Forums Forums - Off Topic Forum FUN





Go Back   Forums Forums - Off Topic Forum FUN > Snow Trac ST4, Kristi, Thiokol/LMC, Tucker, Bombardier & Other Snowcat Discussions > Snowcat Repairs, Parts & Problems Forum

Snowcat Repairs, Parts & Problems Forum Snowcat Repairs, Parts Inquiries, Sources, Problems & Advice

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-23-2017, 08:59 PM
danoneal's Avatar
danoneal danoneal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Leavenworth, WA.
Posts: 16
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
danoneal is on a distinguished road
Default Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Is there anyone out there who knows where I might find both large ST34 chain drive sprockets as both mine have broken teeth? I have found a local machine shop who can make them for me but $$$. I'm not sure if I am posting to the right place or how to but let's give it a shot. Any help would be great. Dan
__________________
Snow Shoe
1965 Snow Trac #708
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-23-2017, 10:03 PM
JimVT's Avatar
JimVT JimVT is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Enumclaw WA.
Posts: 3,107
Thanks: 3
Thanked 750 Times in 409 Posts
JimVT is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

it is kind of slow now but the subject has come up in the past.
maybe a search?? Someone must have put a us chain on it. they are hard on the metric sprockets.
__________________
Jim KF7RiN
#185 snow trac
2004 pistenbully canyon
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-24-2017, 03:15 AM
Alaska Jay Alaska Jay is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 52
Thanks: 10
Thanked 48 Times in 18 Posts
Alaska Jay is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Another option is to buy a pair of new sprocket plates and machine your original sprocket hubs and the new sprocket plates to be fit and welded to each other. It would be a simple process for any machine shop, maybe a couple hours or less of labor.

I've done it on my rear sprockets, the small ones. I converted them from original 12 tooth to 18 tooth.

Hint: If you choose a sprocket with a number of teeth divisible by 3, it will be much easier for the machinist to chuck it into the lathe, so less cost to you.

The ASE version of the sprocket pitch is 80. Use the "A" identifier for a sprocket with no hub, just a small bore. And then choose the number of teeth you want. Just a quick search for a 80A36 sprocket on eBay comes up with a 36 tooth TRITAN sprocket for $55.10 plus shipping.

Observe:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRITAN-80A36...8AAOSwlndZGy7O

Here're a couple pics of the ones I made:
Attached Images
  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Alaska Jay For This Useful Post:
300 H and H (06-28-2017), sno-drifter (06-24-2017)
  #4  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:03 AM
JimVT's Avatar
JimVT JimVT is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Enumclaw WA.
Posts: 3,107
Thanks: 3
Thanked 750 Times in 409 Posts
JimVT is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Jay View Post
Another option is to buy a pair of new sprocket plates and machine your original sprocket hubs and the new sprocket plates to be fit and welded to each other. It would be a simple process for any machine shop, maybe a couple hours or less of labor.

I've done it on my rear sprockets, the small ones. I converted them from original 12 tooth to 18 tooth.

Hint: If you choose a sprocket with a number of teeth divisible by 3, it will be much easier for the machinist to chuck it into the lathe, so less cost to you.

The ASE version of the sprocket pitch is 80. Use the "A" identifier for a sprocket with no hub, just a small bore. And then choose the number of teeth you want. Just a quick search for a 80A36 sprocket on eBay comes up with a 36 tooth TRITAN sprocket for $55.10 plus shipping.

Observe:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRITAN-80A36...8AAOSwlndZGy7O

Here're a couple pics of the ones I made:
your still running the metric chain? how many hrs and is this holding up ok?
__________________
Jim KF7RiN
#185 snow trac
2004 pistenbully canyon
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:40 AM
300 H and H's Avatar
300 H and H 300 H and H is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 5,804
Thanks: 1,787
Thanked 997 Times in 556 Posts
300 H and H will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVT View Post
it is kind of slow now but the subject has come up in the past.
maybe a search?? Someone must have put a us chain on it. they are hard on the metric sprockets.
Yes the rollers on SAE #80 are not wide enough and catch the sprocket, damaging the teeth.

