• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Driving in the UK on Vacation? ~ DON'T DO IT!

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Ok folks, we just got home. I put 1800 miles on a rental car (Audi A4) with a GPS navigation system and all I can say is that if you are planning on going to the UK and you are planning on driving around the country, then please reconsider! Driving on the WRONG SIDE of the road, on narrow country lanes, is not only confusing but it is stressful.

We had a GREAT vacation. People were friendly. The weather was not as bad as we expected but it was generally cooler than we anticipated, summer weather in much of the UK is roughly 60 to 65 degrees during the day, we are more used to 80 to 90 degree summer temperatures. Consequently we purchased some additional sweaters and were glad we brought light jackets. But all that said, the driving sucks.

ROUNDABOUTS are idiotic. I've posted that before, but there is no way to underestimate the confusion some of them cause as it is common to encounter MULTIPLE ROUNDABOUTS that are strung together with about 300 yards between them. I encountered one set that had 4 "roundabouts" in a row, but is was not uncommon to find them in pairs or in a series of 3. A roundabout is basically a 3, 4 or 5 way intersection. They are typically marked with 1 sign in advance and then each of the possible exits is marked, but at an odd angle making viewing it difficult. Also many of these things have 2 or 3 lanes and if you are in the wrong lane you may find yourself going around in a full circle so you can get back to the turn you missed (happened to us 2 or 3 times).

The roads are so damn narrow that they are absurd. Seriously dangerously absurd. MANY of the rural bridges are 1 lane wide but on 2 way roads, encountering another vehicle is more common than you'd suspect on these roads. MANY of the rural roads ("B" class roads) are so narrow that you must pull off the roadway when you encounter oncoming traffic and both cars end up with 2 wheels off the pavement . . . some of these roads were too narrow to allow passing because STONE WALLS were built right to the edge of the road and 1 car would have to back up to a wide spot.

Here in the US we figure about 1 mile per minute for travel time when going any modest distance. In the UK, figure more like 1 mile for every 2 to 3 minutes. So while distances are modest, travel times are MUCH longer than you'd anticipate.

"M" class roads are their version of our "interstate" highways, but they have higher speeds, shorter approach ramps, and narrower lanes.

Did we have fun? Yup. But driving really was fairly unpleasant most of the time, downright scary sometimes, and don't even try to park . . . that topic could be its own thread!
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
GOLD Site Supporter
Did you clip any side mirrors? haha!!
I hear ya Bob.
It took me months to get used to being on the opposite side of the car, never mind on the other side of the road!
Yeah.. roundabouts.. absolutely crazy!!!
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
No, I never clipped one. But I own 2 cars here in the US that are European cars, both have 'retractable' side mirrors. I never understood why anyone would ever retract the side mirrors and have never retracted my mirrors (on purpose) here in the US. In the UK you NEED to retract them to fit into parking spaces!

The Audi A4 that I rented is a BIG car over in the UK. That same model is the SMALLEST Audi imported in the US and is considered a compact car here. Even driving a tiny Audi A4 over there I often wished I had a smaller car, especially when driving into the tiny rural towns like Tenby or Fishguard (Wales) or the old cities like Edinburgh (Scotland) or York (England).
 

BoneheadNW

New member
Bob-
Years ago Mrs. Bone and I rented a car in Scotland and drove around for a week. While it was a bit confusing at first, I would not have wanted to travel throughout the countryside any other way. I did the driving and the wife did the navigating (I would have sucked navigating) and while we did have a stressful moment or two, it was worth it. Yes, the roads can be narrow. Yes, we were forced a time or two to pull way over or back up, but I don't see how we could have accomplished what we did any other way. Do you think you are a bit spoiled by the "government controlled" roads here in the U.S.?:poke:
Bonehead
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well I agree that we could not have accomplished what we did any other way, but I would also say that without at GPS system then we could not have managed either. I purchased a 2" thick, and very detailed, road atlas of the UK but that did not help much.

As for our government controlled roads, what I found is that their government controls far more than ours and their roads suck! The private road in front of my house is not wide enough to qualify as a county road where I live, it is 2' narrower than the minimum standard, but it is TWICE as wide as some of the roads in Wales.
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
GOLD Site Supporter
I purchased a 2" thick, and very detailed, road atlas of the UK but that did not help much.
.
Yep, I had an A-Z(ed).
Looks like nothing more than page upon page of colourful spaghetti..:mrgreen:
Welcome back Bob.. it's nice to hear all about your holiday over there.

Something tells me you'll be going back one day.
It's easy to fall in love with everything about the United Kingdom, 'cept for the driving.:smile:
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
Bob, I find your recount very amusing. I guess its just normal to us.
Roundabouts are great when you know how to use them. Once you understand how they work they are wonderful, seems like a much better idea than an intersection to me, as you don't have to cross the path of any traffic, just peel into and out of the flow of traffic. I can see that if you are unsure who to give way to and who gives way to you then you could find it frustrating.

