ICBC and Snowcats

Hello fellow BC recreational Snowcat operators...

I was wondering what anyone has done about the new "rules" in place in British Columbia in respect to registering their machines....

I own a PistenBully. I do not have registration papers...just serials...I am concerned with the bigger picture here, as we are definitely not all terrain vehicles. We are not necessarily in any of the categories...

My use is typically trailering a cat to a local remote area, often hardly used by anyone, sometimes old cut block access roads etc....

(Inserted from ICBC...
Off-road vehicles
Register all off-road vehicles (ORV) or complete transfer of ownership transactions at any ICBC Autoplan broker.

The Ministry of Forests, Lands & Resource Operations (FLNRO) has launched a new registration system for off-road vehicles (ORV). ORV registration with number plate display will be mandatory on Crown land, including resource roads on Crown land, on Nov. 1, 2015. Off-road vehicles that will be operated in limited circumstances on a highway have been required to obtain registration, a plate, a licence and insurance since Nov. 17, 2014. ORVs operated solely on private property do not require registration or a number plate.
Types of off-road vehicles
An off-road vehicle is designed for off-highway use and does not meet safety standards for on-highway use. The following are the eligible ORV vehicle types:
Golf carts
Snow vehicles
Snowmobiles
All-terrain vehicles (ATV)
Trucksters, and
Restricted use motorcycles (RUMs)

Sourced from...http://www.icbc.com/vehicle-registration/specialty-vehicles/Pages/Off-road-vehicles.aspx
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Who has registered their snowcat under this new program in BC?

On a side note to the licensing...I have been thinking about if it would help, or assist in access or whatever, that we form a group? Possibly help with important issues such as access? if there is a designated category that we are going to be put into to pay to play.... Even if not does the western region, Alberta Canada, US /Canada/ East to West Coast....whatever; feel any interest in forming up such a group?

Thoughts comments...

A

Grrrr,... ICBC, Gov't Shysters. I fear we are screwed. You will comply, they(ICBC) can't run the operation proper as it is, Q- why do they need in on recreational vehicles at all? A- $$$$$ Sno Cat people are a small percent but our money is the same and some of it needs to be in their hands, it's for your own good. Bet your ass some over zealous Ranger Gord will be ready to stop you even with vehicle on trailer to check your papers. Papers, where are your papers? Too bad we have to deal with them, I've been looking for a way to have some kind of provincial registration so I have paperwork to cross border. To bad they are the only option, I WILL COMPLY .Sad sad sad

what is the cost to register yours? Use On private lands it says you don't need it.
jim

On private land you do not, but most of BC is Crown land...

It is a nightmare right now... the basic registration and plate fee is 48$, but unless you can basically show chain of ownership back to original sale you will need to provide a notarized declaration as well. ($$)
Insurance is required through ICBC if at any point you will cross a roadway during operation 48$, however this will not cover you on crown land forestry or fire access roads and you will need to get insurance through a private carrier for that 98$
ICBC will only be administering the registration database and enforcement and regulation fall under Lands,Mines ,and Natural resources and they have an impressive list of fines as part of the regulations.

For any of you visiting BC:
If you are from a jurisdiction that requires registration you must have it, must display plate or decal proof, and must carry documentation and produce when asked.. if you are from a place that does not you will need a transfer of ownership to prove ownership if the vehicle has a VIN or serial, a bill of sale or letter of ownership otherwise.
All operators over 12 must carry Gov. photo ID or a passport that has both date of birth and CURRENT address ( yeah that is a fine too...)
seatbelts if OEM must be used by everyone.
lights are required dusk to dawn and temporary white front/red rears are acceptable if they were not OEM.
if you are crossing roadways or operating on forest service roads you must have and produce a valid drivers license and proof of 200K$ in third party liability insurance.
The whole thing is giving back country users fits because there are at least 3/4 agencies that need to be dealt with, and none of them really know what is going on beyond how it impacts them... people who have had vehicles for years and failed to self report and pay Provincial sales tax on the purchase are now running around looking for old or non existent bills of sale etc..

Alpine this was an out of control avalanche 5 years ago, I wouldn't step in front of it right now

I spoke to my snowmobile service guy who has wife in the insurance office. He said she said in two more months the brokers will be able to sight the unit thus eliminating the need for notary$$$$$.