Get the correct chain, and this problem will fix itself.

Regards, Kirk
__________________
Snow trac ST4 #267
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:41 AM
Alaska Jay Alaska Jay is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 52
Thanks: 10
Thanked 48 Times in 18 Posts
Alaska Jay is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVT View Post
your still running the metric chain? how many hrs and is this holding up ok?
No. An SAE 80 chain, to match the SAE 80 rear sprocket. If I experience excessive wear on the front sprockets, I may very well be doing the same job to them, no big deal. I had a guy offer to make me a custom set of rear sprockets identical to the original ones for $800. Jesus, why spend that kind of money when they can be updated to modern specs for a fraction of the cost? It cost me $60 for the new sprocket plates I used, plus whatever time I spent doing the machining. I think the new #80 chain was pretty cheap also.

I guess you'd have to be a purist to want to spend 10 times more just to keep things as they were 50 years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:48 AM
Alaska Jay Alaska Jay is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 52
Thanks: 10
Thanked 48 Times in 18 Posts
Alaska Jay is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300 H and H View Post
Yes the rollers on SAE #80 are not wide enough and catch the sprocket, damaging the teeth.

Get the correct chain, and this problem will fix itself.

Regards, Kirk
The sprockets can very easily be machined to trim the width down a tiny bit to address the issue you're describing.

How does replacing the chain fix broken sprocket teeth?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-24-2017, 07:31 PM
300 H and H's Avatar
300 H and H 300 H and H is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 5,804
Thanks: 1,787
Thanked 997 Times in 556 Posts
300 H and H will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Jay View Post
The sprockets can very easily be machined to trim the width down a tiny bit to address the issue you're describing.

How does replacing the chain fix broken sprocket teeth?
Sorry will not "fix" dinged teeth. Machining down may remove the surface hardening if a sprocket is not through hardened. Metric sprockets if you can find them, or convert both to SAE and us No 80 roller chain. Just never mix the two.

Regards, Kirk
__________________
Snow trac ST4 #267
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-26-2017, 10:28 AM
danoneal's Avatar
danoneal danoneal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Leavenworth, WA.
Posts: 16
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
danoneal is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Thanks everyone. yes I do plan to change out both drive chains not sure how old they are but it sure seems to the the major factor in breaking gear teeth. wish I had the knowlage and equipment to machine my own. Do you have the specs for the inside spline?
__________________
Snow Shoe
1965 Snow Trac #708
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-26-2017, 09:49 PM
danoneal's Avatar
danoneal danoneal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Leavenworth, WA.
Posts: 16
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
danoneal is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

I guess I would be looking for the spline size for both sprockets if I were to convert to standard size sprockets and chain. Are the small sprockets not cast like the large front sprockets?
__________________
Snow Shoe
1965 Snow Trac #708
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-27-2017, 01:25 PM
Alaska Jay Alaska Jay is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 52
Thanks: 10
Thanked 48 Times in 18 Posts
Alaska Jay is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Quote:
Originally Posted by danoneal View Post
I guess I would be looking for the spline size for both sprockets if I were to convert to standard size sprockets and chain. Are the small sprockets not cast like the large front sprockets?
The small rear sprockets are steel, the fronts are cast iron. If you really intend to have both front and rear 100% manufactured, you would be best to remove at least one of each and have them available for your machine shop to study and duplicate. Keep in mind, in addition to the spline features, there're multiple hub features that will need to be copied. There's an oil seal surface on the rear ones, and if I remember correctly, the fronts have a spacer ring that mates to the sprocket hub on the outboard side. Of course, the tooth pattern will have to be custom, for whatever chain size you'll be intending to use.

I would only leave the task of manufacturing the sprocket teeth in the hands of a VERY skilled machinist.

If you really intend to go this route, you'll be spending a small fortune just for these custom parts. I would guess at least a couple of full shifts of machining time. For a shop rate of $125/hr, I'm betting you'll have $2500-$3000 or more wrapped up in it.

