist. But again, those are different issues than the Vatican document, which was simply reported on by the media, but not posted on government land with the intent to influence others.
BoneheadNW
New member
My opinion is ignored or supported, and if criticized, both should be criticized equally.
I agree 100%.
Bonehead