Mother Tucker said:

I spoke to my snowmobile service guy who has wife in the insurance office. He said she said in two more months the brokers will be able to sight the unit thus eliminating the need for notary$$$$$.

Click to expand...

I hope she is right but they announced the program in 2009 with a 2011 roll out date....
They used to allow brokers to "sight" trailers that did not have VINs but have been requiring a notarized declaration on those for over a year, and it seems like they do not want to get caught issuing registration on something that may be later disputed, previously rebuilt, etc.

not good news to me here in S.E. BC

The latest update: I now have a registered and plated Snow Trac !!

However..... it is registered as a commercial vehicle and wears a restricted plate! The last week has been an exercise in politics and patience but the long and short of it was that the people who matter and decide thought that because these were historically used for commercial and industrial use that it would be easier for them to register it as a commercial vehicle and be able to offer me insurance, they wanted to know if I would ever use it for paid or unpaid work that was other than personal recreational use ( since I could forsee transporting people who would at least be paying gas, or making it available to the local Ham radio or search and rescue groups that is a yes...) and decided that put it outside of the scope of the ORV ( outdoor recreational vehicle ) program. It would appear ( possibly ) that this works out better for me... but I have a call out to the Provincial dept that has authority over the program for a final decision, as after reviewing all the material online I feel like they really have no idea one way or the other.... who knows, I might end up with two plates before I am done

I am going in on my Pisten Bully today. I do not have "registration papers" but serials and all that....VIN and it was not stolen so that is a start I suppose. Registering it commercial ; does this give you the ability to operate on crown land? With plates can you walk it down forestry roads? How much are you paying per year for commercial registration and those commercial plates? What category of Commercial did it fall in? Anyone else have luck registering machines lately?

registering
may require paying a sales tax in some of our states if it wasn't already done.

In BC, if you do not have registration papers, you will need to fill out a document stating when you purchased, serial/ vin#, then you will need to take it to a notary, or the local BC Access building they can apparently do it as well and for cheaper (30 dollars or less possibly? ) This builds the governments "paper trail" and sets up for taxation. (Because we have way to little taxation in British Columbia) If your purchase date was since 2010 you will need to pay tax on the amount. As for Commercial, I can just transfer this into my companies name if I so choose. The part about registering because of commercial aspects troubles me as I know it becomes a deep dive into details operating with passengers especially with purpose to ski or snowboard. I would be careful in BC about declaring transporting people for money if the end results are requiring commercial recreational tenure (cat skiing, heliskiing,licensing etc. ) Some of those old cat and heli companies have lots of government Sway in BC. Look at it this way, it was in fact not staunch environmentalists that lobbied for these Massive federal Caribou Red List zones in BC (for those that know what joke some of those areas being re listed are...) advocates actually include some of the big heli and cat ops pushing for closure in those areas. It Allows the (Intrawest owned)CMH's of the world to keep on keeping on, with un-encroached terrain tenure boundaries while opportunity for the little guy including recreational is getting very difficult. We need to wake up in BC, I was out touring the other day in Wells. I took my dog and girlfriend. I drove out a road that was obviously active (on a Sunday) and followed as far back as I could go (and Up) I could tell trucks and active logging was going on in the area. At some point I arrived at reasonable elevation. there was obvious cutting and blocks in the near vicinity. At this junction was a Caribou Habitat Zone Sign. Absolutely no recreation vehicles it stated. I carried on in the truck into a logging show, bunchers, evidence of loading and activity everywhere. Most obvious is the large swaths of trees down and the well defined skid trails and roads everywhere on the mountain side that could really offer some superhighway action for the wolves should there actually be a caribou in the 200 mile vicinity of this operation....I am thinking to myself..."I dont mind logging, I grew up in a logging family...but what kind of horseshit hypocrisy is this anyway?"

Sorry for the rant....i am getting fed up with Land use both commercial and private in BC. You can literally build a damn and fuck up steelhead run, take a dump in the damned stream, throw garbage in it, milk it with a totally genetically mixed up hatchery and rebuild the process from scratch over and over in the lower mainland of BC, but go north of hope and you better not step over a deactivated line on a logging road which most of our families built or you will piss off all the fat "socialists" living on Quadra island counting their fat stacks....