You did come on what has been quite a cold year. The last 2 weeks were into the high 80's/90's. I dont think it rainted too much for you though.

I've never driven on an M road, 80% of my driving is on single tracks. A few % on dirt or grass tracks.

The small roads are alot less stressful I find, and you get to see some really nice scenery. Just don't go fast or you'll end up in a ditch :D

Please post more stories of your vacation, I'm enjoying reading them.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Jim, initially I did not understand the right of way in a roundabout, but I did a bit of reading early on and realized it is very similar to our system of yielding to the traffic on the right. That said, I did figure it out, I still say the concept sucks!

As for the stressful roads, to me the M roads had the least stress. The A & B roads varied depending on where they were, some were fun to drive others were a total pain in the rear. I found most of the stress in the villages where even the GPS system would get lost.

I would say that if you spend 20 years driving on ANY nation's roadways and then go to another nation that is radically different then ANYONE would find the roads stressful. What is amazing is how radically different our road systems really are.

Oh, and as for the "really nice scenery" well please don't take this the wrong way, but you are a liar!!! And I say that in the most respectful way I can. Go to Wales and drive on those single track roads . . . they have 8' tall rock walls built along both sides of the road, you can't see a damn thing!!! I mean you seriously can't see a damn thing!!! But Wales is sort of like a different planet, it is very different from what I encountered in England or Scotland.

I've not yet had a chance to even begin downloading my pictures, but I will probably get to that in a few days. There are more stories to tell. BTW as for weather, we had 3 weeks of "cool" weather, average temps in London were in the low 60's. Scotland was mid-60s. Wales was mid-60s but 2 days that warmed up nicely into the low/mid 70's. York was 60 to 85, depending on the day!!!
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Bob,

If you would have driven the Roundabouts like a normal person you might have enjoyed them. :hide:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nijZZfjHGdw"]Bob Skurka Driving[/ame]
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
AH Bob, consider it one of life's experiences. If every country was like the US, there would be absolutely no point in going abroad. And remember, all the major nations of the world drive on the left hand side ... Japan, Britain and Iceland. I think that just about covers it. :mrgreen: Round-a-bouts in the UK were introduced in order to help insurance companies to raise their rates. Once you go round one three or four times you can usually find your exit.

Glad that you're back.
 

daedong

New member
Thanks Bob you know how to make one nervous. I have not driven in a city for 6 months, driving around here there is not even a stop sign, and you could count on one hand the number of cars you see in a day and I lob in LA and pick up a rental car an hour later. And on the opposite side of the road , OMG, I need to go to the toilet.

I'm glad you got back OK
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Vin, do yourself a favor and get a rental car with a GPS system!!! The US roads are generally, but not always, laid out in a 'grid' pattern so they are actually fairly easy to navigate. The UK roads seem to follow the natural curves of the earth, the ancient roman roads, or the meandering path of a drunk . . . sometimes all 3.

As for driving on the American roads, I actually imagine they are probably like driving on your roadways (except we drive on the correct side). Every photo or movie of the roads in OZ that I recall show them to have wide roads, plenty of straights and good views. That is the exact opposite of the roads in the UK.

Yes, driving on the wrong side of the road is odd. It is hardest to do when you make a turn, are in a parking lot or some other maneuver when you are not following traffic. I had to constantly remind myself, even up to the last day I was there, that when I changed roads I had to go to the 'wrong side' of the road to continue.

First day I got back I hopped in my car at the airport and driving was just like normal again. However I will admit that when I pulled out of my driveway to go to church on Sunday my daughter mentioned that I drove about a 1/4 mile on the wrong side of the street. No problem on my little road, there is no traffic to speak of, but she realized it before I did so it shows that you must stay alert of the side of the road you are driving on!
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
One thing I forgot to mention is that drivers in the UK really seem to follow their road rules . . . something I wish American drivers would do!

For example, on the M roads, the left lane is the 'slow' lane, the middle lane is a 'faster' lane and the right lane is the 'passing' lane. Except in congested areas, the only cars in the left lane were cars that were actually passing cars that were in the middle lane. The cars in the middle lane were consistently going faster than the cars in the left lane. Drivers seemed very aware of the use of the lanes and, unlike our drivers, they yielded to faster traffic and they did it promptly.

I have to give credit where credit is due, the Brits have polite, alert drivers who follow the rules of the road . . . even if their roadways are all backwards!!!
 

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
SUPER Site Supporter
Except in congested areas, the only cars in the left lane were cars that were actually passing cars that were in the middle lane. The cars in the middle lane were consistently going faster than the cars in the left lane.
:confused: Is this a trick question?
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
:confused: Is this a trick question?

No that was just me being confused by the roads in the UK :huh:

It should read "Except in congested areas the only cars in the right lane . . . "

Their right lane is the FAST/PASSING lane. Their left lane is the SLOW/MERGE lane.
 