I encourage you to strongly consider the simpler and cheaper method I discribed in my earlier post from a few days ago. You'd be using inexpensive, manufactured sprockets that you know will have correct industry specs, and mating them to your own sprocket hubs. It really is a simple job and will give you the same or better result. I've actually done it, and it only took a couple of hours of machining time.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Alaska Jay For This Useful Post:
nikos (06-28-2017), redsqwrl (06-27-2017)
  #12  
Old 06-27-2017, 04:18 PM
redsqwrl's Avatar
redsqwrl redsqwrl is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: E central WI
Posts: 1,534
Thanks: 287
Thanked 547 Times in 275 Posts
redsqwrl is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Alaska Jay hit it right on the head.

If you are confident that you will never want your original final drive ratio back. having the sprockets made out of the old ones is the way to go.

If you want both ranges available source out the recreated sprockets.

I am not sure I have the ability to weld those larger sprockets, FF member utah wilson has a nice documented thread with welding cracks in the sprockets it did not go well as the internal stress of the weld kept recracking, maybe baking them after welding would reduce some of that stress. FWIW I think those sprockets are cast.

Not any kind of expert just a guy trying to keep 268 and number 17 alive.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-27-2017, 04:29 PM
Alaska Jay Alaska Jay is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 52
Thanks: 10
Thanked 48 Times in 18 Posts
Alaska Jay is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsqwrl View Post
FWIW I think those sprockets are cast.
Yes, the front are definitely cast iron. The rears are carbon steel but the teeth themselves are either hardened during manufacturing, or hardened from general use. They didn't want to machine off very well. But once I got past the teeth, no problem.

Welding the front cast sprocket hubs to new steel sprockets would be a challenge, but entirely possible.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-28-2017, 05:54 PM
Snowtrac Nome's Avatar
Snowtrac Nome Snowtrac Nome is offline
member formerly known as dds
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NOME AK
Posts: 9,316
Thanks: 14
Thanked 811 Times in 548 Posts
Snowtrac Nome is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

it can be done with a high nickel rod and proper heating and cooling I found this winter another thing that breaks teeth are bad chains check for end play in the links if the bushings in the chain are worn the chain will walk up the sprocket
__________________
Don
1962 st-4
KL2ZF
Snow trac's Rule and Krustys Drool
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-29-2017, 10:29 AM
danoneal's Avatar
danoneal danoneal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Leavenworth, WA.
Posts: 16
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
danoneal is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

I did not think you could weld a cast part? But you are telling me that a steel sprocket can be married to a cast hub. And no I don't want to change out all sprockets but can I get a steel metric sprocket? the one you gave me a link to is standard but that still leaves a metric sprocket on the small end.
Dan
__________________
Snow Shoe
1965 Snow Trac #708
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-29-2017, 07:11 PM
MNoutdoors's Avatar
MNoutdoors MNoutdoors is offline
Tracked Evolution Central
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: AK.,AZ.,CA.,MN.,MT. Home of all the villes
Posts: 3,135
Thanks: 6
Thanked 581 Times in 309 Posts
MNoutdoors is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Quote:
Originally Posted by danoneal View Post
I did not think you could weld a cast part? But you are telling me that a steel sprocket can be married to a cast hub. And no I don't want to change out all sprockets but can I get a steel metric sprocket? the one you gave me a link to is standard but that still leaves a metric sprocket on the small end.
Dan
Here you go, if you buy some get the flame hardened teeth

http://www.ametric.com/s-371-minimum...-hardened.aspx
__________________
Have a nice day, NSA kind of like NASA but one less "A"
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MNoutdoors For This Useful Post:
300 H and H (06-29-2017)
  #17  
Old 06-29-2017, 07:29 PM
Alaska Jay Alaska Jay is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 52
Thanks: 10
Thanked 48 Times in 18 Posts
Alaska Jay is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Steel can be welded to cast iron with the right process.