Alpine brother, you have nailed it. Most of this crap comes out of what I call the "province of Vancouver" .

Spot on!! I have had a call out to the person who shepherded this whole thing through development, trying to just get a clear decision that I can reference if (when ) I am challenged on this out in the woods.... nope. no answer. no call back. Nada. Nobody in any agency has any idea or wants to find out, with the exception of one really awesome gal at the local Ministry of lands, forests, and natural resource bureaucracy who really thought she knew the answer I needed, until I pointed her at the vague and conflicting info on various Government websites...
I have the Restricted plate, commercial registration and have decided to just go down and bring my registration and pay for a ORV plate (18$) and run it with both plates until they decide if they are punched or bored.

As of yesterday at 1600 pacific time, I had the a snow cat registered in British Columbia. It falls under a "commercial" weight category, and is registered as "Off Road Vehicle". It is plated. Cost to do so: $100.00. (Next year will be half.) Is what it is, and it is done. There will always be something else. I don,t care about plating and registering. I care about land use, versus land closure. I want to be able to access. My money is not going to that issue in these plates and registration fees. The good news is its snowcat season!

$100 obviously doesn't insure it?

Mine is an odd tale too. I run a Jeep on tracks. In the summer, it's on tires and plated with insurance. In the winter, it carries the same plates and insurance but I've been told that if it's on tracks then the insurance is void. So although I follow the rules that are made and the vehicle remains legally plated and registered, I don't have any ICBC insurance. It's a bit of a conundrum.

it would seem that civil servants are paid to not think on their own
or make sensible decisions

$100 does not insure it. Correct. Apparently, ICBC will not insure tracked vehicles...from what i have heard. I asked the ladies at the insurance place when they told me that..`but ICBC will insure this now that i am forced to register it for travel on roads etc (plated) correct?" They danced around it abit and answered "yes?"..anyway, I didnt have time to look into it at the time. Anyone have the answer to that? Will ICBC insure tracked vehicles that we have been forced to register and choose to plate to run legally?

you always have been able to register snowcats, plate is required if you are driving on public maintained roads, which a track machine can not, same type of insurance you would get for heavy equiptment, you may be asked for proof of liability to run on crown land, which is required, so go to private insurance and see what they have, atv plates and permits are not really for snowcats, and you probally will never be checked as snowmobile trails are not really place to run your machines ,and that is probally where they do most enforcement, have you ever seen a plate on cat or excavator?

The difference this year: it was optional in the past to have much of this "equipment" registered. Plated as an option, and of course its just pure choice to insure a piece of equipment...This Off Road Vehicle Category that we are being shoehorned into is still a little strange to me still...

...The reality is that My 2000 kg snow cat falls into the same bracket as a 13 year old child's 100cc dirt bike with no lights and a "parental guidance, Drivers Licence required" program to operate...(ORV)

Although it may be "obviously" likely that running cats, out on crown land, or on the occasional logging roads to access these places may not pack as much risk of being checked by one of the authorities, when doing so outside of popular sledding areas. Ultimately I just want to be left alone, and not harassed, and even if I disagree with the regulatory process to some extent, it does matter to me to have the right stuff and be doing it within regulation. As far as I know with proper lights, and license you can operate on a maintained road (think Backhoe)...rubber tracked backhoe? ...or is it the fact that my (Snow)cat is on tracks that I am missing here? Can a wheel based UTV that is recently registered as ROV be on maintained roads if it has proper lights and a Drivers Licence etc? What about a Dirt bike with lights and operator with BC DL, can they be on Maintained roads after being registered as ROV? Its slightly confusing, and strategically so...My Snowcat would not fall under the old All Terrain categories because it was tracked, and absolutely cannot be run in summer on wheels. But conveniently fits under the Off-Road Vehicle Category (sort of)

Is there anyone that can tell us: After registering and plating...can I run my cat on a Logging forestry road that is deactivated? What about one that is active and maintained? (barring all other regulatory issues of course like areas that are designated no access/proper lights/ etc etc) Sounds about right that operating on a maintained logging road on a Sunday morning with light traffic to none that this would be legitimate but would still be a good idea to have some sort of insurance assigned to the machine as well as liability..?..$$$