The Middle Class?

As most of you may have noticed, I don't normally get into political debates and such. I've been reading some of the comments by a number of other members that do get into this though.
I see liberal against conservative, m
ules against elephants, but that is all. Has it ever crossed those minds that just maybe the opposite side is the same as the side you're on in many respects? The most glaring similarity is the wish of either side to do away with the middle class. Before I'm branded as a wacko, read on.

The mule takes from the middle class and give to the poor. The elephant takes from the middle class and gives to the rich. It's rather apparent that none of us here are Senators/Congressmen, people of power that can make or break an entire country. On the other hand, I can't believe that we're at the opposite end of that spectrum either. Now, let's think a minute. Wonder of wonders, WE ARE the middleclass, upper or lower, really doesn't matter. We're all getting screwed from the factions on either end of us.

Guns, I don't want to live without them. I feel that is one reason why we still can still live and go wherever we wish. I relate it to the crime rate and CCW's. Ask any cop that is not tainted by politics and I'll almost guarentee he'll tell you that is one of the reasons for the drop in the crime rates. If you were a bad guy and didn't know that little granny had a gun in her purse or the console of her car, would you try to harm her in any way?

And on another thought. Fuel prices. I think we all agree that the world runs on diesel. What better way, not at this point in time, but it could be starting, to control your populace. Price it out of reach, and you know what? The middleclass becomes the lower class. Wow, now we've got a two class society. The upper caste has the guns, the fuel, the food, and everything else. Think it hasn't happened before? Read your history.

This has not been a paid solicitation by any means. It is merely the thoughts of a middleclass, middleaged, guntoting, truckdriving, tractor driving, longhaired ponytailed, fed up with fakeasses, AMERICAN, male. You can disregard him at will. eace: :14_6_12:

johnday said:

Guns, I don't want to live without them. I feel that is one reason why we still can still live and go wherever we wish. I relate it to the crime rate and CCW's. Ask any cop that is not tainted by politics and I'll almost guarentee he'll tell you that is one of the reasons for the drop in the crime rates. If you were a bad guy and didn't know that little granny had a gun in her purse or the console of her car, would you try to harm her in any way?

And on another thought. Fuel prices. I think we all agree that the world runs on diesel. What better way, not at this point in time, but it could be starting, to control your populace. Price it out of reach, and you know what? The middleclass becomes the lower class. Wow, now we've got a two class society. The upper caste has the guns, the fuel, the food, and everything else. Think it hasn't happened before? Read your history.
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John-

I can see where you are coming from. I, however, am not into guns. Never have been, never will. I am also not sure if your connection between the drop in crime and granny packin a piece is correct. A deterrent to some bad guys, I would agree, but many of these people prey on those in their own area who are also packing (such as gang wars) and that doesn't seem to stop them from blowing someone away. Also, ask a cop what one of the most dangerous calls to go on and they will tell you a domestic dispute, because many of these calls involve alcohol and weapons which oftentimes are turned on the officer.

With respect to the diesel bit, I am a big believer in biodiesel. A buddy of mine is in the process of starting his own station by producing BD himself. Once we can ween ourselves off the oil teet of the middle east, there would be no need for us to lose our boys over there just so that you and I can drive our tractors.

Gotta run,

Bone

Hi Jay! Have to agree about the cops and domestic violence. It' bad situation to say the least. I think in my area when they're called for something like that, the dispatchers are, or should be, trained to ask the caller if there are any guns or weapons. I believe they know before hand to some extent.

That's absolutely fine if your not into guns. No problem with that at all. I don't think your the kind to condemn someone if they are. I promote the ownership of guns, in responsible hands that is. The old saying that if guns..........then criminals will... has a lot of validity in my world. I wouldn't consider the gangs to be responsible in any stretch of the imagination. I've seen, and you most likely also,what gunshot can do to a person. Jan is also an RN that worked in some of the more "colorful" hospitals in Detroit. She's seen plenty too. I wish I had a solution for those problems, but don't.

I guess I'm just in the mood for this for some reason, but you can still have my beer!!

I know that it is off topic, but speaking of "colorful" and beer, where has Mith been lately? Hope he is not being a baaaaaaaaad boy!

Yeah, I have no problems with guns. Just keep them away from my kids and their friends. It is amazing what damage a 9 year old can do with a shovel, let alone a gun (it was an accident).

I'll have to pass on the brew. I have a meeting later tonight, actually it is a training session for my Special Ops team (ropes rescue, confined space, trench rescue, etc.). We are going to learn how to use petrogen torches. Wouldn't want to hack off a limb (especially my own)!

Bonehead

Be careful out there Jay. Have a good time!!!

John I will certainly agree with much of what you wrote, I do think that Don and I, while on opposite ends of the political spectrum, probably have more in common than our arguements would suggest. I also think that while I am 'managment' and you are 'union' that you and I have more in common than that division would suggest. We all, to one extent or another share many commonalities and a few differences. Some of us, like Dargo and I, probably share more commonalities than some others on the forum, we both went to the same college, both have more guns than necessary, neither of us hunt, both run businesses, both share similar political views, both pop our mouths off and are not afraid to speak out, but I suspect that we both have dozens of differences we have not found yet or we simply don't care about.

And no matter how we divide ourselves, you are correct that we are all middle class and we are all getting screwed by the government in too many ways!!!

I too am in management and John's is what we refer to as being on the dark side. Let's blame him for our high sparktricity bill and see how nice a guy he is........:rollingla.

LOVE YA MAN!