You maybe can find a sprocket with the correct original metric dimensions but I'm not sure how they're expressed, ISO 16, I think. Do a search and see what's available.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-30-2017, 11:56 AM
nikos's Avatar
nikos nikos is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florina West Macedonia - Hellas - Greece
Posts: 659
Thanks: 829
Thanked 409 Times in 188 Posts
nikos is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

Alaska Jay.

I would only leave the task of manufacturing the sprocket teeth in the hands of a VERY skilled machinist.

If you really intend to go this route, you'll be spending a small fortune just for these custom parts. I would guess at least a couple of full shifts of machining time. For a shop rate of $125/hr, I'm betting you'll have $2500-$3000 or more wrapped up in it.

I encourage you to strongly consider the simpler and cheaper method I discribed in my earlier post from a few days ago. You'd be using inexpensive, manufactured sprockets that you know will have correct industry specs, and mating them to your own sprocket hubs. It really is a simple job and will give you the same or better result. I've actually done it, and it only took a couple of hours of machining time.
[/QUOTE]


In few years (the next decades) we would not only need to leave the task of manufacturing the sprocket teeth in the hands of a VERY skilled machinist but in a 3D Technology, 3D System industry with Printer and Scaners + manufacturing soft ware or Hard Ware (Design - engineering ) transforming and create prototype products -spare parts for our Snowtracs and Snowcats.

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/s...ratchet_wrench

The Space technology has manufactured the first 3-D printed object in space

https://www.nasa.gov/content/interna...-s-3-d-printer

Nikos
Attached Images
  
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-01-2017, 06:02 AM
nikos's Avatar
nikos nikos is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florina West Macedonia - Hellas - Greece
Posts: 659
Thanks: 829
Thanked 409 Times in 188 Posts
nikos is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looking for Snow Trac Chain Drive sprockets ST34

As we talking about 3D Printing materials, except the plastic and the polymers, there are also Stainless steel 3D Printing Materials for the 3D Gear models ( Metal Sprockets) or the Chain Drive models, frames, spare parts etc.

Metals are the strongest materials available in the market, but they are still extremely expensive. Metals include steel, aluminum, titanium, copper, silver, gold, nickel, cobalt, along with various others.

http://corporate.renault-trucks.com/...t-engines.html

http://hackaday.com/2017/01/29/light...ic-motorcycle/

nikos.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-02-2017, 04:42 PM
Snowshadow's Avatar
Snowshadow Snowshadow is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grand Coulee, Washington
Posts: 22
Thanks: 56
Thanked 19 Times in 6 Posts
Snowshadow is on a distinguished road
Default

Metal 3D printing has come along way. I just got back from Oak Ridge National Laboratory a couple of weeks ago. We were there to see how we could utilize printing for Reclamation. Current costs run between $700-$900 a cubic inch for metal. The first photo is a gear set that cannot be taken apart because each piece is printed at the same time and in place.the 3rd photo is a continuous chain for the gear set. The 4th photo is a titanium test which is basically a robot welder (that was used to print a mini-hoe). The Jeep body was printed in composite with a layer sprayed over the top, much like a self leveling paint.
Attached Images
     
__________________
-SS

St-4 #1059

Last edited by Snowshadow; 07-02-2017 at 05:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Snowtrac Drive Sprockets on CAD oilline Snowcat Repairs, Parts & Problems Forum 24 03-28-2017 09:41 PM
Bombardier 252 drive sprockets DDR Snowcat Repairs, Parts & Problems Forum 2 12-19-2016 09:28 PM
Wanted ST4B front chain sprockets chamlin1 Snowcat Repairs, Parts & Problems Forum 11 02-18-2014 01:30 AM
snow trac drive chain tension John Lumley Snowcat Repairs, Parts & Problems Forum 3 01-17-2010 09:28 PM
601 drive sprockets darryl Snowcat Restoration & Modification Projects Forum 3 10-17-2007 05:56 PM







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2017 www.ForumsForums.com