BoneheadNW

New member
Drivers seemed very aware of the use of the lanes and, unlike our drivers, they yielded to faster traffic and they did it promptly.

I have to give credit where credit is due, the Brits have polite, alert drivers who follow the rules of the road . . . even if their roadways are all backwards!!!
Sounds like "road rage" is not as big a problem in the U.K. as it is in the states. Imagine that- not being gunned down because someone felt you cut them off!
Bonehead
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Can one imply from this that cell phones aren't allowed when driving?
I believe it is against the law to "talk and drive" while holding a cell phone, but I also believe it is legal to use a "hands free" device. I'm not an expert on the UK driving laws, there are still some road signs I have no clue about:neutral:

Sounds like "road rage" is not as big a problem in the U.K. as it is in the states. Imagine that- not being gunned down because someone felt you cut them off!
Bonehead
Most road rage simply results in a sound beating!
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
The small roads are alot less stressful I find, and you get to see some really nice scenery. Just don't go fast or you'll end up in a ditch :D
Mith, got to call you a liar again. You won't end up in a ditch, at least not in Wales or Scotland, you end up in a weed covered stone wall :sad:

Here are a few photos. These are VERY TYPICAL of the roads we encountered in Scotland and Wales. It should be pointed out that these are 2 way roads with oncoming traffic!

I love the fact that they post caution signs at some of the roundabouts, I guess they even realize these things are nuts! And then there was the roundabout in the parking lot at one of the places we visited!!! The Brits love their roundabouts???
 

Attachments

  • P1050469.jpg
    P1050469.jpg
    41.5 KB · Views: 122
  • P1050647.jpg
    P1050647.jpg
    47.2 KB · Views: 128
  • P1050708.jpg
    P1050708.jpg
    36.8 KB · Views: 125
  • P1060200.jpg
    P1060200.jpg
    42.3 KB · Views: 130
  • P1060201.jpg
    P1060201.jpg
    29.8 KB · Views: 124
  • P1050470.jpg
    P1050470.jpg
    48.5 KB · Views: 125

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Typical road in a typical town in Scotland or Wales. Just like the rural roads in the photos in the prior post, I'm showing everyday common roads, not exceptions, but the rather the rule.

This is a wonderful (?) pair of photos.

Notice the difference between these two? You'd think I was taking a picture of the street in the quaint little town, but actually I'm taking a picture of a wide street in a little town by one of the castles we visited. Again, this is VERY TYPICAL of what we found.

In photo 1 the car in front of me realizes that an oncoming vehicle has already committed to come down the road. In photo 2 the car can be seen with its reverse lights on and the car is starting to back up so the oncoming traffic can pass.

This is why it takes so damn long to get anywhere on that little island :bonk:
 

Attachments

  • P1050485.jpg
    P1050485.jpg
    31.7 KB · Views: 118
  • P1050486.jpg
    P1050486.jpg
    31.6 KB · Views: 118

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Typical road in a typical town in Scotland or Wales. Just like the rural roads in the photos in the prior post, I'm showing everyday common roads, not exceptions, but the rather the rule.

This is a wonderful (?) pair of photos.

Notice the difference between these two?
How about they just tow all those vehicles parked on the sides? There would be plenty of room.

In the other pics (1 lane roads in your previous post), we have those around me but ours aren't paved as nicely.
 

Ice Queen

Bronze Member
SUPER Site Supporter
I totally agree with all you say about Welsh roads, and just remember I drive large lorries, often with a trailer on, along these roads! Nightmare time and I have to live here! Our M roads (motorways) are not all they are cracked up to be, they tend to build them far too small in the first place, but after our local roads, they are a dream with a lorry. I shall be setting out for the Great Dorset Steam Fair in about ten days, first I have to navigate our local roads, and you know what they are like, then I get to something approaching 'civilisation' but still yukky roads with a big vehicle, then I get to the motorway and can relax a little. The inside lane is the travelling lane and the next the overtaking lane, and the outside lane is overtaking again, lorries are not allowed in this one. Cars and buses can do 70mph, but lorries are legally allowed only 60mph on motorways (but we have to have speed limiters fitted, by law and mine only allows 54mph) On dual carriageways we are allowed 50mph and on 'ordinary' roads we are only allowed 40mph. When I have negotiated the motorway section I then have to travel some reasonable roads until I get to Dorset, then the roads are very similar to ours in Wales (don't think they have the disguised stone walls though) and eventually I reach my destination. Just pray to St Jude (patron saint of lost causes?) or St Christopher for me. Also remember that the horse box (containing the snowtrac) is a high sided vehicle and they don't cut the hedgerows back so I have to watch I don't dig holes in the side of it with all the branches. Why do I put myself through this - it is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby, also I don't have a navigator and dare not use sat. nav. as it could take me along a road with a low bridge and the horse box is tall!!! You think you had problems, you only drove a small car!!!!
 
Top