Bob, know what? I'm in total agreement with you. I had a run in today with one of our local political zealots, and I'm afraid I commited political suicide in my Union. I merely made the statement to wake up and smell the coffee, not really in those words. I just can't understand how anyone can blindly follow any faction. That's what I really like about us here, we can all rationally think. I'm used to not always agreeing with people, and that's fine. The problem arises when the opposing force hasn't the common courtesy to even take the time to "listen". To me, that's an insult I refuse to tolerate.

Have a good one Bob.

Big Dog said:

I too am in management and John's is what we refer to as being on the dark side. Let's blame him for our high sparktricity bill and see how nice a guy he is........:rollingla.

LOVE YA MAN!

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Gotta be a powerplant thing.
And all this time I thought YOU were on the darkside.

Love ya too man, but aint gettin' me Killians, I'll buy ya one of them there Millers.

Hey John,
A lot of truth in what you said. Especially that we're all middle class and on the loosing side no matter which side is in office. We either give to the poor or the rich businesses ....or more likely to both. It's the percentages that change.
Have a good evening ...and Cheers

johnday said:

Gotta be a powerplant thing.
And all this time I thought YOU were on the darkside.

Love ya too man, but aint gettin' me Killians, I'll buy ya one of them there Millers.

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Your on!!

Here's some of my experience in the liberal utopia of Canada which I fortunately left nine years ago:

1. Visible taxation of 40%. On a salary 0f $60K CDN I was paying 40% in taxes. plus 14% GST on virtually everything else. I took a different job at $42K CDN and saw no difference in my take home pay as my tax rate went down. What is the incentive to work harder? My father and sister pay over 55% in taxes.

2. Taxes on your mortgage. The mortgage on my 900 Square Foot 50 year old cabin/house was $1100 CDN a month and I got no tax write off. Most of my friends in Canada will never pay off their mortgages. They have no expectation of ever owning their homes. This is a shame. It's happening down here now too.

3. Crime. I lived 60 minutes outside of Vancouver, B.C. in the countryside. I had my little crappy trucks Mazda/Ranger were broken into 3 times. Everybody that has to park on the street has a steering wheel club and has had their vehicle broken into. Up until the age of 18 it is a free for all for kids to perform crimes. They have to do something extremely violent to actually see a juvenille prison. Growing up I had friends that would spend their weekends breaking into vehicles - there is just no penalty. You are more likely to go to jail for defending your property than if you decided to go out and start stealing stuff. Vancouver, B.C. has the highest rate of property crime in North America.


4. The underground economy. High taxes + weak enforcement. Home grown pot and meth are rampant. It is probably one of the biggest export crops out of Canada. A lot of people I knew growing up supplement their income growing, selling, or smuggling just to get by.

5. Healthcare. It sucks in Canada. I have received better healthcare in the US by far. I suffered with Carpal Tunnel in Canada for 10 years as the doctors just told me to deal with it. When I got down here the doctors did tests and said it was the second worst case they had ever seen and I had surgery within two months. My mom had to wait two years for surgery on her foot while she hobbled around in pain. There is free healthcare in the US for all children and people on welfare. Many of the people that don't have free healthcare do so by choice. Sure it is expensive if you actually make money and don't qualify for one of the government programs. But at least that is a choice. Free healthcare is generally abused to the point that the system breaks and the quality deteriorates - nothing should ever be for free. People need to pay something for anything. Even a $20 co-pay for a doctor's visit would stop a lot of unnecessary visits to primary care physicians for colds, sniffles, and other useless time wasters.

6. Guns - forget about it. The NRA is so "right" on this it isn't funny. There are tons of guns in Canada. When I was 16 I could have bought a brand new M16 - not legally of course. If the criminals want a gun they are going to get them. Don't penalize the law abiding citizen that wants to hunt, shoot for fun, of defend themselves.

Here's the REAL issue: "ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS":

http://angrygwn.mu.nu/archives/141541.php

"Jodie Wheatle, a young black man arrested in a Toronto mall crowded with families shopping. After unsuccessfully resisting arrest, officers discovered a loaded .45-calibre handgun in his possession. Not just loaded, but cocked and with a round in the chamber.
A justice of the peace looked over the multiple weapons charges, and put him back on the streets on $10,000 bail.
Three weeks later, police arrested him again. This time on suspicion of murder. A 25-year-old car salesman was shot in the head and the chest in his sales lot when Wheadle and his friends got angry over financing difficulties related to their car purchase."

Any system that doesn't encourage and require the enforcement of existing gun laws yet wants to further restrict the ability of law abiding citizens is clearly dysfunctional.

7. Liberal corruption. I'm know how all the democratic underground moonbats love to say that conservatives are corrupt. However, in Canada the liberal government is demonstrating how corruption can happen on both sides of the spectrum.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1380050/posts


Politics is an ugly subject and I tend to believe that some of us are just born to be liberals or conservatives. The key to it all is that we don't allow the special interests groups to dominate our society. There are way too many minority special interest groups that are trying to influence the lawmakers and some are better than others. It's all a balancing act.

PBinWA said:

Politics is an ugly subject and I tend to believe that some of us are just born to be liberals or conservatives. The key to it all is that we don't allow the special interests groups to dominate our society. There are way too many minority special interest groups that are trying to influence the lawmakers and some are better than others. It's all a balancing act.

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I can tell you that I became a concervative during the summer of 1974 at the age of 14. I was not old enough to drive, but I was old enough to see reality. I made an extended trip to Europe at the time. 1/2 of the trip was spent in Communist countries (it was before the breakup of the USSR) and the other half divided between Germany, Austria, Switzerland. I came home and pretty much kissed the ground.